Because we can't have too many "budget bookshelf" threads!

[Schupo]

I've narrowed my choices down to three sets of speakers, based on recommendations and specifications. I'm choosing between:

Polk TSi100 (or TSi200 - I've only gotten to try out the 100s, but I imagine the 200s offer more bang for slightly more buck)
Behringer 2030p (the name makes me a little wary, and the price seems too good to be true)
Axiom M3 (unfortunately, I don't have the ability to try them out without buying and returning)

What would you guys recommend? I'm still leaning towards the M3s, but if I can somehow get over my bias against Behringer due to their bottom-of-the-line bass equipment, I might get the 2030s. In the interest of actually buying speakers sometime this year, I'm more interested in purchasing one of these three, unless someone can provide me with a set of bookshelves in the under $400 range with a very good reason why I should buy those instead.

Also, slightly off topic - does anyone know of any good audio stores in the northern new jersey area? Travelling to NYC is a possibility, but it's a pain. I'd love to try out some speakers before I actually take the plunge, but Best Buy is running all of the good stores out of business and only leaving the ultra high-end stores, with nothing in my price range.

 

[skers_54]

I would lean towards either the Axiom or the Behringers. I have a modded pair of the 2030s and they sound phenominal for the price. They do need a sub in order to reach the lowest octaves. IIRC, a member had both a pair of Axioms (don't remember what model) and the unmodified Behringers and prefered the Behringers. You should check out Axiom's forum and see if they have anyone in your area that would let you demo their speakers. Also check out Guitar Center. They have the active version of the Behringers on their website so there's a decent chance they have them in store.

 

[jliedeka]

It's hard to recommend a speaker without any context. What are your goals? Do you want a satisfying 2-channel system or surround system? Do you plan to use a sub? How big is your room? How far do you plan to sit from the speakers?

I don't know much about the Polk's you mentioned. The Behringer's are amazingly good for their price. The B's need a sub if you want a full sound. Also, they are probably not the speakers for you if they sit 20 feet away. To make the most out of them, they could be better if modified with better bracing.

Axiom M3s are also very decent speakers. You'll want a sub to fill the bottom end. They are probably okay for 2 channel without a sub but if you want the whole experience, a sub would really help.

Jim

 

[Schupo]

I eventually want to turn this into a full surround system, but for the time being, I'm just going to be using this as a two-channel system for listening to music at fairly close distances - nothing more than 10 feet. I had a pair of Jensen Champion 880s, and they had plenty of bass for what I needed right now. I plan on getting a decent sub down the line, but I'd rather get a nice pair of bookshelves and no sub, than mediocre fronts and a sub. My concern is entirely having something I can listen to music on.

Right now, the size of the room will be something along the lines of 12'x16', but I can't be certain - I'm moving into on-campus apartments which I haven't actually seen yet. As time goes on, I want to flesh this system out with a sub, and eventually get a pair of rear surrounds and a center. I'll probably end up using what I get now as the rear surrounds and make a solid investment into some good fronts.

skers, what modifications did you make on your Behringers? Would you recommend modding them? If so, was it difficult? I took a course in high school where I built a pair of speakers (IIRC, it was a tweeter and an 8" woofer in a rectangular, ugly-as-sin box which now lives with my parents), so I'm minimally familiar with the inner workings of a loudspeaker, but to be honest, I'm a mathematician. I don't work well with my hands.

 

[markw]

http://www.audioadvisor.com is always runnng specials on a variety of speakers and they have a very liberal return policy. It might behoove you to check it out.

Dunno about that "budget" thing, though. Sometimes you give up service for a cheap price.

Audio Connection in Verona is a great place to shop for the premium blend. John Rutan is a great guy and will actually spend time talking to you. You want to make an appointment, though. If you want their great service, walking in is always risky. But, don't expect the brands and prices you'll find in big box stores.

 

[Seth=L]

The Behringers have been proven through measurements.

 

[Tomorrow]

We've compared a lot of budget speakers out here. To my ears and most others in our shootouts, nothing has whipped Yamaha speakers for quality sound and value. Clean, flat frequency response, nice extension, lack of cheap-speaker-sibilance, dynamic.

For a decent, inexpensive 3-way, go with the NS-6490 (which outperformed the Behringers in our tests). For a smaller, slicker looking bookshelf, I'd heartily recommend the NS-333. Perhaps later you can fill out your surround system with Yamaha's excellent performing floorstanders for the front mains...the NS-777.

These can be found at the Audioholics store (which price matches and has other add-ins) or quite a few other online sources for bargain shopping.

Happy hunting.

 

[Seth=L]

which outperformed the Behringers in our tests

What tests where these? They didn't do so hot in the audioholics speaker shootout. I'd listened to them before and remember them sounding nice, but not very accurate speakers.

 

[Schupo]

What tests where these? They didn't do so hot in the audioholics speaker shootout. I'd listened to them before and remember them sounding nice, but not very accurate speakers.

What's more important? Sounding nice, or being accurate?

 

[Tomorrow]

What tests where these? They didn't do so hot in the audioholics speaker shootout. I'd listened to them before and remember them sounding nice, but not very accurate speakers.

Seth,

I think you mis-recall the budget speaker shootout thread. (I was there.) The Yamaha NS-6490 was the top selected speaker during A/B comparing, and was also the cheapest. The Behringers scored only a tiny bit better in individual listening scores, but as I stated, the Yammies were the prefered loudspeaker in the final shootout. Remember, the listening scores were given by the participants to a given speaker when compared to another unknown and sometimes quite inferior speaker. The 4 top scoring speakers, which included the Behringers and the Yamaha NS-333, as well as the NS-6490, were finitely close in total scoring, but the NS-6490 held the edge in important categories relative to overall, prefered performance. These top 4 were then blind-cross A/B tested. In the head to head comparison, the Yammie topped the Behringer consistently. This was the winner.

For reference, here's the link...
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/budget-bookshelf-shootout-2009

EDIT: Allow me to make two personal comments about these recommendations. Loudspeaker quality is very subjective. The OP should definitely audition as many as he can within his budget...then make his own selection. With regards to this discussion, I don't believe the OP could do wrong ordering the Behringers or either of the Yamahas about which we've spoken. In that the Yamaha's are cheaper AND have more access to inexpensive floorstanders for later surround system expansion, causes me to recommend them over the Behringers (which I think make fine near-field monitors).

 

[dkane360]

i have the behringer 2031p's and i love them. the only difference between the 2030 and 2031 is that the 2031 has a larger woofer.

 

[Robof83]

Not to long ago we had a blind listening test in which the Behringer 2030p competed.

The other contenders were the Aperion Intimus 5b(we didn't have the 4b even though thats probably a better comparison), Infinity Beta 20, Polk M10, Definitive Technology Mythos Gem, Logitech Z300(We needed more speakers and had these lying around), Bose Companion 3(Same).

For Music the order of preference was

Aperion Intimus 5b
Behringer 2030p
Infinity Beta 20
Definitive Technology Mythos Gem
Polk M10
Bose Companion 3
Logitech Z300


For Movies the order of preference was slightly different

Aperion Intimus 5b
Infinity Beta 20
Definitive Technology Moythos Gem
Behringer 2030p
Polk M10
Bose Companion 3
Logitech Z300


I don't know what it was that made everyone like the Behringers so much less for movies, for me I guess I could say they just didn't seem to get as loud during the parts that were supposed to be loud.


Tomorrow, I just read your speaker shootout and am now very curious how those Yamahas would have stacked up in our test. I've always been quick to overlook Yamaha in the past when looking for speakers, but I guess I won't be so quick overlook them in the future. I'll admit I've never actually a pair of Yamaha speakers, I had been writing them off simply because of word of mouth.

 

[Tomorrow]

Not to long ago we had a blind listening test in which the Behringer 2030p competed.

The other contenders were the Aperion Intimus 5b(we didn't have the 4b even though thats probably a better comparison), Infinity Beta 20, Polk M10, Definitive Technology Mythos Gem, Logitech Z300(We needed more speakers and had these lying around), Bose Companion 3(Same).

For Music the order of preference was

Aperion Intimus 5b
Behringer 2030p
Infinity Beta 20
Definitive Technology Mythos Gem
Polk M10
Bose Companion 3
Logitech Z300


For Movies the order of preference was slightly different

Aperion Intimus 5b
Infinity Beta 20
Definitive Technology Moythos Gem
Behringer 2030p
Polk M10
Bose Companion 3
Logitech Z300


I don't know what it was that made everyone like the Behringers so much less for movies, for me I guess I could say they just didn't seem to get as loud during the parts that were supposed to be loud.


Tomorrow, I just read your speaker shootout and am now very curious how those Yamahas would have stacked up in our test. I've always been quick to overlook Yamaha in the past when looking for speakers, but I guess I won't be so quick overlook them in the future. I'll admit I've never actually a pair of Yamaha speakers, I had been writing them off simply because of word of mouth.

Thanks for the quick review, Robof83. These kinds of shootouts are just plain fun to do. Sometimes they're a lot of work and can be expensive...but one learns a lot. I'd enjoy hearing more from you.

Doing blind listening tests and running a couple of performance tests can tell a lot about the truth and fiction that runs rampant on the internet. Word of mouth seems to carry a lot of weight.

I was like you....Yamaha?! Gimme a break. I dismissed them out of hand. But I was dead wrong when it came time to actually do some testing. These are great value loudspeakers. (Please know that I currently own Aerial Acoustic, and some classic JBL, Infinity, and ACI loudspeakers. I have zero investment in Yamaha speaker performance.) We recently compared the NS-777 with a couple of more expensive speakers...and Yamaha won that comparo, too...albeit in a first place tie with one of my favorite classic speakers. These 777's were one-fifth the price of their competition. Pretty amazing.

There used to be a member on this forum...I think he hasn't visited in quite some time...named Yamahaluveur (sp?). He extolled the virtues, particularly of the more classic models like the NS-1000. Everyone kind of humored him. But this guy knew stuff we didn't. I'll now wager that those are outstanding speakers.

Lastly, because Aperion is an Oregon (my home) company, I wanted to like the 4B much better than I did. But sadly it wasn't up to the competition of the two Yammies or the Behringer.

 

[fredk]

And in another recent comparison the Axiom M2 bested the Aperion 5B.

Tomorrow, I'm jelous. I would love to participate in a shootout like that.

 

[fredk]

What's more important? Sounding nice, or being accurate?

Funny thing is that in proper blind testing the accurate speakers score the best.

From the measurements I have seen, those Behringers measure unbelievably flat for the price. I would love to hear them some time.

 

[bandphan]

i have the behringer 2031p's and i love them. the only difference between the 2030 and 2031 is that the 2031 has a larger woofer.

please explain other than the woofer size

 

[Critofur]

Funny thing is that in proper blind testing the accurate speakers score the best.

From the measurements I have seen, those Behringers measure unbelievably flat for the price. I would love to hear them some time.

I found these for $189 per pair shipped. So I got a pair, hoping to listen to them soon. It's B & H that has them for that price (includes free shipping).

Thread may be old, but, that price sure seems hot so I thought I should mention it...

 

[dkane360]

I found these for $189 per pair shipped. So I got a pair, hoping to listen to them soon. It's B & H that has them for that price (includes free shipping).

Thread may be old, but, that price sure seems hot so I thought I should mention it...

There are mod's which fix some small manufacturing errors if you are interested in them. Just searching B2030p mod on the forums should get you the link. I also retract my statement from a while ago, as it was brought to my attention that there were other differences such as impedence, tweeter size, woofer size and crossover point.

 

[jp_over]

link & instructions

There are mod's which fix some small manufacturing errors if you are interested in them. Just searching B2030p mod on the forums should get you the link. I also retract my statement from a while ago, as it was brought to my attention that there were other differences such as impedence, tweeter size, woofer size and crossover point.

I had these on file from earlier postings.

Please note - the following is NOT MY WORK/write-up so I can't answer questions about the procedure:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63343

"One very low cost alternative for 5.1 speakers that will perform remarkably well is the Behringer 2030P. They are about 130/pair. So, get 3 pairs and have an extra one. It is a very high quality speaker, ironically, better than most that cost 5x - 7x as much; I kid you not. It does need some very minor fixes to correct for standard mass produced shortcomings. Here is the list(15 minutes of work per speaker):

1) Replace internal acoustic stuffing with more material and a higher grade material(ideally 4-8 lb/ft^3 density rockwool board or fiberglass board). If you can't easily get it, I will mail some to you for very low cost(the stuff is CHEAP) if you are in the USA. PM me for details.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-530
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-330



2) Fix vibrating metal can magnetic shield on woofer. Use liquid(NOT gel) super glue and squirt some generously around the seam where the can meets the driver - this will stop the vibration.


3) Fix air leak number 1. On the tweeter, where the tweeter motor connects to the tweeter faceplate, there is no seal between them. Use plain silicone sealant and squirt around the seam, being sure to also squirt around the base of the electrical leads.

4) Fix air leak number 2. On the plastic waveguide around the tweeter, there is no seal where the tweeter connects to the waveguide. Remove tweeter from the waveguide (4 screws on the back) and use bluetack, rope caulk or speaker gasket puddy; flatten with your fingers and place small amounts on the ridges of the waveguide where it connects to tweeter. Re-mount tweeter and tighten screws. Scrape off excess putty on the front that squeezes out with fingernail.

While this speaker is super low cost, it has far better linearity and off axis response than most that cost far more money[1]. It has 1.25" MDF front baffle, 0.75" MDF cabinet, MKT film caps, very high power iron core inductors(as opposed to the small ones normally used in low cost speakers that easily saturate at low power levels), cast frame woofer and relatively low distortion even when used at 100dB(assuming an active crossover is used to limit LF, of course).

You can not DIY a speaker that has similar over all performance for cheaper(including drivers, cabinet, all costs, etc.)."

 

[mardelgo]

Check Jamo C 403 0n sale now