Bad day to be a terrorist

[TLS Guy]

Let me add this to the mix:

Did Israeli pager attack on Hezbollah violate international law?

Israel has targeted Hezbollah members with pagers rigged with explosives. The New Arab looks into whether this violated international law?

www.newarab.com

Along with an editorial from The Guardian:

Opinion | The Guardian view on Israel’s booby-trap war: illegal and unacceptable — Guardian US

Editorial: Benjamin Netanyahu’s hold on power depends on his nation being at war. The region is paying a high price

apple.news

I had seen some other conversation about use of booby traps and international law. Again, I do not claim expert status, but the key aspects are, did Israel do enough to distinguish between civilian and combatant casualty. Either way, with claimed civilian casualty, one can argue they did not…
This attack is absolutely treading a very fine line of legality, and is quite frankly ethically wrong even if not technically illegal according to the agreement Israel is a signatory of.
I’ve studied ethics, including that as applied to war. It’s a sticky mess no matter how you slice it.
However, booby traps that affect non-combatant citizenry are clearly proscribed by law. Thus one could argue that Israel is now acting as a terrorist state.

Please understand, this is not my stance. I just hope to further the conversation. Clearly there are many who think Israel is right to do whatever they deem necessary. Others, not so much, to the extent some even side with Hamas over Israel as it regards the attack on Oct.7: SOMETHING I DO NOT SUPPORT AT ALL.

You don't have to like or agree with my questioning this, but I'm not going to just stand put and say this is OK, simply rubber stamping Israel's actions.

I've admitted that this is something I'm struggling with as a matter of course. I'm a little surprised more people aren't having trouble with this as well.

I think that yesterday's attack was targeted as the fighters had been issued with those devices, but there was some collateral damage.

Today's Walkie Talkie attack is a different matter. These devices blowing up have caused horrendous injuries. There are widespread fires in cars homes and apartments. Although the number of devices is lower than yesterday, the damage is apparently colossal.

The injuries to the Iranian ambassador are much greater than reported yesterday. He has lost one eye and has severe damage to the other.

We do not know where these latest devices to blow up were made. This is all something new in the history of warfare.

Israel says this is a new phase in the start of the war. There is early evidence that they are preparing and invasion into southern Lebanon and may well be intent on wiping out Hezbollah, or at least trying to.

So, now I think there is a serious danger of this becoming a wider war and drawing in Iran. I suspect this may also make the Houthis of Yemen more aggressive. Due to their location that would be a big problem for the west. I hope plans are made to occupy Aden should that be required.

 

[ryanosaur]

I think that yesterday's attack was targeted as the fighters had been issued with those devices, but there was some collateral damage.

Today's Walkie Talkie attack is a different matter. These devices blowing up have caused horrendous injuries. There are widespread fires in cars homes and apartments. Although the number of devices is lower than yesterday, the damage is apparently colossal.

The injuries to the Iranian ambassador are much greater than reported yesterday. He has lost one eye and has severe damage to the other.

We do not know where these latest devices to blow up were made. This is all something new in the history of warfare.

Israel says this is a new phase in the start of the war. There is early evidence that they are preparing and invasion into southern Lebanon and may well be intent on wiping out Hezbollah, or at least trying to.

So, now I think there is a serious danger of this becoming a wider war and drawing in Iran. I suspect this may also make the Houthis of Yemen more aggressive. Due to their location that would be a big problem for the west. I hope plans are made to occupy Aden should that be required.

One of the first things you target in a military operation is the communications network of your enemy. It is said Israel moved about 1000 troops from what sounds like a specialist unit to the North.

Another report I saw indicated that Hezbollah was updating battery packs in their walkie talkies and this was how the attack was set up (possibly), as the walkie talkies were not new like the pagers.

On the ethical note... if pagers were also distributed to non-combatants in the hezbollah political wing... in other words civilians... this is OK?

 

[mono-bloc]

These devices blowing up have caused horrendous injuries.

Should be more of it.

 

[GO-NAD!]

As I wrote earlier in the thread I think the Israeli military response to the massive terrorist attack is excessive.

That said there is a crucial difference: Israel will not commit genocide because they will not but Hamas does not commit genocide because they cannot.

When I hear people say "Israel is committing genocide in Israel", my response is that if Israel actually wanted a genocide, it would have happened by now and there would be no Palestinians in Gaza. That said, I think the Israelis' rage against Hamas has made them blind to collateral deaths and damage. The sense I get is that while they aren't deliberately targeting civilians*, they just won't let the presence of civilians dissuade them from firing on Hamas fighters, innocents be damned.

*I have no doubt that there are individual soldiers and/or units knowingly firing on civilians.

 

[highfigh]

I don't think there is much to like about what has transpired in the middle east over the past year. But, of all the acts of violence that have occurred, this may be the one that I have the least problem with.

Only one year?

I think reports today make it clear that Israel is behind the pagers blowing up. Mossad probably did all the work. No one really doubted that. But we will never know why they did this.

The real question I have is who ordered this to happen now? I doubt if Mossad leaders wanted to squander their efforts in such a way. I think the orders came from Netanyahu himself to keep his diseased coalition with the Ultra-Orthodox splinter parties from falling apart. That coalition may not have instigated the Oct 7 attacks from Hamas, but they are responsible for the disastrous war that followed.

Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman said:

Netanyahu et al. merely reminded us that Sherman had it right.

"Brought war into our country"????????????????? Name a place where war has never existed.

However, when religion enters the picture, peace is impossible.

Hezbollah has vowed revenge for this- who attacked on Oct 6?

The "who started this?" question, going back to the beginning of any kind of documentation, is impossible to answer. If they decide to call it a draw and start at zero, won't last long because someone always creates conflict. Then, people outside of the conflicts take sides and it blows up, literally and figuratively, so any kind of lasting peace is unattainable.

 

[highfigh]

When I hear people say "Israel is committing genocide in Israel", my response is that if Israel actually wanted a genocide, it would have happened by now and there would be no Palestinians in Gaza. That said, I think the Israelis' rage against Hamas has made them blind to collateral deaths and damage. The sense I get is that while they aren't deliberately targeting civilians*, they just won't let the presence of civilians dissuade them from firing on Hamas fighters, innocents be damned.

*I have no doubt that there are individual soldiers and/or units knowingly firing on civilians.

Palestinians are being used by other countries (Iran)- it's not just one group- Muslims are fighting for revenge, Israel is fighting for its existence.

 

[highfigh]

I think that yesterday's attack was targeted as the fighters had been issued with those devices, but there was some collateral damage.

Today's Walkie Talkie attack is a different matter. These devices blowing up have caused horrendous injuries. There are widespread fires in cars homes and apartments. Although the number of devices is lower than yesterday, the damage is apparently colossal.

The injuries to the Iranian ambassador are much greater than reported yesterday. He has lost one eye and has severe damage to the other.

We do not know where these latest devices to blow up were made. This is all something new in the history of warfare.

Israel says this is a new phase in the start of the war. There is early evidence that they are preparing and invasion into southern Lebanon and may well be intent on wiping out Hezbollah, or at least trying to.

So, now I think there is a serious danger of this becoming a wider war and drawing in Iran. I suspect this may also make the Houthis of Yemen more aggressive. Due to their location that would be a big problem for the west. I hope plans are made to occupy Aden should that be required.

Hezbollah was originally funded by Iran- they have been 'drawn in' since 1982.

 

[Trell]

When I hear people say "Israel is committing genocide in Israel", my response is that if Israel actually wanted a genocide, it would have happened by now and there would be no Palestinians in Gaza. That said, I think the Israelis' rage against Hamas has made them blind to collateral deaths and damage. The sense I get is that while they aren't deliberately targeting civilians*, they just won't let the presence of civilians dissuade them from firing on Hamas fighters, innocents be damned.

*I have no doubt that there are individual soldiers and/or units knowingly firing on civilians.

While there is much media attention on people claiming "Israel is committing genocide in Gaza [fixed your obvious typo ]". I don't believe that sentiment is in any way representative in Sweden (nor elsewhere in the democratic West I hazard).

You could try, if you haven't already, ask them what they think of Hamas targetting civilians as well as planned mass rape and sexual mutilation of women and children.

 

[Trell]

Muslims are fighting for revenge, Israel is fighting for its existence.

It's not that simple.

 

[Swerd]

"Brought war into our country"????????????????? Name a place where war has never existed.

The US Civil War, 1861-65.

Gen. Sherman led the drive from Chattanooga, TN, to the Atlantic coast, destroying Atlanta and cutting the deep south in half.

 

[Jeepers]

Has anyone wondered why Hamas were able to commit this massacre on October 7th ? Were the Mossad, the CIA and their respective governments unaware of the preparations of Hamas ? The US and Israel have satellites, drones and apparently the Israeli military and politicians ignored the many warnings of unarmed female military observation units at the border between Israel and Gaza.

Another film on Youtube telling the story of the 25 ( if I remember well) female soldiers of such a unit is not available anymore; I wonder why. 19 of them were killed on the spot, 6 were taken to Gaza from which 1 was released, 1 was killed in Gaza and the remaining 4 are still in Gaza probably experiencing horrible things...provided they are still alive.

The current Israeli government and more specifically the PM will have a lot to explain to the Israeli people.

 

[Trell]

Has anyone wondered why Hamas were able to commit this massacre on October 7th ? Were the Mossad, the CIA and their respective governments unaware of the preparations of Hamas ? The US and Israel have satellites, drones and apparently the Israeli military and politicians ignored the many warnings of unarmed female military observation units at the border between Israel and Gaza.

Another film on Youtube telling the story of the 25 ( if I remember well) female soldiers of such a unit is not available anymore; I wonder why. 19 of them were killed on the spot, 6 were taken to Gaza from which 1 was released, 1 was killed in Gaza and the remaining 4 are still in Gaza probably experiencing horrible things...provided they are still alive.

The current Israeli government and more specifically the PM will have a lot to explain to the Israeli people.

There for sure will be demanded accountability by the Israeli, and many do already. Apart from that your post reminds me of victim blaming, for surely you didn’t intend that?

 

[highfigh]

The US Civil War, 1861-65.

Gen. Sherman led the drive from Chattanooga, TN, to the Atlantic coast, destroying Atlanta and cutting the deep south in half.

Hey, thanks but how was that war "brought to our country"?

 

[Jeepers]

There for sure will be demanded accountability by the Israeli, and many do already. Apart from that your post reminds me of victim blaming, for surely you didn’t intend that?

Seriously...victim blaming ? Of course not.

 

[Trell]

Seriously...victim blaming ? Of course not.

A good thing I got that wrong about your post.

 

[highfigh]

It's not that simple.

The people of Israel were tormented and fighting was common in the Middle East before Islam- since that time, peace has been impossible. Look at who is doing what, in almost any part of the world and you'll see that it's the same problem.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Only one year?

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the period between last Oct 7th and now.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Hey, thanks but how was that war "brought to our country"?

Maybe you should ask Sherman...

 

[highfigh]

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the period between last Oct 7th and now.

Right, but how can someone have a problem with only the last year? Shouldn't we have a problem with most of history?

 

[highfigh]

Maybe you should ask Sherman...

I didn't quote him but I think it might be a bit late.