Loren Camply

Loren Camply

Enthusiast
Hello,

First Post on this forum

Here is my system,
Marantz SR5010
Polk Signatures S60 mains
Polk S30 Center
Polk TC80i front high
Polk RC80i surrounds
HSU VTF-3MK5 sub

Now for my question.

After I run audyssey I go and change all my speakers to small and set the crossover to 80. My system then sounds hollow, lacking a lot of mid bass. this is true for both music and movies. Cranking the sub up does not help fix it either.

Now if I go back to audyssey default front and center are large. front crossover is 40 and center is 60 I regain most of the mid bass and my system sounds great.

I am just wondering if this is normal or am I missing something? Every review I read says to set my speakers to small and crossover @ 80, even the HSU manual says to setup like this.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
It's probably a null in the XO region. Run audyssey and try moving the phase on the sub to different positions. Hard to say without a graph. Where is the sub in the room?
 
Loren Camply

Loren Camply

Enthusiast
It's a open room, only place WAF will allow the sub is where it is.

When I checked audyssey EQ it had a deep valley in the mid bass.

So maybe flip the phase to 180 and run audyssey again?
 

Attachments

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
It's a open room, only place WAF will allow the sub is where it is.

When I checked audyssey EQ it had a deep valley in the mid bass.

So maybe flip the phase to 180 and run audyssey again?
You wouldn't have to run Audyssey again. Just flip it and see if it makes a difference.

The first thing I want to say is, move that sub around and find a better spot. You can only eq so much and placement is king when it comes to subwoofers. Corner placement is usually not a bad choice, but the rest of your room dictates as well. It looks like you have everything jammed into a tight space, so it's not surprising you feel like you're missing something.

Every time I see a post involving a significant other refusing to work with someone so they can optimize their system makes me sad. It also makes me really appreciate my wife. If you can talk yours into letting have a little more freedom in your living room (she's not the only one who "lives" in it, right?), you might be able to vastly improve the sound. How big of an area does the room open to? A subwoofer "sees" all of the open space in a house. I ended up getting 2 VTF-3 MK5's for mine.
 
Loren Camply

Loren Camply

Enthusiast
well my wife and I are differ on our home entertainment. She would be happy with a 32" TV and a basic blu-ray player. Reason for the 4 in ceiling speakers is she does not like towers. I gave it a try but towers came back. So the space I have it what I get to work with..

I will give flipping the switch on our sunday evening movie to night.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
well my wife and I are differ on our home entertainment. She would be happy with a 32" TV and a basic blu-ray player. Reason for the 4 in ceiling speakers is she does not like towers. I gave it a try but towers came back. So the space I have it what I get to work with..

I will give flipping the switch on our sunday evening movie to night.
Please double check to make sure you have dynamic volume and LFC turned off. I think you should just follow instructions to the letter, set the subwoofer's phase to 0 deg or 180 deg as suggested only if it actually works better with that setting, disable all build in filters on the subwoofer, if the low pass filter cannot be disabled then set it to the highest frequency to minimize it's effect that could interfere with Audyssey.

Following are some guidelines:

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347563-Subwoofer-setup-and-MultEQ?page=11
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/audio-processing/68407-audyssey-multeq-faq-setup-guide.html
 
Last edited:
Loren Camply

Loren Camply

Enthusiast
So my little OCD on this took over this morning.

I closed all the doors upstairs busted out the Audyssey mic and went to town.

#1, 4" port open sub set to 1 port open as per HSU instructions and yes the valley was still there

#2 same setup and phase set to 180... oh my that was bad diped down to -18 for the peak.

#3 two ports open and phase @ 0 came out the same as #1

#4 both ports plugged sealed mode and it was a little better than #1

I have two Marantz Audyssey mic's and one Onkyo. I did the above with all 3 and still can't get rid of that valley or set my mains to small and 80.

If I get time maybe I will do something not to smart like cover the bottom speaker on the S60 or run Audyssey with my S20 and then see what I get.

Happy 4th

L
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
So my little OCD on this took over this morning.

I closed all the doors upstairs busted out the Audyssey mic and went to town.

#1, 4" port open sub set to 1 port open as per HSU instructions and yes the valley was still there

#2 same setup and phase set to 180... oh my that was bad diped down to -18 for the peak.

#3 two ports open and phase @ 0 came out the same as #1

#4 both ports plugged sealed mode and it was a little better than #1

I have two Marantz Audyssey mic's and one Onkyo. I did the above with all 3 and still can't get rid of that valley or set my mains to small and 80.

If I get time maybe I will do something not to smart like cover the bottom speaker on the S60 or run Audyssey with my S20 and then see what I get.

Happy 4th

L
You have to use the mic that came with the unit.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Below about 200 hz, the room is firmly in control of bass. A 20 hz wave is 56.5 feet in diameter, so your room boundaries will determine what you hear and what you can't as very few homes can allow bass waves to fully propagate, thus creating room modes/standing waves. Audyssey does not in any way account for this.

But there is hope! We can try working with the minimal EQ built in to the receiver and hope its band presets line up with your room modes.

Room Mode Predictions - (predictions because walls have windows and doors allowing flex, lowering the actual resonant frequency from predicted)

1130 fps (speed of sound @ sea level) / room dimension in feet = modal frequency

With acoustic measurements (1/24 octave ONLY for bass) you can confirm these predictions and get the actual resonant frequency - the center of a peak/null.

You then apply an EQ filter with that frequency, adding/subtracting amplitude to bring that modal frequency closer to the relative loudness (dB) of everything else.

Q= bandwidth, so however many hertz-wide that peak/null is, is your Q. These 3 parameters create a filter.

Your receiver may be able to aid with this, but you may have to buy a minidsp 2x4 to implement all of the filters needed. I too have an open living room and calculated 15 room modes.

As you can see, this is a bit of a rabbit hole. Hence why these 'auto setup' programs are so popular, but unfortunately most are not advanced enough to truly be automatic, as your are experiencing. But realize that a few hours of work gets you the best performance out of your setup for minimal extra cost (minidsp + mic = $180).

The choice is yours to get the best Audyssey will allow, the best your own work will allow, or pay a professional. Welcome to a market still dominated by advertising, and not by science!
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I guess I have an Audyssey question. Has MultEQ XT32 changed, is it better in new Denon AVR's vs my old 4311 ? Ive got all the updates the 4311 can have as its long in the tooth but still working.
 
Loren Camply

Loren Camply

Enthusiast
Here is one thing I am going to try when I get home from work.

The Polk S60 on it's own produces nice clean bass. with this and the HSU VTF3-MK5 I'm a little heave on the bass and Audyssey seams to be over correcting it.

Maybe I'll plug the power port and the S60 and give audyssey a try again.

Might help flatten out the sweet spot that Audyssey is over correcting. HSU says to plug the 3" port and switch to 1 port open to run Audyssey.

If that doesn't help then looks like I will just leave my speakers as large. sounds great if I just leave the Audyssey default.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Here is one thing I am going to try when I get home from work.

The Polk S60 on it's own produces nice clean bass. with this and the HSU VTF3-MK5 I'm a little heave on the bass and Audyssey seams to be over correcting it.

Maybe I'll plug the power port and the S60 and give audyssey a try again.

Might help flatten out the sweet spot that Audyssey is over correcting. HSU says to plug the 3" port and switch to 1 port open to run Audyssey.

If that doesn't help then looks like I will just leave my speakers as large. sounds great if I just leave the Audyssey default.
Most of us usually bump the subwoofer channel about 3db after running Audyssey. After you do room calibration, try that. Also after calibration try unplugging both ports and switch to eq2 mode. You'll get some more headroom and still get good bass down to 20hz. If all else fails, the only thing you can do to improve would be to move the sub to a better location. Work on the wife. Remind her it's a shared living space and you want to enjoy your system. My wife knew before we got married that I won't compromise on audio. Plus it's a pretty small thing that makes me happy. :)
 
Loren Camply

Loren Camply

Enthusiast
Most of us usually bump the subwoofer channel about 3db after running Audyssey. After you do room calibration, try that. Also after calibration try unplugging both ports and switch to eq2 mode. You'll get some more headroom and still get good bass down to 20hz. If all else fails, the only thing you can do to improve would be to move the sub to a better location. Work on the wife. Remind her it's a shared living space and you want to enjoy your system. My wife knew before we got married that I won't compromise on audio. Plus it's a pretty small thing that makes me happy. :)
Yes I already run my HSU with 2 ports open mode. That is how I ran my VTF2-MK2.

When i get home this evening I will stuff a towel in the Signature S60 power ports and run Audyssey again.

My family room is what it is, changes are hard to make with my wife.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes I already run my HSU with 2 ports open mode. That is how I ran my VTF2-MK2.

When i get home this evening I will stuff a towel in the Signature S60 power ports and run Audyssey again.

My family room is what it is, changes are hard to make with my wife.
I got good results plugging my ports. My towers came with the plugs so they were tuned for it. Not sure what you'll get plugging the S60's but it's an old tried and true trick that has worked on different speakers. Good luck!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I think it might work good. Those mains are A) up against the wall and B)the right one is stuffed in a corner and could see 6db of bass boost. In the 50-80ish range that's gonna sound a little boomy, and possibly muddy. I wonder if that's what is perceived as more bass. Or not "hollow" or lacking mid bass.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
if I go back to audyssey default front and center are large. front crossover is 40 and center is 60 I regain most of the mid bass and my system sounds great.

I am just wondering if this is normal or am I missing something? Every review I read says to set my speakers to small and crossover @ 80, even the HSU manual says to setup like this.
I don't think "normal" exists with room acoustics and how we set up AV systems. You have a nice system, but being totally honest, you have a challenging space to put it in. From the looks of it, you've done the best you could with it.

I would chalk this one up to Audyssey EQ is not a cure all, be all tool. I like going back to what sounds great and calling it a day.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I think it might work good. Those mains are A) up against the wall and B)the right one is stuffed in a corner and could see 6db of bass boost. In the 50-80ish range that's gonna sound a little boomy, and possibly muddy. I wonder if that's what is perceived as more bass. Or not "hollow" or lacking mid bass.
This is similar to another current thread I'm in with @bradymartin. I suspect bass bloat from the mains. Mine are 20" away from the wall and they get boomy in direct mode when they're uncorked. His are kinda crammed in there.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes I already run my HSU with 2 ports open mode. That is how I ran my VTF2-MK2.

When i get home this evening I will stuff a towel in the Signature S60 power ports and run Audyssey again.

My family room is what it is, changes are hard to make with my wife.
I guess most people have to deal with room issues such as room mode but to different degree. Good to know you are not giving up. Audyssey probably can still do better if you can do something to help, including what TheWarrier and Pogre suggested.
 
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