Banning the term climate change won’t stop the reality

[haraldo]

Still wrong, again.
I was comparing the 4.5 billion year old planet and its fluctuating temps, to the extremely short duration of Al Gore's "Rapid Rise" graph that you've been hanging your hat on.
The sample size is too small when compared to 4.5 Billion years.
It's nothing more than a guess.
They never, ever measured The Rate of change over 4.5 Billion years to see how it compared to Gore's miniscule, cherry picked "Rapid Rise" snap shot.

Rickster, I really don't understand your point of looking all the way back to the 4.5 billion years history of the earth. If you look way back in time what we are seeing now is only ripples on the surface ....

In the early days, the earth was literally bombarded with asteroid hits, comets, all kinds of nasty things that rippled and shattered the planet to its core; Extremely violent, but a necessity. Some of these hits gave us water, all the water on the oceans come from these external sources.... This was a hard time to the planet, but a necessity for life as we know it.

250 million years ago, the earth was shattered by a volcano that was active for one million years. this eruption, called the Siberian Traps, killed 90% of the life on earth, the climate changes and consequences from this event alone is probably beyond comprehension. It took 30 million years for life to get more or less back to normal after this, and we do still have late consequences from this event... like significant amounts of methane in the atmosphere. It's suggested that the Siberian traps was triggered by an extremely big asteroid or meteor impact, but no proof of this has been shown.

65 million years ago the dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteorite impact that changed the environment to an extent that life ceased for the dinosaurs.

Norwegian astronomers claim there have hypernovas in some galaxies that within a minutecreleases so much energy that they may wipe out any life throughout a significant part of a galaxy, I have read that statistically this will happen every some billion years...

I do suggest that what we are seeing now is insignificant compared to some events through the history of earth, but what we are seeing now may be significant enough that the environment may subsequently change so much that we may make it extremely uncomfortable for ourselves.

Life will go on, the earth will go on .... There are voices claiming that we may make the human race extinct if we go on the way we do, maybe this is a reasonable thinking .... At the least, I believe that we will make it a really uncomfortable place to live if we don't stop these things ....

 

[KEW]

how's about LGBQTA-made?

You lost me with the A!

Asexual?
Alternative?
Aorta fetish?

 

[haraldo]

Again agreed. China, India, USA are largely responsible for the current state of crisis. WE should be the majority contributors to solving it and helping 3rd world countries adapt. Ironically ALL of the 3rd world countries I've visited over the last decade are far more in tune with climate change and trying to do their share at reducing their carbon foot print. It is always amazing for me to see people of meager economic means be so in touch with mother earth.

Look to the Australian aboriginals, whose attitude is that they just borrow mother earth for the short period of time that they are here....

My brother worked his whole professional career in the oil industry, and he showed me some shocking evidence from his travelling through Azerbaijan.
He showed me the pictures of areas where Petro Canada was doing their work, and there was no environmental changes or impact that you could see...
He showed me the pictures of where Gazprom was doing their work and left, there was literally open rivers of crude oil flowing in the nature and large areas were lifeless, nature was completely ra$$d

It is my brother's claim that western and eastern oil companies live in diametrical opposite worlds, and I do believe this is a credible claim; Still this does not mean that the western oil companies are behaving like angels, my brother has to say this as he works for them

But still.... russian companies are probably the worst, literally shown by Gazprom

 

[Rickster71]

Rickster, I really don't understand your point of looking all the way back to the 4.5 billion years history of the earth. If you look way back in time what we are seeing now is only ripples on the surface ....

In the early days, the earth was literally bombarded with asteroid hits, comets, all kinds of nasty things that rippled and shattered the planet to its core; Extremely violent, but a necessity. Some of these hits gave us water, all the water on the oceans come from these external sources.... This was a hard time to the planet, but a necessity for life as we know it.

250 million years ago, the earth was shattered by a volcano that was active for one million years. this eruption, called the Siberian Traps, killed 90% of the life on earth, the climate changes and consequences from this event alone is probably beyond comprehension. It took 30 million years for life to get more or less back to normal after this, and we do still have late consequences from this event... like significant amounts of methane in the atmosphere. It's suggested that the Siberian traps was triggered by an extremely big asteroid or meteor impact, but no proof of this has been shown.

65 million years ago the dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteorite impact that changed the environment to an extent that life ceased for the dinosaurs.

I believe there have been proven to be hypernovas in some galaxies that in a flash of a second releases so much energy that they may wipe out any life throughout a significant part of a galaxy, I have read that statistically this will happen every two billion years...

I do suggest that what we are seeing now is insignificant compared to some events through the history of earth, but what we are seeing now may be significant enough that the environment may subsequently change so much that we may make it extremely uncomfortable for ourselves.

The references to the earth's history is insignificant, if you ask me, we must look at what to do now.

Life will go on, the earth will go on .... There are voices claiming that we may make the human race extinct if we go on the way we do, maybe this is a reasonable thinking .... At the least, I believe that we will make it a really uncomfortable place to live if we don't stop these things ....

My point of looking back 4.5 billion years, was in response to Gene's post. He mentioned that earth has never experienced such a "rapid rate" of rise in temps as we have now. My claim is that we'll never know, since the rate of change can't be known in all of 4.5 billion years.

I agree with your post. The earth has always been changing.... before and after life on the planet.

The problem as I see it, is that NASA and NOAA and the EPA are headed by political appointees. They do not represent objective independent science.
I'm not a climate denier, I'm a Political Propaganda denier.
All this is to prop up a billion dollar Carbon Credit Industry: http://www.cnbc.com/id/32540966

 

[haraldo]

same here, my wife totally off gluten. Yet if you go to France or Italy, the gluten is still far more tolerable b/c of less GMO's and better crop diversity.

If you should happen to be in Rome, I sugges you visit Cafe Greco
Really nice place, and with a history .....
The café was named after its Greek (Greco in Italian) owner, who opened it in 1760. Historic figures including Stendhal, Goethe, Bertel Thorvaldsen, Mariano Fortuny, Byron, Franz Liszt, Keats, Henrik Ibsen, Hans Christian Andersen, Felix Mendelssohn, Morrissey, Wagner, Levi, María Zambrano and even Casanova have had coffee there ....

 

[Hobbit]

Last night I was watching Cosmos. Neil deGrasse Tyson said, “Some claim evolution is just a theory, as if it were merely an opinion. The theory of evolution, like the theory of gravity, is a scientific fact. Evolution really happened.” For scientists, it’s not up for debate.

I thought this was pretty relevant, and true. There are many evolutionary changes that incurred within humans over the last couple of hundred years.

This is all pretty simple to me, if it looks like sh!t, smells like sh!t, I'm not going to wait until after I step in it to find out for sure it is sh!t.

Because there are a handful of scientists who don't believe it's all caused by humans we shouldn't do anything? We know why climate changes occurred in the past by natural events that we can correlate to. Is there something else that we don't know of yet causing a rise in green house gasses? If this simple chemistry is too difficult and controversial, how do things like antacids work? Car battery? LED/LCD displays? Preservatives in our foods? How do we make our IC's that power our audio equipment? I guess those are just theories by scientist that may, or may not work, depending more on someone's political or religious beliefs or wants. This isn't the X-Files.

 

[haraldo]

Also, what's the current thought there on Russia?

Again, thanks for the videos.

My pleasure

You know my thoughts on russia, don't you mate?
My thoughts on russia are not good ......
(It's why I refuse to use capital R)

 

[Chu Gai]

Is the net effect of the cures worse than the illness?

 

[haraldo]

Is the net effect of the cures worse than the illness?

How can this be?

 

[TheWarrior]

My home state of WI just became the second the ban the words, "climate change."

I think humanity has 100 years before we render this planet uninhabitable...

 

[Chu Gai]

How can this be?

Earlier in this thread, I indicated that Obama stated he was instituting policies that would curb greenhouse emissions by an amount he had once committed to to the UN. The net affect according to one website was an estimated cooling of one thousandths of a degree. These policies come at a cost to the consumer. Right now, it seems all economies are fairly fragile. Europe is finding their previous policies WRT decreasing their military capabilities to fractional levels to feeling somewhat insecure in light of Russia's actions. Hence, there is talk and plans to reverse that which will cost.

Where is the money going to come from to make a truly tangible impact in the reduction of greenhouse emissions? Will people willingly support reductions in services, benefits, to do this in a timely manner? Greece sure won't. We already know Russia, China, and India could give a sh!t. All the lives we save, the lifespans we increase, talk of living to 100, 150, and beyond, the never ending population increase, counteract existing and proposed efforts. This suggests that the reductions that need to be effected are woefully insufficient.

But economists are of the general position that for healthy economies, population needs to increase. The Japanese, which seems to be the only country that has anything close to a ZPG, is feeling the internal effects on their economy hitch aren't positive. They want more babies and are looking to stimulate the populace to get it on.

So really, what changes can an is the world able to make that really does anything?

 

[KEW]

My home state of WI just became the second the ban the words, "climate change."

I think humanity has 100 years before we render this planet uninhabitable...

That is scary! Do you know why they might?

I mean, Fla's economy depends on attracting retirees and real estate values. Rising sea-level is an expensive proposition. Banning terminology is ridiculous, but at least there is clear motivation.

I don't see a parallel with WI, but don't know that much about their concerns.

 

[Hobbit]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/05/travel/the-wonder-list-chamonix-alps-bill-weir/index.html

A skeptic says there are glaciers growing. Which he's implying there can't be global warming. I guess he found his poster child.

Yet, the data suggests:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/himalayan-glaciers-growing.htm

I like this too, myths:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

and more interesting in-depth data (which confirms the above):

http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/

BTW, has anyone seen chasing ice?

 

[Chu Gai]

Climate change seems to be affecting people in Florida in peculiar ways.

http://www.oddee.com/item_99289.aspx

 

[haraldo]

If you look to Vived Wadhva's talk:
At the rate solar is advancing at the moment, within 16 years from now, we will be able to generate 100% of the earth's energy needs from solar power, and the cost of solar power will be 1/100th of what it is today, and that's from solar energy alone

 

[Chu Gai]

Is that a consensus opinion?

 

[markw]

If you look to Vived Wadhva's talk:
At the rate solar is advancing at the moment, within 16 years from now, we will be able to generate 100% of the earth's energy needs from solar power, and the cost of solar power will be 1/100th of what it is today, and that's from solar energy alone

I have no papers to fall back on but that statement seems pretty far fetched.

 

[Chu Gai]

Indian Prime Minister Modi, demonstrates his country's commitment to global whatever and states yoga can aid in the fight. Could it be that the interest in yoga, as evidenced by Lululemon's success in selling yoga tights, is effectively combatting climate change?

Certainly, Modi's efforts are sure to provide for a bright future for the people of his country. What could go wrong?

 

[TheWarrior]

That is scary! Do you know why they might?

I mean, Fla's economy depends on attracting retirees and real estate values. Rising sea-level is an expensive proposition. Banning terminology is ridiculous, but at least there is clear motivation.

I don't see a parallel with WI, but don't know that much about their concerns.

Because Walker is the Koch brother's presidential nominee, and this, just like fracking and Keystone XL are all republican initiatives. If the people of this country were to believe that our extreme consumerism and thirst for oil were causing these problems, then profits would plummet.

Kind of like health insurance companies....

 

[Chu Gai]

You mean that Hollywood which is largely left leaning and into this whole oil is bad thing is going to lead the fight against rampant consumerism? Cage, Streisand, Spielberg, Lucas, Damon, Affleck, Paltrow, Pitt, Jolie, DiCaprio, Clooney, etc. are going to lead the way? No more 100K+ gift bags, no more multiple homes, heated pools, private jets, designer clothing, private chefs, multiple cars? Bush, Clinton, Gore, and soon Obama will downsize their lives? Maybe we can have the State control the means of production and consumption.