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Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
Hey everyone. Playing around with the Audyssey app and different speaker positions. I read that the app was great since you’re able to set the filter wherever you want, and room EQ over 250-300hz isn’t necessarily a good thing. This is my front L speaker with the filter set at 20khz (top) and set at 500hz (bottom).
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Now obviously I’ve got more work to do with placement given that massive dip at 100hz. But setting the filter down to 500hz makes it look as though I’m losing another 2-3 dB at each dip under 500hz. Not sure why that would be?

Also just looking at the comparison from the top, *relatively* flat result when EQing up to 20k would be considered worse than the bottom set at 500.

I ran Audyssey a couple times yesterday with a couple different front placements and it’s interesting to see how it affects BOTH before and after results. But also a huge pain to have to run Audyssey each time (although I just run 3x with the mic at the listening position vs moving it around). So I’mplanning to download room eq and get a mic. So the other question would be, if I can find and address problems using that software if there is a way to apply the software findings to the receiver?

A lot of questions I know. Just head over heels with my new hobby and curious as hell to figure everything out!
 
G

Grandzoltar

Full Audioholic
You should use at least 6 positions ideally 8 if your not against a back wall. The different positions are only a max of 2 ft from the starting Lp. The more positions the better the average. I use a tape measure be sure all measurements are a minimum of 20 inches from a back wall. measure the MLp then MLp measure 2 ft right, Mlp measure 2ft left, Mlp measure 2ft forward. MLp 2ft right forwards at a 45 deg angle, MLp 2ft left forwards at a 45 deg angle. You can go shorter than 2 ft. 2 feet is the max. This will render more accurate results
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
Well away from the back wall but, I’d done that in the past with 6 positions. It without fail has ended in awful sounding, hummy/buzzy bass. A rep had told me to try the mlpx3 and that solved that.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Well away from the back wall but, I’d done that in the past with 6 positions. It without fail has ended in awful sounding, hummy/buzzy bass. A rep had told me to try the mlpx3 and that solved that.
I always do all 8 measurements. The more info Audyssey has the better the correction can be. Like Zoltan said, take great care when measuring that you follow the pattern tightly and your mic is at ear level.

The "after' graph in the 2nd pic looks rough to me. I'd listen to both and see which sounds better to me. I actually prefer the adjustments made to my upper frequencies.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey everyone. Playing around with the Audyssey app and different speaker positions. I read that the app was great since you’re able to set the filter wherever you want, and room EQ over 250-300hz isn’t necessarily a good thing. This is my front L speaker with the filter set at 20khz (top) and set at 500hz (bottom).
View attachment 34111
View attachment 34112
Now obviously I’ve got more work to do with placement given that massive dip at 100hz. But setting the filter down to 500hz makes it look as though I’m losing another 2-3 dB at each dip under 500hz. Not sure why that would be?

Also just looking at the comparison from the top, *relatively* flat result when EQing up to 20k would be considered worse than the bottom set at 500.

I ran Audyssey a couple times yesterday with a couple different front placements and it’s interesting to see how it affects BOTH before and after results. But also a huge pain to have to run Audyssey each time (although I just run 3x with the mic at the listening position vs moving it around). So I’mplanning to download room eq and get a mic. So the other question would be, if I can find and address problems using that software if there is a way to apply the software findings to the receiver?

A lot of questions I know. Just head over heels with my new hobby and curious as hell to figure everything out!
The only way you'll get REW to apply any eq to your system is with additional gear, something like a minidsp unit, and with external amps (so fairly easy for a sub with an avr, but for your speakers....). REW/mic are still great for measuring, tho. I also wouldn't expect the Audyssey/avr graphs to be all that exact fwiw. They're approximations.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
The before graph isn't a horrible representation, I don't think, but the after graph is not "what is," rather just the ideal.
Agree that REW, as a measurement system will allow you to see all the "what is" in better detail, before and after.

You do have some pretty significant FR variation occurring above your Schroeder Frequency. So much so that you can't really see where that point is in your room. The FR should start to smooth out somewhere above 200-300Hz which is the usual spot for the Schroeder Frequency. My instinct is that you may have a very lively room with a lot of hard-reflective surfaces.

What can you tell us about your room and positioning? Photos might help, too.
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
The only way you'll get REW to apply any eq to your system is with additional gear, something like a minidsp unit, and with external amps (so fairly easy for a sub with an avr, but for your speakers....). REW/mic are still great for measuring, tho. I also wouldn't expect the Audyssey/avr graphs to be all that exact fwiw. They're approximations.
ah! Okay so would need to feed REW into the DSP but even then the Marantz wouldn’t apply them, so would need external amps? And I’m assuming it would be an external integrated I’d need?

I do see amazon suggests bundling the dsp along with the mini dsp along with the umik. So maybe I’ll do that.
Getting ahead here but I’d disable Audyssey, run interconnect through AVR into dsp and then another from dsp into external amp?
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
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There’s most of the room. Towers are where the bookshelves were. When I got my new PB pros, I did a sub crawl and miraculously those locations were second best (best was side wall, not an option, and behind couch sounded as bad as the front corners)
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
12 feet from speaker to couch, back of couch about 2 feet from back wall
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Did you run your measurements with the curtains open or closed?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
ah! Okay so would need to feed REW into the DSP but even then the Marantz wouldn’t apply them, so would need external amps? And I’m assuming it would be an external integrated I’d need?

I do see amazon suggests bundling the dsp along with the mini dsp along with the umik. So maybe I’ll do that.
Getting ahead here but I’d disable Audyssey, run interconnect through AVR into dsp and then another from dsp into external amp?
If you have powered subs you don't need any additional amplification.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
ah! Okay so would need to feed REW into the DSP but even then the Marantz wouldn’t apply them, so would need external amps? And I’m assuming it would be an external integrated I’d need?

I do see amazon suggests bundling the dsp along with the mini dsp along with the umik. So maybe I’ll do that.
Getting ahead here but I’d disable Audyssey, run interconnect through AVR into dsp and then another from dsp into external amp?
The minidsp would do the applying (certain gear can work with REW, check first....minidsp is one brand that does accommodate, think Dayton has a similar unit that does as well). Yes in that the Marantz can't accept that information, you need to insert the minidsp in between the avr pre-out and the amp. An integrated amp would be a waste, just regular old power amps. You could conceivably do eq with a minidsp on a sub and still run Audyssey to integrate it with your system.
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
Did you run your measurements with the curtains open or closed?
They were open. Will try with them closed when I can and see how that changes it! I might be able to convince the Mrs to allow a panel on the wall next to that speaker and maybe behind the fronts.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
I'm not advocating for room treatments, necessarily.

However, I think buying into a bunch of MiniDSP products is going to be an expensive folly. You can't EQ your way out of bad acoustics.

I do agree, if you are interested, downloading REW and learning the program with a umik1 is a worthwhile pursuit. I would recommend buying your mic through Cross Spectrum Labs. (Mine, I purchased through M-DSP and it doesn't work right... didn't know enough at the time to understand... now I'm stuck with it. *shrugs)
Once you understand REW and can see what your system and the changes you implement are doing, then, if needed, consider adding another product that you can program, be it a small fleet of 2x4s or the DDRC88A, or something in between. Either way, it will get expensive following that path.

SO:

Just looking at the photos you posted, doing simple things like hanging some artwork and shelves with knick-knacks will help break up the reflective surfaces. Putting a good blind on the window with heavier curtains that you can close when listening will help. there are really a lot of easy solutions to treating your room that don't involve buying expensive sound panels.
I would be interested in seeing your F-R speaker measurement as it is firing into the end of the couch.
What is your whole system? All speakers, amps, avr... and would you post your Audyssey before and after shots for the whole rig, please.
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
Ascend Sierra towers, RAAL
Elac debut center (ascend horizon *should* ship this week)
Elac debut in wall surrounds
Marantz SR7011 AVR
PB 2000 pro x2.
You’ll see in the photos the sub response—I’ve added additional EQ using the SVS app applied to the dip around 60hz.
The other thing I’m considering is moving the towers inside the subs to see what that gives me. They will be too close together at about 5.5 feet but would not toe them in.
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M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
Decided to play more with position. Tried them in closer to the tv with the subs in the corner. Soundstage predictably evaporated. Now I’ve moved them further out, and tied them in more dramatically so they’re crossing over the opposite shoulder. Only got to listen to the Ballad of Bill Hubbard once in pure direct (no audyssey) before my wife went to bed, but the imaging did not seem to suffer from FL being only a few inches away from side wall with the amount of toe in I gave it. Sounds appropriately seeming to come from surround channels.
I’m going to run another Audyssey sweep tomorrow and will post the results.
0231291D-16D2-4A2E-937B-1B6C8C17D3D3.jpeg

Not scoring points for looks here, just sound.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Decided to play more with position. Tried them in closer to the tv with the subs in the corner. Soundstage predictably evaporated. Now I’ve moved them further out, and tied them in more dramatically so they’re crossing over the opposite shoulder. Only got to listen to the Ballad of Bill Hubbard once in pure direct (no audyssey) before my wife went to bed, but the imaging did not seem to suffer from FL being only a few inches away from side wall with the amount of toe in I gave it. Sounds appropriately seeming to come from surround channels.
I’m going to run another Audyssey sweep tomorrow and will post the results.

Not scoring points for looks here, just sound.
How did you determine sub placement initially?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Somewhere along front wall is only option available. During crawl it sounded marginally better along the side but it’s a nonstarter.
Too bad you can't free up space by moving 1 sub away... I find symmetry to be more a detriment to acoustics than an aid. Of course, YMMV. :) And I'm guessing you don't wanna move out over it. :p
 
M

Mpsafranski

Junior Audioholic
Exactly! Hahaha. My only other thought was purchasing a wireless kit from SVS and moving one behind the couch but during my crawl it was just a lot of vibration noise in any of the three corners. I could still try it and then take any issues with the SVS app but it seems more of a hassle than anything. I did purchase a dsp mic yesterday and I Do have a cable long enough to try it back there (I think) to see how it measures. We will see.
 

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