Beginner System

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

I'm hoping over the next year to acquire the components to a decent audiophile system. I think for a turntable I've chosen a Pro-ject Debut Carbon. What would I need (or want) in the way of preamp, stereo, speakers to complete a nice little living room sound system. This doesn't need to be something that can play my T.V. audio or CDs or anything. I just want a system dedicated to quality vinyl sound.

 

[tmurnin]

Help us out in terms of budget and other limiting factors. What is the size of the room you will be listening in? Are the any aesthetic restrictions (meaning you have to have bookshelves instead of towers and/or hate the look of subwoofers, etc.) the question is just too broad as is.

 

[ImcLoud]

For the best system for low budget I would go....

USP-1 Stereo Preamp | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplif $390
UPA-200 | 125W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifi $300
PRO-JECT DEBUT CARBON TURNTABLE (BLUE) **PHOTO SHOOT** at Music Direct $360
CBM-170 SE High Performance Bookshelf Loudspeaker $330
SB-1000 - SVS $500
then add another $100 in cables and fmods (to cross the bookshelfs) and it will be a heck of a system for under $2000!!!

Now if your budget is more in the medium area I think the best system for the money is...
Same turntable, that project is amazing for the money...
The Emotiva XSP-1 Differential Reference Preamp | Emotiva Audio | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifi $770
XPA-2 | 300W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifier $800 (use the $100 card that comes with it towards the preamp so actual cost is $800)
Sierra Tower Bamboo Loudspeaker $2000
ULS-15 DualDrive Packages $2200
that would be around $6000 (don't need fmods that preamp crosses for you) and you would really never have the need to upgrade, that sounds amazing...

If your budget is really low, go with the pro-ject, a dayton apa150 amp, a pair of Ascend 200 bookshelfs, a Parts express 10"subwoofer, and a behringer preamp that will cost you around $1100...

I love a music only system, I have a few of them in my house and use them all, I also like integrating a subwoofer into the system to take care of the lows, after you get the placement correct and cross them in the rite area you will be amazed at how much sound quality you get in return for your time, it also allows you to use a smaller amplifier for your mains since you are not powering the lows.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Sorry, I realize I was being much to general. What I'm really looking for is what components do I need. Do I need a pre-amp and an amp and a stereo or will a stereo have an amp in it? I've been trying to research all this, but I'm still a little confused. I don't really have a certain room size or shape in mind right now because for the next year I'll be living in a dorm and then I'll be trying to get an apartment or small house to rent. The system will probably go in my bedroom for a few years until I'm on my own and feel safe with it in the living room. I also don't have a very specific budget. The Debut Carbon is $400 so I'm kind of aiming for that level of equipment. I guess it's fairly beginner, but still high audio quality for what you pay.

I hope this clears things up!

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Also, I don't know how many speakers I should get. I would prefer to have a sub because I like a lot of bass heavy music, but I don't know if I need a full 5.1 or 7.1 System or if something more simple will create a better sound for just music.

 

[shadyJ]

If you are making a system for primarily bass heavy music, skip 5.1 and 7.1 and setup up a 2.2, 2.3 or 2.4 system. All the extra channels in a surround sound system isn't going to help any in a music system, but the extra subwoofers will help a lot, if you can set them up right. If you are on a tight budget and do not have the tools or time to build your own cabinets, Hsu and Rythmik are some of the best sub makers out there for entry level models. If you don't have a tight budget, check out Seaton, Funk, and JTR. If you want a massive bass system and have some woodworking tools, you really ought to check out DIY kits and projects. You can setup something amazing that will destroy any any commercial sub for the same cost.

As far as speakers go, that is more of a matter of individual taste, you should go out there and audition different models, and see what you like best. You can also just play it safe and get something that measures well for the most neutral sound, and one suggestion along that line I would make is check out JBL's pro monitor line, the LSRs. There are a lot of other great choices out there along those lines though. Don't just audition the hi-fi speaker brands, also look at pro audio stuff too.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

So will a system with multiple subs like that still be able to produce a nice sound if I throw on a Louis Armstrong record or something classical?

 

[tmurnin]

You can go with a preamp/amp combo like the Emotiva suggested above or you can go with a receiver - either will suit your needs. Most people would suggest you start out with deciding what kind of speakers you want first - that's where you should spend the bulk of your money. I would try listening to several, decide what is in your price range that come back for more specific advice. I would start out with one good sub - if you feel that isn't enough, you can always add more later.

 

[shadyJ]

So will a system with multiple subs like that still be able to produce a nice sound if I throw on a Louis Armstrong record or something classical?

Yes, all you have to do is dial the whole system in. Contrary to what you might think, a multiple sub setup will cut down on boomy bass (if set up correctly). It does this by flattening out the frequency response throughout the room, but this only happens if you spread out the subwoofer placement. If you put all the subs in one corner, it is the same as having one powerful sub.

Anyway, rereading your above post, in a apartment or a dorm, you may not have the freedom to play the bass loudly, so going with one sub in a near-field placement might make more sense. Place the sub as close to your listening position as you can get it, this way you can get powerful bass without while keeping the overall output of the sub down as much as possible for the sake of your neighbors. Doing this also helps minimize the way the room acoustics interferes with the bass.

A good receiver for a vinyl system would be the Harman Kardon 3490. It has a decent phono preamp for your record player so you don't have to buy a separate one. It also has digital inputs, which is something you don't find on a whole lot of entry level stereo receivers. It is has a good amplifier that is rated to handle 4 ohm speakers, so you aren't limited in speaker selection. Add to that some decent bookshelf speakers and a sub or two, and you are set with a very nice system.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Thanks guys!

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Another question about a bass heavy system: would I need to worry about creating too much vibration and damaging my records? Even with it isolated I feel like the bass could vibrate the whole room.

 

[ImcLoud]

Yes you would only be able to play your records once and then have to switch to 8 tracks, them will last about a week and then onto cassettes, but the good news is after a while you have an ipod...

JK, it shouldn't nbe an issue, I have heard some "heavy bass" systems that had no issues with damaging vinyl...

 

[ahblaza]

I would start with this table for now, I don't think for the $ you will find a better table, arm and cartridge setup than this.
Orbit Plus Turntable Black — U-Turn Audio
You may want to expand your setup down the road (we all do) so I think a receiver (multi-channel) with built in preamp and amps on the same chassis is the way to go, also one with onboard phono stage for your table. I reco this receiver, it has a suprisingly good phono stage built in it.

Amazon.com: Onkyo TX-NR709 7.2-Channel Network A/V Receiver (Black): Electronics
So far all you have is two components but in reality you have five, phono preamp, amps, table and tuner and DSP pre-pro for HT applications and multi EQ RC software. You could buy all these components mentioned individually which will cost considerably more, you get it all in a single package. Speakers for stereo I would start with the Pioneers like these: Wait till they go on sale

Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-FS52-LR Andrew Jones Designed Floor standing Loudspeaker (each): Electronics
If you decide to expand to a 5.1 HT setup you could go with the rest of the Pioneer line-up, center and surrounds. As far as subwoofers this is a matter of what you can afford and your expextations, the money saved with the Pio 52s (these are good speakers and deserve a good sub) I highly reco PSA Power Sound Audio, somewhat above your budget I would imagine, correct me if I'm wrong., this:

POWER SOUND AUDIO — XV15 Home Audio Subwoofer
This would be a killer 2.1 stereo setup with endless expansion possibilities. The Onkyo 709 has the same phono stage (you need this for the turntable) as the higher end onkyo line of recievers. I believe you would hard pressed to find a better table, arm and cartridge combo than the uturnaudio table, the Onkyo 709, the Pio 52s (on sale a $100 a piece) and the PSA sub, your biggest and IMO the best investment in a subwoofer. You can add to this system as time and funds allow, you will not be restricted to upgrading these components just add to them.. I hope that I have given you some insight as to what options to explore and what is needed to achieve your goals, whatever they may be.
Cheers Jeff

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Jeff,

Thanks for that info. Would you take that Onkyo over a Harman Kardon 3490? What would the Onkyo give me to make up for the $100 difference?

Also, if I'm a little tight on space, would a pair of Cerwin Vega VE5M bookshelf speakers (same price as the pioneers on Amazon) be a good substitution?

 

[afterlife2]

Hi and Welcome! ahblaza gave you great advice. I would take the Onkyo because If you want later you can use it for both surround sound and Vinyl. It also has alot of power and you won't need an external amp, which he mentioned among other things. Options are always good. I'd get the Pioneer 22's over the Vega's:Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers: Electronics
Another Onkyo to consider as well: Onkyo TX-NR708 7.2-Channel 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver | Accessories4less

 

[ahblaza]

Jeff,

Thanks for that info. Would you take that Onkyo over a Harman Kardon 3490? What would the Onkyo give me to make up for the $100 difference?

Also, if I'm a little tight on space, would a pair of Cerwin Vega VE5M bookshelf speakers (same price as the pioneers on Amazon) be a good substitution?

The Pio's have a very small foot print, if you get the CV's (really small) you would need stands or mounts adding to cost and space (if you go with stands) there's your space being taken up. The HK 3490 is a stereo receiver so you would be limited to stereo listening, it does have a phono stage tho. Like Joe (afterlife) said you have much more options with a HT receiver, pre-outs and inputs if you ever decide to upgrade your speakers and need the extra amps to drive more speakers. I have the the Pio 52s and attest to their sonic characteristics, you won't be disappointed especially with a decent sub. AC4L is also a good place to buy refurbs at discounted prices. keep asking, we are here to help.
Cheers Jeff

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

So far all you have is two components but in reality you have five, phono preamp, amps, table and tuner and DSP pre-pro for HT applications and multi EQ RC software. You could buy all these components mentioned individually which will cost considerably more, you get it all in a single package.
Cheers Jeff

Alright, so going back a little bit, could you dumb this down a little bit for me? I'm not really sure what you're saying about components here.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Also, what is the difference between the two Onkyos? Are they able to handle more than one sub? I'm determined to know my stuff eventually! I want to make the most informed purchases I can.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Also also... I read that the U Turn is supposed to have a lower quality cartridge. It does look very good and more in my price range. I just want to ensure that I'm going to have a audiophile quality table that will be upgradable since I'm going to be investing so much in the full system. I realize they aren't out yet so it's hard to say for sure, but I've got lots of old vinyls of my grandparents and I want to make sure the turntable isn't going to damage any records (especially if I'm going to be investing more records). Go big or go home, right?

 

[shadyJ]

You might think about getting a record player with a digital output. Just record every record you get and use the digital recordings for casual listening. Everytime you play a record you degrade it. By listening to digital recordings, you hear the record when it is in better shape, and also your needle lasts longer as well as the records.