B&W 705: Disappointing

[WmAx]

I grew up on Magnepans (old MG IC's), and I think their sound is probably closer to a soft dome than a metal one.

It is not reliable to generalize about the dome materials having specific signatures. While some percentage of such devices of a particular material may have common characteristics, either presently, or established only in the past, remember that the net effect is one of frequency response in the end; which can be modified electronically.

I know that B&W isn't crap, but to my ears, they were far too bright (by which I mean elevated treble and upper mid frequencies).

It might be that we differ on how to use a speaker. I'm not shy when it comes to measurement, analysis and re-assignment/modification of sound using DSP devices. So, to me, the most important thing is a technically superb device in the first place, so far as the most important measured parameters, which the B&W speaker in question certainly fulfills. The shaping of the tonal response later is a trivial matter, really, once you get the first part right[which is the toughest].

Out of curiosity, did you find any problems in the midrange? I found that sometimes vocals sounded compressed. It wasn't so bad at lower volumes, but when I cranked it, things didn't sound quite right.

Well, as I stated, I did not like the balance of sound, but that does not matter[since the reponse is linear, thus easily modified accurately] if you use the appropriate equipment to make the simple modifications. In addition, I did not think the midrange faired to well with loud or dynamic material, due to the problems of using the midrange driver as the bass driver[with the significant movement involved]. But I would never use a speaker like this as a full range device anyways: I would use stereo subs[one near each speaker] and crossover between 80-100Hz, with a minimum 4th order slope rate, thus preventing low frequencies from being reproduced on the bookshelf-type speakers.

-Chris

 

[pigunios]

b&w 705 bright?

To jaxvon:

From my own experience with the b&w 705's I have to tell you and others here that the speakers are NOT bright! They are tonally almost perfect. They might be erring just a small bit towards bright, but that is something you can use! Not a serious flaw. What you heard on this demo meant many other things. The combo was not good, or the components and/or the cables. Judging by how you described the audioquest cables they must have been the gibraltar which are pretty good. But there are still better (or perfect I would dare say) cables for such speakers. The thing is that these speakers tell the truth about what you connect them with. And if you found the result you heard terrible I guarantee you that with a Pioneer receiver and dvd player that are not really meant for serious music reproduction the result could be even more terrible! I tried these speakers home with my system which is Musical Fidelity A300 amp, AH! Njoe tjoeb cd400 reference and wired all around with Harmonic Technology wires. Which is very important. At that time I was trying also different cables. The HT cables work best as a whole. Speaker cable, interlink, power cables. Each HT wire I was adding to the system, the sound improved becoming more refined, natural, transparent, open with excellent soundstage. I tried also Audioquest cables which are quite good but couldn't match the result of the HT's. Actually no other reasonably priced hiend cable can match them to my opinion. Everything else I tried with the 705's was missing something. Some cables were giving terrible results as well. Or sounded more grainy and less natural. And I tried HT cables with more speakers, not just the 705's! And the result was everytime similar. Musical purity with minimised distortion and grain.
Also my cd player that has the siemens E288cc tubes althought is quite detailed, it has smooth high's. The A300 amp has a perfect tonal balance with low distortion and grain. I'm not saying I have the best components, I'm sure there are better out there. But what I'm saying is that the synergy counts more than the parts. If you make a bad combination with the 705's you will hear the results. Terrible!
It seems that you do like some things about b&w speakers just as I do, judging also by your mixed feelings in that audition. Don't forget also that bad recordings cannot hide from these speakers. They will sound what they are, and worse with wrong components and cables. I just say that either you have to find another speaker that you think suits your taste, but try it in your system! Because an audition at the store will sound quite different with different room and system. Or give the b&w 705's a different combination. And because of personal experience I tell you: don't waste your time with time with sub-standard cables. They make a BIG impact to the sound. For better or worse. You can't go wrong with HT wires. With many others, including some fancy brands, you can!
But you try things out yourself and trust your ears! But try to biwire speakers like the 705's. Or if you don't, never use the metal jumbers! They add to this 'terrible sound' experience! Better use a decent jumber cable, preferably from the same brand (even better: the same wire) as the speaker cable.
Also the 705's like the cdm-1nt's sound better (more refined) with the tweeter grill off! It seems that this cover creates distortions and sibilance.
If you must have other speakers and want this kind of openess, detail and soundstage, then you could also try AVI's neutron-IV and Pro-9, or Epos speakers, or Audiophysics to name a few. The AVI speakers seem to be the most monitor like sound, very neutral but they are also very detailed and honest so matching needs good care, just as with the b&w's. And each speaker has it's own strengths.
I hope my opinion helps some people that are at the look for such speakers.
Cheers

 

[Sheep]

I love this,

Everyone who is yelling at jaxvon,

Your arguing over a difference of opinion.

Example

Joe: I love steak, its the best food ever.
Shmoe: WHAT Your wrong, steak is terrible, it tastes like garbage.

Another example

Bob Gandorf the 23rd: Blue is the greatest color ever. I see a red door and I want it painted blue.

Rick Thornstick: Blue? Blew?!? BLOO!?! Whats wrong with you. Everyone knows that all red doors should be painted purple, as it is the best color in the world. Donatello the ninja turtle wares a purple ninja mask, DUH!


see where im going?

By the by, nice review Jax.

The Sheep

 

[jaxvon]

To jaxvon:
Blah blah, you're wrong, blah blah, expensive cables make a difference, blah blah.
Cheers

Thanks for the kind words Sheep. And by the way, the AQ cables were Volcano, NOT Gibraltar. Either way, it wouldn't make a difference. The fact is, the sound of the B&Ws were not good to my ears. Did anyone not notice that this was a COMPLETELY subjective review? Every comment I made was prefaced with, "I thought", "I heard", etc.

The purpose of this review was to give people my opinion. Chances are, there's someone else out there with the same listening tastes as me that was considering the B&W speakers but now might have a better idea of how they'll sound to him/her.

 

[Sheep]

Thanks for the kind words Sheep. And by the way, the AQ cables were Volcano, NOT Gibraltar. Either way, it wouldn't make a difference. The fact is, the sound of the B&Ws were not good to my ears. Did anyone not notice that this was a COMPLETELY subjective review? Every comment I made was prefaced with, "I thought", "I heard", etc.

The purpose of this review was to give people my opinion. Chances are, there's someone else out there with the same listening tastes as me that was considering the B&W speakers but now might have a better idea of how they'll sound to him/her.

Damn you, you have 2 chicklets....I have catching up to do.

Well put my 18 year old bretheren(typo)

The Sheep
EDIT: Do not give out chicklets red or green, unless deserved. There is no joking around here.

 

[pigunios]

matter of taste indeed

Thanks for the kind words Sheep. And by the way, the AQ cables were Volcano, NOT Gibraltar. Either way, it wouldn't make a difference. The fact is, the sound of the B&Ws were not good to my ears. Did anyone not notice that this was a COMPLETELY subjective review? Every comment I made was prefaced with, "I thought", "I heard", etc.

The purpose of this review was to give people my opinion. Chances are, there's someone else out there with the same listening tastes as me that was considering the B&W speakers but now might have a better idea of how they'll sound to him/her.

Well I was only offering my own experience and opinion as well. I'm not trying to correct anybody. If you like or dislike something when you hear it yourself that's the most important thing. Whatever makes you happy people.

Cheers

 

[pigunios]

"Originally Posted by pigunios
To jaxvon:
Blah blah, you're wrong, blah blah, expensive cables make a difference, blah blah."

By the way that's not what I'm saying. Is what you like to hear...your self only. But if you would listen other people's opinions also now and then perhaps you could learn and understand a thing or two.
Isn't that what reasonable argument is for? To learn and understand from each other's differences and experiences? Or do we love only to hear that we're always right? The honey to our ears?
Well it doesn't matter because sound is largelly a matter of personal taste anyway. I'm out of here.

 

[Sheep]

"Originally Posted by pigunios
To jaxvon:
Blah blah, you're wrong, blah blah, expensive cables make a difference, blah blah."

By the way that's not what I'm saying. Is what you like to hear...your self only. But if you would listen other people's opinions also now and then perhaps you could learn and understand a thing or two.
Isn't that what reasonable argument is for? To learn and understand from each other's differences and experiences? Or do we love only to hear that we're always right? The honey to our ears?
Well it doesn't matter because sound is largelly a matter of personal taste anyway. I'm out of here.

Really? "I have to tell you and others here that the speakers are NOT bright!"
Sure sounds like you were telling him they are not bright. Its one thing to offer an opinion, but if he heard them, anything you have have to say is irrelivent. He heard them, and used high quality listening material, and listened for 30 minutes. The speakers were broken in, and using high quality electronics, and sufficient cables.

If you like them, thats great, and im sure they are an excellent loudspeaker. He didn't say everything about them sucked. Just cool down, relax, throw on some Bob Marley and mellow out Its all about the music, and what you like.

The Sheep

 

[jaxvon]

Oh, and by the way, the reason I even mentioned the AQ cabling was because of this. For those of you who read the article, you would've gotten a little chuckle out of it.

 

[pigunios]

Really? "I have to tell you and others here that the speakers are NOT bright!"
Sure sounds like you were telling him they are not bright. Its one thing to offer an opinion, but if he heard them, anything you have have to say is irrelivent. He heard them, and used high quality listening material, and listened for 30 minutes. The speakers were broken in, and using high quality electronics, and sufficient cables.

If you like them, thats great, and im sure they are an excellent loudspeaker. He didn't say everything about them sucked. Just cool down, relax, throw on some Bob Marley and mellow out Its all about the music, and what you like.

The Sheep

You are absolutely right my man. It's all about the music. And don't worry. I'm chill. I just wanted to explain why the speakers are not bright, because of the combination. But maybe I didn't do that correctly because I was enthousiastic of the results. For that I apoligise. But if you could notice better, what I said is that it doesn't matter how high quality the components are. They must gel with the speakers. Is the most fundamental truth in mix and match audio. Synergy. That's the magic. Because there are always slight differences of sonic signature between parts. And I kept mentioning the cables because without them my system didn't gel with these speakers. The HT's have a rich, full, smooth tonal balance (but still very transparent with huge soundstage) which make the SLIGHT weaknesses of these speakers vanish. My components are basically neutral. As a result the 705's leanish character becomes more balanced. Bass is fuller and deeper. Voices fuller and natural. Treble only serves a wonderful soundstage with no harshness.
Did you notice what else I said? "But you try things out yourself and trust your ears!" Does that sound to you like trying to impose ones opinion? I didn't think anybody was yelling to jaxvon.

More people in this thread and many more elsewere had different results as well. Doesn't that make it relevant for other people that might be interested in these speakers? At the end is important that we try out things and see what we like. Just don't do the same mistake I use to make to dispose quickly speakers or components with the first hint of nastyness. It takes much more than just 30' of brief listening.

Enjoy the music

 

[Sheep]

You are absolutely right my man. It's all about the music. And don't worry. I'm chill. I just wanted to explain why the speakers are not bright, because of the combination. But maybe I didn't do that correctly because I was enthousiastic of the results. For that I apoligise. But if you could notice better, what I said is that it doesn't matter how high quality the components are. They must gel with the speakers. Is the most fundamental truth in mix and match audio. Synergy. That's the magic. Because there are always slight differences of sonic signature between parts. And I kept mentioning the cables because without them my system didn't gel with these speakers. The HT's have a rich, full, smooth tonal balance (but still very transparent with huge soundstage) which make the SLIGHT weaknesses of these speakers vanish. My components are basically neutral. As a result the 705's leanish character becomes more balanced. Bass is fuller and deeper. Voices fuller and natural. Treble only serves a wonderful soundstage with no harshness.
Did you notice what else I said? "But you try things out yourself and trust your ears!" Does that sound to you like trying to impose ones opinion? I didn't think anybody was yelling to jaxvon.

More people in this thread and many more elsewere had different results as well. Doesn't that make it relevant for other people that might be interested in these speakers? At the end is important that we try out things and see what we like. Just don't do the same mistake I use to make to dispose quickly speakers or components with the first hint of nastyness. It takes much more than just 30' of brief listening.

Enjoy the music

I apologise for not reading through your whole response, as I was sold on what I was looking for in the first line The reason I said yelling is that you had exclamation marks in your post. Using emoticons can help change the tone of your message. I know where your coming from on system sinergy, and I agree. I have only had one stereo though, and all my speaker match, so I've never experienced upclose any other senarioes.

Sheep

 

[MDC]

What about floor standing 700's

Jaxvon, or anyone else, have you had a chance to listen to the tower speakers in the 700 family (703, 704)? Do you hear the same brightness or does the additional bass give the speakers more balance?

 

[jaxvon]

I didn't get a chance to hear the floorstanders. I see you live in Michigan...didn't you send me a PM asking about the shop I listened at? It's the same one where I checked out the Phase Tech speakers, the Stereo Shoppe on W. Stadium in Ann Arbor.

 

[MDC]

Hard to Hear Over 110,000 Screaming Fans

I did, thanks again for the info. I'm hoping to get there some Saturday when the kids don't have soccer and there is no UM home game!

 

[jaxvon]

You might want to call them. I know they have late hours during the week for people like you (I think open till 8 or 9).

Here's the Address and Phone Number for the Stereo Shoppe:

2335 W Stadium Blvd, Ann Arbor, MI
(734) 663-3600

 

[Pat D]

Well, I listened to the B & W 705 again a couple of days ago. While I still liked them, unfortunately for them I had just come from a session of listening to the Paradigm Signature S2, projects a more seamless soundstage and is altogether smoother. Now there is a first class speaker! While I have some others on my audition list, I doubt I shall find something better.

I also listened to the Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor, much more expensive and a very nice speaker. Not better than the Paradigm Signature S2 at 40% of the price, IMHO, however, and in fact I prefer the S2.

I haven't heard any Phase Techs. If one wants a mini-monitor, I still like the PSB Stratus Minis somewhat better than the 705 because of its more forgiving balance. It also has a deeper bass response.

 

[toquemon]

Hi, Jaxvon:

I read your review and i think you're right. B&W speakers are bright, but some people like it. I see you, like me, prefer soft dome tweeters and it's a matter of personal taste. I strongly recommend you Dynaudio speakers (Focus 220 and Focus 140). Theese speakers are incredibly sweet in the highs and very open in the mids; soundstage is huge even with the Focus 140 (bookshelf). Their construction quality is implecable.

They're expensive, I know, but i'm possitive you'll fall in love with them.

 

[tbewick]

I've only ever used the B&W DM601's and thought they were superb.

I'd like to defend B&W speakers. They aren't bright, they are accurate. If the original recording is excessively bright, which is often the case, then they will reproduce this accurately. B&W speakers have and still are widely used in the best recording studios because of their accuracy. For example, the classic B&W 801's were used almost exclusively by classical music recording studios through the 80's. I'm sure the latest 801's are just are popular as reference speakers.

If you give them some well recorded material (try playing a few classical, well recorded, vinyl records or some good quality classical CD's) then I'm sure that your B&W's will sound great.

Other speakers do sound warmer, but I would say that this is a colouration, which is strictly undesirable.

 

[jaxvon]

I realize that B&W makes superb loudspeakers. What do you think Alan Parsons mixes on? Still, the particular model I listened to was much to bright for my ears. That does not mean that the upper end 800 models have the attribute. If there were a big hump in the freqency response, they wouldn't be used as studio monitors. But as we all know, speakers for listening enjoyment are a personal taste, and I personally didn't care for the 705s.

 

[Sheep]

I realize that B&W makes superb loudspeakers. What do you think Alan Parsons mixes on? Still, the particular model I listened to was much to bright for my ears. That does not mean that the upper end 800 models have the attribute. If there were a big hump in the freqency response, they wouldn't be used as studio monitors. But as we all know, speakers for listening enjoyment are a personal taste, and I personally didn't care for the 705s.

Some people just don't get it eh?

SheepStar