Audioquest HDMI Audio Rigged Demo Exposed and Addressed in Open Letter

Who do you think is responsible for this deceptive demo?

  • Audioquest

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • D-Tronics

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Both. Let's be real Audioquest had no motivation to end this until they were exposed!

    Votes: 36 90.0%

  • Total voters
    40
C

cutedaddy

Audioholic Intern
About time some official institution will step in and expose all these fraudulent cable companies and sue them for reimbursement of unrightfully charged invoices.

Really an outrage EE's are told they 'know nothing' by die hard followers of the cable religion, who themselves are, in fact, the ones to lack any knowledge on the pretty simple science of conductor behavior and the really simple science of binary digit transfer over a data connect. It's called projection, i believe: the act of accusing someone else of a shortcoming you yourself are guilty of.

THERE IS NO WAY A WAVEFORM CAN BE ALTERED WHILE IT IS BEING TRANSFERRED AS A FAST SEQUENCE OF DIGITAL ON/OFF PULSES. THE PULSES JUST ARRIVE, OR THEY DON'T, IN WHICH CASE NO BITS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THE DAC AND NO ANALOG WAVEFORM WILL BE RECONSTRUCTED. Just like you cannot record color with a microphone or cruise the interstate in a sailboat. Simply impossible.

I understand (by now) there's some pretty militant people out there wanting to uphold the myths (around cables a.o.). What i don't understand is where they find the arrogance to challenge peer reviewed scientists, especially when themselves they're from obviously completely uneducated background.

What i understand even less is how making false claims about phenomena that are demonstrably false and consequently charging money for it from the generally ignorant public is not prohibited by law.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
...

What i understand even less is how making false claims about phenomena that are demonstrably false and consequently charging money for it from the generally ignorant public is not prohibited by law.
Well, I think it is covered. But, someone has to sue for false advertising. Truths in Audio is not on the high priority of the government to police. The FDA does go after false claims of pills, etc.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
This topic was also the subject of a lengthy series of comments over at Stereophile. There were those who claimed that they base their selection of wires and cables on how they affect imaging. And while they may acknowledge the findings by Waldrup, this has nothing to do with imaging. One could I imagine use a program like AudioDiffMaker and capture the outputs using different cables and analyze the difference.

Blind testing was brought up and predictably, JA once again discussed the efforts that would be required to give such tests validity while not expending equal effort on sighted testing.

Lowe says he's waiting for access to the files in question but I didn't see where he said he would contact Mark for copies. And of course, Lowe said if you can't hear the difference between cables, buy the cheapest ones. Others said you need a resolving system. Par for the course with Lowe. Maybe this topic needs a wider audience. Anyone know if Reddit has picked up on it?
 
S

Sal1950

Audioholic Intern
Lowe says he's waiting for access to the files in question but I didn't see where he said he would contact Mark for copies. And of course, Lowe said if you can't hear the difference between cables, buy the cheapest ones. Others said you need a resolving system. Par for the course with Lowe. Maybe this topic needs a wider audience. Anyone know if Reddit has picked up on it?
Mark Waldrep stated he was sending the video to Bill Lowe on Feb 3rd. Very good read here. Sorry I haven't been a member long enough to post links but it's in his Jan 29th date blog down in the comments. realhd-audio.com AudioQuest CEO Responds

Also amir of whatsbestforum has and analyzed a copy that backed up Marks findings. I sure he would be glad to supply a copy of the video if Mr Lowe still claims he never received it.
See whatsbestforum Audioquest HDMI cables thread, post #18 Dated 1-23
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
At least they'll have testimonials to fall back on.
 
C

coldsoul

Audiophyte
Created a profile to just say thanks for all the great write ups. When I was first researching my system I planned on spending at least a couple hundred dollars or so on speaker wire. After reading articles here I realized the speaker wires could not make a difference and the arguments made by the cable believers were thinly veiled personal attacks. Keep up the good work.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Created a profile to just say thanks for all the great write ups. When I was first researching my system I planned on spending at least a couple hundred dollars or so on speaker wire. After reading articles here I realized the speaker wires could not make a difference and the arguments made by the cable believers were thinly veiled personal attacks. Keep up the good work.
Welcome. :)

Glad AH was able to serve you properly with the facts.
 
G

GrantS

Audiophyte
It is the perpetrators' responsibility to get their media productions right, and they remain accountable for monitoring or lack of monitoring of what is out there in their name.

And when a whistleblower (if not within the company, at least Mark is within the industry) blows the whistle, then everyone needs to rally around and support him, even protect him, because we all know what the perpetrators and their henchmen will try to do to the whistleblower. As we can see, this case is no exception.

Keep the focus, and the heat, where it belongs.
 
S

Sal1950

Audioholic Intern
ROTFLMAO!
Thanks so much again Gene and Hugo for speaking the truth and standing up to the powers that be.
There's some not so nice stuff going on behind the scenes to try and "punish" Mark Waldrep for his whistle blowing blog.
Did Woodward and Bernstein ask Nixon and the Plumbers about the Watergate break in before they published what they had found out?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Gene this is most likely directed at you via your Youtube video on the matter:

Posted at WBF by William Low:

"Hi Amir et al., though such old comments, probably no one else still cares -- but I'm sort of fired up because of the never-ending idiocy over at audioholics, who use a denial of the phenomenon of dielectric involvement as their poster child for snake oil accusations -- but really a poster child for their own ignorance."

Since Mr. Low won't participate here I'm sure Amir would welcome another experienced EE on the matter to post over there.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Gene this is most likely directed at you via your Youtube video on the matter:

Posted at WBF by William Low:

"Hi Amir et al., though such old comments, probably no one else still cares -- but I'm sort of fired up because of the never-ending idiocy over at audioholics, who use a denial of the phenomenon of dielectric involvement as their poster child for snake oil accusations -- but really a poster child for their own ignorance."

Since Mr. Low won't participate here I'm sure Amir would welcome another experienced EE on the matter to post over there.
I have no time or desire to debate the snake pit of ignorance over on that forum. Mr. Low isn't capable of having a technical discussion on cables based on provable science. The burden of proof of his claims are on him but all he does instead is provide anecdotal stories of psuedoscience and "trusting your ears" over measurements.

Also remember that anyone can file a patent even if the patent has no validity like their DBS system. I was actually thinking of filing a similar patent for my IBS system for GLOB :)

http://www.audioholics.com/trade-shows/2005-consumer-electronics-show-ces/audioholics-unveils-new-cable-technology-the-globTM

Here are some references they can dine on regarding distortion and dielectric:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/dielectric-absorption-in-cables-debunked

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/cable-distortion-and-dielectric-biasing-debunked

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/skin-effect-relevance-in-speaker-cables

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/interview-with-dr-howard-johnson-about-skin-effect

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/cableshift/cp.html

Feel free to share my YT video on that forum for Mr. Lowe to continue to enjoy my "ignorance" on the subject matter :)
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The interesting tidbit is the Mr. Low referenced the constant biasing of a set of capacitors in a JBL crossover with out any really understanding that it's a SET of caps as to not have a push/pull voltage scenario.

Then Amir posts a a very succinct pictures of a scope showing the difference in distortion profiles of biased caps and ask's Mr. Low to provide that type of examples for their cables.

NOW the real problem with the Audiophile segment of the community is some ignore the Empirical evidence produced by Amir, and go along with Mr. Lows 'example' of DBS on capacitors as a correlation to cables.

My goal is to get some information in their hands but I'm frustrated to the point of just giving into the urge to call them stupid which I honestly don't want to do because their really good people. But it is what it is.

Stupidity is ignorance willfully left uncorrected.

Thanks for all the prior effort and the links.
 
S

Sal1950

Audioholic Intern
jinjuku I feel your pain. No matter how much evidence you put in front of some people the patented response is "either your gear or ears suck". No attempt to ever support any claims of audible miracles, just the brick wall of ignorance. I have very much enjoyed this time with Cablegate and posting various links to the Real-HD Audio blog and Genes post on the AH site. They don't know what to say, even the patented response doesn't really fix cause it's just a statement of fact on the AQ videos deliberate falsification. They seem to be trying to ignore it as much as possible hoping the embarrassment goes away.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
The interesting tidbit is the Mr. Low referenced the constant biasing of a set of capacitors in a JBL crossover with out any really understanding that it's a SET of caps as to not have a push/pull voltage scenario.

Then Amir posts a a very succinct pictures of a scope showing the difference in distortion profiles of biased caps and ask's Mr. Low to provide that type of examples for their cables.

NOW the real problem with the Audiophile segment of the community is some ignore the Empirical evidence produced by Amir, and go along with Mr. Lows 'example' of DBS on capacitors as a correlation to cables.

My goal is to get some information in their hands but I'm frustrated to the point of just giving into the urge to call them stupid which I honestly don't want to do because their really good people. But it is what it is.

Stupidity is ignorance willfully left uncorrected.

Thanks for all the prior effort and the links.
Yes it is interesting how they try to use a capacitor to model a piece of wire. It demonstrates lack of basic understanding of electrical principals. I believe some of the folks perpetuating this simply do it out of ignorance, not out of deceit. However, Audioquest pushing a bogus patent on a biasing a dielectric tells a different story in my eyes.

It always makes me wonder if you need these type of cables for your main speakers, why not for the surround channels? Does Audioquest make long runs of these cables? If so, they'd likely cost more than the speakers they are attached to. Ridiculous.

BTW you show a level of patience and understanding that I simply don't possess for this level of ignorance. Perhaps it's because I've been fighting this nonsense for too long. It's good to have someone else who is level headed like you carry the torch ;)
 
G

GrantS

Audiophyte
Somehow I doubt that this current fuss will be a catalyst for the buyers and sellers in the exotic cables market turning into engineering rationalists. It's more about doctored, deceptive marketing material.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Somehow I doubt that this current fuss will be a catalyst for the buyers and sellers in the exotic cables market turning into engineering rationalists. It's more about doctored, deceptive marketing material.
With forums, at least, the tide has mostly turned against the boutique cable outfits. Sure you get some backwoods forums with minimal hobbyist impact *cough*polkaudioforums*cough* where logical thinking doesn't apply but overall the word is out and many receive the message loud and clear.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I see Mr. Low can't engage in a technical discussion so he goes into distraction mode talking about baseball. LOL.

His statements about skin effect and inductance again shows he lacks a basic fundamental understanding of the phenomenon. Nothing is unknown or mysterious about this. He talks about cable inductance like it goes up b/c of Skin Effect at high frequencies, but the actual opposite happens due to internal inductance going down. :rolleyes:

See: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/calculating-cable-inductance-of-zip-cord
 
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