Bad day to be a terrorist

[highfigh]

It's not that simple.

They were still in a terrible position after WWI- Hitler promised prosperity, among other things. Why would they not want him, rather than the Kaiser, who got them into that position? Hitler was a failed soldier, his broken mind caused him to need to be seen as much more than he was and he was charismatic enough to get people to go along. Hatred of the Jews is 2000 years old and with German/Polish relatives who were born between 1900 and the late-1920s, I heard plenty about that. One uncle was talking about someone and then added -"...one of my favorites, a Jew". I decided that didn't seem to be the appropriate time to mention my Jewish girlfriend. I had always heard that my grandfather's family didn't speak with him after he married my grandmother and as he was originally from one of the most strongly Catholic cities in Poland, our guess has been that she had Jewish ancestry. One of my cousins had her DNA tested and came back with enough Ashkenazi to show that our GM was, in fact, Jewish. That religious-based hatred of a parent makes absolutely no sense, to me. They were all devout Christians and I heard a lot of comments through the decades that told me some of them were hypocrites.

That doesn't mean some of them didn't fight or contribute during WWII, but it definitely took the shine off of some of them, for me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And now we see what religion has brought the world.

 

[Trell]

And now we see what religion has brought the world.

>>>Religion is a by-product of fear. For much of human history it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn’t killing people in the name of god a pretty good definition of insanity?<<<

A quote by Arthur C. Clarke

Religion is a by-product of fear. For much of human history it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn’t killing peo...

www.goodreads.com

 

[jinjuku]

Israel is willing to have peace with surrounding countries, but I don't think they - well, Netanyahu's government anyway - is interested in peace with the Palestinians. They'd prefer regular dustups with Hamas to a united West Bank and Gaza.

I would encourage you to go perform a bit of due diligence wrt the Camp David and Oslo Accords and then come back and make your above statement.

Israel demonstrated time and time again that they will give up notions of ancestral claims on 'homelands' in exchange for official recognition (both simply to 'exist' on planet Earth, and as a nation), and peace.

They legit had right to claim the entirety of the Sinai Peninsula and simply keep it. They didn't. They've made other concessions to the Palestinians but if Arafat was to say yes his own contingent would have drug him through the streets.

Palestinians could have had peace 70 years ago.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The stupid thing is that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions, with far too much in common to claim that they aren't but just like siblings, they can disagree ALL THE EFFING TIME.

Narcissism of small differences - Wikipedia

You're right- Muslims didn't always fight for revenge- at first, they were the aggressors with "Join, or die" with some being allowed to live, but suffering heavy taxation. They deny details in the other two because they say their interpretations are incorrect, even though Muhammad wasn't born until more than 500 years after Christ and a couple of hundred years after the New Testament.

How many need to die in the name of religion?

Christianity teaches that Jesus was 'King of the Jews'. A bit ironic, I think, that they found so many reasons to hate Jews as much as they have. I was raised Catholic but haven't practiced in more than 50 years- I can't align myself with the BS they caused/created and perpetuate. Shiites and Sunni Muslims fight to the death, Jews, Muslims and Christians do the same and many are actually related, but hatred is stronger than blood.

It may have been an isolated place and period, but the Jews in Spain appear to have prospered under the Moors.
History of the Jews in Spain - Wikipedia

 

[jinjuku]

And, keeping Palestinians in purgatory is unacceptable. I certainly don't have the answer, but the status quo is untenable.

Uh, the Palestinians are the ones that made sure the current state of affairs is the status quo. How can you be putting this on Israel. They've said yes to almost every good faith, externally brokered, effort.

 

[jinjuku]

The stupid thing is that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions, with far too much in common to claim that they aren't but just like siblings, they can disagree ALL THE EFFING TIME.

You're right- Muslims didn't always fight for revenge- at first, they were the aggressors with "Join, or die" with some being allowed to live, but suffering heavy taxation. They deny details in the other two because they say their interpretations are incorrect, even though Muhammad wasn't born until more than 500 years after Christ and a couple of hundred years after the New Testament.

How many need to die in the name of religion?

Christianity teaches that Jesus was 'King of the Jews'. A bit ironic, I think, that they found so many reasons to hate Jews as much as they have. I was raised Catholic but haven't practiced in more than 50 years- I can't align myself with the BS they caused/created and perpetuate. Shiites and Sunni Muslims fight to the death, Jews, Muslims and Christians do the same and many are actually related, but hatred is stronger than blood.

This is overly simplistic. There is a large tribal nature to this. The Lebanese civil war had Christians and Muslims in alliance vs other Christiana and Muslims. You had the Druse, Alawites, Phalangist, Shiite, Sunni, Maronites, the list goes on. All with intertwined tribal loyalties.

One of the telling examples for the Arab League loss in 1948 was that, I think I have the countries correct, Syria would go and intercept arms shipments going to it's ally Lebanon. Even then they were at odds with each other.

 

[Trell]

Uh, the Palestinians are the ones that made sure the current state of affairs is the status quo. How can you be putting this on Israel. They've said yes to almost every good faith, externally brokered, effort.

This is overly simplistic.

 

[jinjuku]

This is overly simplistic.

How?

Oslo Accords:

TLDR; Israel slows down the settlements, PLO ramps up attacks. Both parties muffed this up. Israel was clearly a more willing partner.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I would encourage you to go perform a bit of due diligence wrt the Camp David and Oslo Accords and then come back and make your above statement.

Israel demonstrated time and time again that they will give up notions of ancestral claims on 'homelands' in exchange for official recognition (both simply to 'exist' on planet Earth, and as a nation), and peace.

They legit had right to claim the entirety of the Sinai Peninsula and simply keep it. They didn't. They've made other concessions to the Palestinians but if Arafat was to say yes his own contingent would have drug him through the streets.

Palestinians could have had peace 70 years ago.

The Camp David and Oslo Accords are well behind us now. I don't believe either would have happened under Netanyahu. There was a window of opportunity to see real peace vis a vis Israel/Palestine. That just isn't in the cards now, or the foreseeable future.

As for whether Israel "legit had right to claim the entirety of the Sinai Peninsula and simply keep it", that doesn't stand on firm legal soil. While Egypt carries some responsibility for the start of the Six-Day War, Israel was the aggressor.
Six-Day War - Wikipedia
Possession by Right of Conquest hasn't been a "thing" legally, since the 2nd World War. That said, it made for a handy bargaining chip to get a peace treaty with Egypt.
Right of conquest - Wikipedia

 

[jinjuku]

The Camp David and Oslo Accords are well behind us now. I don't believe either would have happened under Netanyahu. There was a window of opportunity to see real peace vis a vis Israel/Palestine. That just isn't in the cards now, or the foreseeable future.

As for whether Israel "legit had right to claim the entirety of the Sinai Peninsula and simply keep it", that doesn't stand on firm legal soil. While Egypt carries some responsibility for the start of the Six-Day War, Israel was the aggressor.
Six-Day War - Wikipedia
Possession by Right of Conquest hasn't been a "thing" legally, since the 2nd World War. That said, it made for a handy bargaining chip to get a peace treaty with Egypt.
Right of conquest - Wikipedia

Egypt/Syria was clearly ramping up for another attack. Yes Israel robbed them of initiative just like they have robbed Hezbollah currently. Very asymmetric.

 

[Trell]

How?

Oslo Accords:

TLDR; Israel slows down the settlements, PLO ramps up attacks. Both parties muffed this up. Israel was clearly a more willing partner.

Is that TLDR; a note to yourself you forgot to remove?