Back in the market for new subwoofer

[Gordon20Hz]

Hey everyone, so I'm back in the market for a new subwoofer at the moment but I have lost track of what is good out there for the price.

To give you an Idea of how long its been since i've purchased a subwoofer I'm rockin an old Tivoli Design 8inch. I'll post pictures as soon as it lets me (newbie here!!)

I'm looking for something that that will suit my music to movie ratio of 50:50, reach those low 20s.

What I have seen so far (and like) is kilpsch sw-110, BIC pl-200 (have never really heard much about them) Emp 10i or 1010i. as for anything else I'm just clueless. Pretty overwhelming coming back to it all now haha.

I would honestly prefer something ported, a surround made of rubber, and something that plays loud and true.

I guess with getting all that out there what are your guys opinion? Also would buying used be a bad thing? I usually take a lot into consideration when buying used so I know i'm not getting the reach around.

Will you please point me in the right direction? Thanks!

 

[j_garcia]

The budget and room size would be sort of the first things we need to know to get a better idea of where to start recommending.

Klipsch isn't the first thing I'd recommend, but AH gave the 115 a pretty good review IIRC, so it might not be a bad choice.

 

[Gordon20Hz]

The budget and room size would be sort of the first things we need to know to get a better idea of where to start recommending.

Klipsch isn't the first thing I'd recommend, but AH gave the 115 a pretty good review IIRC, so it might not be a bad choice.

sorry, I was going to put that just slipped my mind. It will be mostly used In a bedroom. about 16'x12', but I have family gatherings so during then it would be in a living room about 30x20. spending budget is like 300-450 ish, a little flexible...

Thanks, for helping me out!

 

[j_garcia]

That's big, probably not going to find something that is going to give you solid 20hz performance at $400 in a room that big unfortunately. The closest thing that's going to work for you would probably be the Epik Legend which is on sale right now with the caveat that they have had some amp issues with that particular sub. It will likely be one of the few subs in the price range to come close to handling a room that size.

Look at this thread too. The CSX-15 MkII is under $400 right now and also would probably be able to handle that room. I tested the 1st generation in my room that was probably about the same size as yours and it did well, but won't have true 20Hz extension.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/927454-post2.html

 

[jbrown15]

At that price point and the performace you're hoping for DIY would probably be your best bet. Or find something used.

 

[Steve81]

I would honestly prefer something ported, a surround made of rubber, and something that plays loud and true.

I guess with getting all that out there what are your guys opinion? Also would buying used be a bad thing?

Used can deliver good value, and some brands do offer a transferable warranty which can help alleviate concerns. You might be able to pick up something like a used SVS PB12-NSD in your price range which has honest extension down to 20Hz; anything sold in the last year or so would come with a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty while anything older would be a 3 year warranty; in both cases it is transferable. I'd expect it to do very well in a 16x12 room although in a 30x20 space it may show its limits if you're looking for very loud party levels.

 

[ImcLoud]

Thats a tough budget for that big room... you can wait for the klipsch rw-12d to go back on sale for $349 {maybe even $299}... Or stretch your budget for a vtf2 VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer I love mine and it will fill that room...

 

[Gordon20Hz]

Thats a tough budget for that big room... you can wait for the klipsch rw-12d to go back on sale for $349 {maybe even $299}... Or stretch your budget for a vtf2

I think I might just have to stop being so cheap, or find something used. Ill keep my eye out on the forums, and Craigslist.
The rw-12d reminds me of the rt-12d that thing was a looker.

 

[Steve81]

I think I might just have to stop being so cheap, or find something used.

A lot really depends on what kind of performance you're looking for. I mean, coming from an old 8" subwoofer, I'd expect something like a Hsu STF-2 to be a tremendous upgrade. It can deliver honest 25Hz extension and respectable output for under $400 shipped. I'd certainly not be embarrassed to own one, and I think it could do a great job in your 16x12 bedroom. Of course, if you come upon a gently used VTF-15H for $400, by all means, jump

 

[j_garcia]

Getting good 20Hz performance in a small room is harder than in a large room IMO, but I agree, with a 16x12 room, the STF-2 should work well and handily out perform the former sub. For when you want to use it in the big room, it isn't really going to cut it though.

 

[Steve81]

For when you want to use it in the big room, it isn't really going to cut it though.

Depends on what he's looking to do with it. He mentioned family gatherings, so if it's for a bit of low to even moderately loud background music, it'd get the job done. If you're looking for club level bass, not so much...

 

[j_garcia]

Depends on what he's looking to do with it. He mentioned family events, so if it's for a bit of low to moderately loud background music, it'd get the job done. If you're looking for club level bass, not so much...

That's true too. A VTF-1 might fit both bills for a little more cash. Set it to max extension in the bedroom and max output in the big room.

 

[Gordon20Hz]

J_garcia no doubt about it. Getting 20hz or below in a smaller room is difficult. Have to have enough room for there to be a full wavelength.

Of course, if you come upon a gently used VTF-15H for $400, by all means, jump

I need to keep an eye put for one of those! Any recommendations for other used gear forums? Haven't seen much in the classifieds here.

I think another problem of mine is I expect it to perform like the stereo in my car...

 

[Steve81]

That's true too. A VTF-1 might fit both bills for a little more cash. Set it to max extension in the bedroom and max output in the big room.

That's a good thought. That'd give another couple of dB of output capability to work with at least.

 

[Steve81]

Have to have enough room for there to be a full wavelength.

I think another problem of mine is I expect it to perform like the stereo in my car...

Some light reading here regarding those statements:
Car Audio Cabin Gain Transfer Function

One might note that cabin gain does occur in rooms, just usually at a much lower frequency than it does in a car.

I need to keep an eye put for one of those! Any recommendations for other used gear forums? Haven't seen much in the classifieds here.

AVS has a classifieds section, and Audiogon is all about used gear.

 

[j_garcia]

Well, the Cadence I mentioned before is under $400 right now (which is over $100 off) and it WILL get you 20Hz performance in-room AND be adequate in the large room, however it is not exactly going to be good on the space saving side for a smaller room. Even the CSX-12 was close to the size of my Empire, but even that one handled my large room well.

 

[Steve81]

Well, the Cadence I mentioned before is under $400 right now (which is over $100 off) and it WILL get you 20Hz performance in-room AND be adequate in the large room, however it is not exactly going to be good on the space saving side for a smaller room. Even the CSX-12 was close to the size of my Empire, but even that one handled my large room well.

This one?

Data-Bass

Not seeing 20Hz performance there... I'd also daresay the STF-2 would probably deliver more useful output in the 25-32Hz band:

Hsu Research STF-2 Subwoofer Test & Review

Using 104 dB as a midpoint, the 2M GP FR curve measured an outstanding +/- 2 dB from 25-100 Hz.

STF-2 10% THD Ground Plane 2 Meters (add 6 dB to obtain 1 meter values):

20 Hz: 74.7 dB
22 Hz: 80.9 dB
25 Hz: 91.7 dB
32 Hz: 99.5 dB
40 Hz: 98.8 dB
50 Hz: 104.8 dB
63 Hz: 106.9 dB
80 Hz: 104.7 dB

Different reviews, testing methodologies, etc, of course, but still... The CSX-15 Mk II delivers 89.7dB at 25Hz with 33.6% distortion and 93.3dB at 32Hz with 32.4% distortion. That's not exactly what comes to mind when I think of 20Hz performance. Compared to the 10% THD numbers delivered by the Hsu, they're pretty sad...

 

[j_garcia]

It likely drops off quick, but will get close enough in-room. I tested the 12MkII and it quite honestly surprised me at the output that it had; the 12 will definitely not get to 20Hz though. I did not test the 15MkII. "Near" 20Hz performance is maybe what I should have said, because it should have usable output to about 22Hz.

***Hmmm...just read the AH review of the 15MkII and they rated it small room, but the 12 did well in my room. I guess the two are designed differently. I actually noticed with the previous Mk1s that the 12 actually did have more output than the 15.

Under $400, what is realistically going to get you good 20Hz performance? Not too many outside of DIY.

 

[Jeff R.]

Depends on what he's looking to do with it. He mentioned family gatherings, so if it's for a bit of low to even moderately loud background music, it'd get the job done. If you're looking for club level bass, not so much...

IF he is looking for CLUB BASS.....Can I join the family!!!

 

[Gordon20Hz]

I keep seeing DIY, obviously I get what it is, and i've built plenty of subwoofer enclosures for cars. is it close to the same thing? minus the amp being internal?

IF he is looking for CLUB BASS.....Can I join the family!!!

Well it will also be used for music.... and I do enjoy bass... so yes please provide your input!

also one of the subs I mentioned earlier the BIC pl-200 for what it is, is it any good?