Audioquest HDMI Audio Rigged Demo Exposed and Addressed in Open Letter

Who do you think is responsible for this deceptive demo?

  • Audioquest

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • D-Tronics

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Both. Let's be real Audioquest had no motivation to end this until they were exposed!

    Votes: 36 90.0%

  • Total voters
    40
N

neotruth

Audiophyte
I can't take any article seriously when someone actually coded in two spaces in between sentences.

Unless you're writing on a typewriter, stop doing that. It's looks ridiculous. Thank you.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
It's rather telling the Bill Low won't have myself or anyone else out to perform blinded evaluation.

I have a setup with NIC (Network Interface) teaming where you can have multiple NIC's servicing one connection. You can actually drop a cable and the network comms won't miss a beat.

In fact computer based systems and streamers buffer the data so you can actually disconnect both Ethernet cables, plug one back in and the listener would never know.

What a fraud.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
It's rather telling the Bill Low won't have myself or anyone else out to perform blinded evaluation.

I have a setup with NIC (Network Interface) teaming where you can have multiple NIC's servicing one connection. You can actually drop a cable and the network comms won't miss a beat.

In fact computer based systems and streamers buffer the data so you can actually disconnect both Ethernet cables, plug one back in and the listener would never know.

What a fraud.
I noticed that with my FireTV. I can restart my router and video will keep playing for a minute or so before it pauses until it reconnects. Depends on the device's buffer too.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I noticed that with my FireTV. I can restart my router and video will keep playing for a minute or so before it pauses until it reconnects. Depends on the device's buffer too.
Yep, all these computing devices are buffered and non-realtime. You aren't even playing directly off the Ethernet connection.

J-River allows you to buffer the entire track up to 1GB.

Even with Windows Media Player, I believe, you can edit a registry entry to up it's buffer to 20 seconds.

This is why purveyors of fine Ethernet cables are scared to do any real controlled evaluations. Ethernet allows for direct, in-situ, evaluation without ever introducing a break in playback.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
It's rather telling the Bill Low won't have myself or anyone else out to perform blinded evaluation.

I have a setup with NIC (Network Interface) teaming where you can have multiple NIC's servicing one connection. You can actually drop a cable and the network comms won't miss a beat.

In fact computer based systems and streamers buffer the data so you can actually disconnect both Ethernet cables, plug one back in and the listener would never know.

What a fraud.
They are too busy listening for directionality in wire :rolleyes: I wonder if they realize how truly misinformed they are or if they know better but continue the psuedoscience to perpetuate their story to differentiate their products in hopes it would increase their brand appeal to their target customers.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I can't take any article seriously when someone actually coded in two spaces in between sentences.

Unless you're writing on a typewriter, stop doing that. It's looks ridiculous. Thank you.
Looks like towards the end of the article there was some weird formatting issue that only showed on mobile. I think I fixed it so maybe you can take it more seriously now ;)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
this is something we have all known for years... its amazing these company are allowed to false advertise like this for so long without any legal action....
Legal action costs $$$$, expert witnesses, etc. Who would sue?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
They are too busy listening for directionality in wire :rolleyes: I wonder if they realize how truly misinformed they are or if they know better but continue the psuedoscience to perpetuate their story to differentiate their products in hopes it would increase their brand appeal to their target customers.
They can hear directionality but when it comes to a video with 8dB of doctored audio they just aren't quite sure.

Some set of ears they have on them.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Samurai
Is this an isolated incident, or just the latest in a string of misleading behavior perpetuated in the high-end cable industry?
The string of misleading behavior goes back as far as I can remember.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
A 2 meter HDMI cable from Audioquest is only $1500 with FREE shipping from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-6-56-Braided-Cable/product-reviews/B003CT2A2M/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

What a deal. Gotta read the reviews, priceless!
I saw that cable in a local store and I was surprised they carry it. The had been the largest single store dealer for Munster Cable and then, someone came along with a big pitcher of KoolAid and they lapped it up. I had to terminate some of the AQ crimpless RCA ends on the RG59x5 and every time, the center conductor kinked and caused a short. I had been doing it exactly the same as in the training video but when the wire is a single strand of 24 ga, I have to wonder what they expect.
 
R

Rick Powell

Audiophyte
The true way to test your assertions of the cables would be to isolate each data stream and feed it into a computer and then compare if the data streams were changed in any way. It all four cables feed the exact order of ones and zeros, then you truly know that they committing a fraud. I do think your assertion is correct, but my way would allow for certainty. Your method only implies it. Do you really have someone of your staff who knows exactly how sound and video are converted into those ones and zeros, and keep everything in sink? I certainly do not but I do know that the code is binary and if the code is the same then the output will be the same.
 
S

stehno

Audiophyte
IMO, in general such questionable ethics are rampant throughout much of the high-end audio industry and have been for decades. Some say it started with Thomas Edison's first phonograph but it took Memorex and Ella Fitzgerald commercials back in the 70's to really kick in the hyperbolic slogans ("Is it live, or is it Memorex?").

Meridian's Bob Stuart and his newly released high-rez MQA format is perhaps the best and biggest example of industry hype when it can be demonstrated that higher rez formats cannot provide anywhere close to the in-studio performance claims Meridian, its minions, including editors in chief like Harley or Atkinson claim. From what I can tell, it's a complete sellout to simply usher in a single common format to simplify inventories and distribution. Nothing more.

But again, in an industry where the emperor never had any clothes and results are so subjective, anything goes when it comes to performance claims and the sky's the limit when it comes to superlatives.

Even many of the so-called experts have no clue what they are talking about and/or being a complete sellout.

At a recent CES show, Stereophile's editor in chief John Atkinson supposedly listening to a pair of Vandersteen Model 7A speakers declared the sound produced by the Vandersteen's to be "Musically perfect, ... Across the board."

Anybody who truly understands the sonic differences between live music and even the very best reproduced music also realizes the huge gulf that separates the two.

Not only was Atkinson not called on the carpet by anybody (except me) for his nonsensical claims, Vandersteen, his dealers, and/or distributors published Atkinson's words in numerous Model 7A advertisements. Thus substantiating the possibility that perhaps only a handful really discern what they hear and/or that high-end audio is capable of making the most outlandish performance claims without fear and without shame.

As for Audioquest specifically, I've always considered them to be mid-fi at best, even in the naming of their product lines. But again, they are far from alone.

In my opinion.
 
Last edited:
S

Sal1950

Audioholic Intern
It's all snake-oil and irrelevant. Mr CEO admits seeing the video and being skeptical (cause in his heart he knows that it's impossible) a year ago. What did he do, nothing, he didn't want to.
I'l all over the audiophile websites and the response from most of the lunatic fringe is the same as always,
"I don't care what the measurement say, I know what I hear" "If the measurements don't show a difference they don't know what to measure for yet" "If you can't hear the differences in cables you either have crap equipment or don't know how to listen". BLAH BLAH BLAH.
I'd like to say I don't really care and they deserve to blow as much money as possible on $3,000 power cords, who cares.
But the sad part is every day new listeners come to the hobby and are assaulted on the audiophile websites, high end audio magazines, etc, with all this snake oil garbage about cables and all the rest. I do my best to wise them up but am constantly attacked as being a deaf fool. I don't care, I'll keep doing my best to open their eyes to the objective side of audio.
This little upheaval over the falsified video has been a great thing, I'm loving every minute of it. It's giving me new info to lead the newbies to and help to support my claims to them that they are being lied to and cheated by many in the industry and subjective cults.
Thanks so much to Mark Waldrep of AIX Records, one of the few really bright lights in the High End Audio industry, for writing his blog and always "telling it like it is".
And thanks also to Gene DellaSala and the crew at Audioholics, another source of truthfulness that I can point the newbies to. This industry is badly in need of more like them.
The beat goes on at Real HD-Audio
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
There are many YouTube videos using the search terms 'Audioquest + demo'. Might be some others that demonstrate remarkable differences.
 
A

Ampdog

Audioholic
My background is under my name. A previous encounter with AQ was - er - indicative of lack of sound knowledge about cable role in audio (to put it softly). Since then I could find nothing to change that conclusion. Sadly, they are by no means alone in the phenomenon of sales talk drowning out any evidence of relevant technical prowess. It may perhaps be unfair to cast the full beam of revelation on them alone at this time, but they had it coming for some time. So sad ....
 
A

andrewb773

Audiophyte
That guy, Dr. Whatever, is a fraud himself.

What kind of audio guru makes public a post on his very website, bewildered at why DXD files have ultrasonic noise? Seriously? This one gaffe is absolutely unthinkable, totally unacceptable for anyone, absolutely anyone claiming to be an 'expert' in Hd audio.

To this day that blog posting of his stuns me. It doesn't take an expert, not even close, to understand that all modern ADC's, regardless of the output sample rate, are delta-sigma, therefore any file, DXD included, created with them is going to have the ultrasonic delta-sigma signature noise in it.

Now, Audioquest is probably doing something shameful here. But, I don't give a rat's behind about the Dr. AIX or whatever he calls himself. He is just as much a shameful fraud as the snake oil salesmen he is calling out.

Oh, and the only thing worse than his ignorance are his 'speculations' on what the noise might be. Sheesh.
 
A

andrewb773

Audiophyte
Of course, I see that you, Mr. editor, are part of the absolutist cult that denies any and all differences in cables, which is of course hogwash as well. The notion that ones and zeros are just that is just as debatable as those that make nonsensical claims about the types of wood that make the most sound difference in cable suspension blocks.

What a dis-service you do, brainwashing people with supposed facts that are just as un-supported as the nonsense spewed by these cable companies.

As usual, the truth is much more unsettled, and likely lies somewhere in the middle.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Here's an amusing email exchange I had with NBS cables who also claimed their stuff just played louder. Unfortunately they didn't have a video.

I had about 10 years ago.

Quote:


----- Original Message -----
From: *****
To: nbscable@nbscables.com
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:30 AM
Subject: speaker cables


how is it that putting your cables in system requires one to back off on the volume control? I don't understand. Since one of your reviewers made the statement and you linked to him, could you provide the electrical measurements that indicate the degree that either your cables increase the voltage to the speaker or conversely, the amount that other cables (which ones) seem to attenuate it? Thanks!!!

From: NBS Cables
To: *****
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: speaker cables

DEAR SIR:

MAY BE THE QUESTION SHOULD BE:

WHY ARE OTHER MANUFACTURERS CABLES SO RESISTANT, AS TO CAUSE ONE TO RAISE THE VOLUME?

SINCERELY,

NBS


From: *****
To: NBS Cables
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


OK...then please give me your reasons why other manufacturer's cables impede the flow of electricity to the extent that one must raise the volume? Approximately how many dB of attenuation is occuring?


From: NBS Cables
To: *****
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


DEAR SIR:

I CAN NOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW THE RESISTANCE OR OTHER ELECTRICAL PARAMETERS OF THE CABLES YOU ARE COMPARING AGAINST.

SINCERELY,

NBS


From: *****
To: NBS Cables
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


Fair enough then please provide me the information as it relates to your cable and any brand of your choosing that you've measured. Also, is your cable manufactured in-house or is it OEM'd? I your facility ISO 9000 certified? Thanks for answering so promptly!


To: *****
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


DEAR SIR:

ALL PUBLIC INFORMATION ON NBS PRODUCTS IS ON OUR WEB SITE

www.nbscables.com

ALL NBS AUDIO CABLES ARE HAND MADE TO ORDER IN OUR FACTORY LOCATED AT:
5051 HWY 7 STE. 230
ST. LOUIS PARK, MN 55416 U.S.A..

THE RESISTANCE FACTOR IS SO LOW FOR THE LENGTH OF CABLE WE SELL, IT IS UNMEASURABLE: IF ONE WERE TO USE A HUNDRED FEET OF CABLE OR SO THERE WOULD BE SOME MEASURABLE RESISTANCE, HOWEVER THE LONGEST CABLE WE MAKE IS NO LONGER THAN 15 FEET.

AS FAR AS ISO 9000 CERTIFICATION. WE ARE NOT CERTIFIED, AS WE SELL OUR PRODUCT TO SO MANY COUNTRIES WHERE THE ISO 9000 CERTIFICATION DOES NOT APPLY. THE ISO 9000 STANDARD IS A GOOD THING TO CAUSE ALL PRODUCTS TO BE UNIFORM, HOWEVER UNTIL THERE IS MORE INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION, THIS SEEMS TO BE A DREAM. EUROPE HAS PAL AND SECAM, AND WE IN THE U.S. HAVE NTSC. I DON'T THINK THERE WILL EVER BE A WORLD STANDARD, THOUGH DIGITAL COMMUNICATIONS MAY BE THE FIRST STEP. (INCHES AND METERS) (120 VOLTS 60 CYCLES VS 250 VOLTS 50 CYCLES) THE LIST GOES ON.

SINCERELY,

NBS


From: NBS Cables
To: *****
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


DEAR SIR:

THE DEVICE TO MEASURE RESISTANCE IS AN OHM METER.

FOR YOUR INFORMATION:

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A GOOD DEAL ON NBS CABLES, WE HAVE B-STOCK. THESE ARE CABLES THAT HAVE GONE TO SHOWS, ETC, AND CAN BE PURCHASED FOR 50% OFF THE U.S. RETAIL PRICE. THESE CABLES ARE IN NEW CONDITION, AND HAVE FULL FACTORY WARRANTY.

TO ORDER:

(800) NBS-0204 IN THE U.S. OR (952) 848-1100 IF YOU GET OUR ANSWERING MACHINE PLEASE LEAVE YOUR NAME AND NUMBER, AND A CONVENIENT TIME TO REACH YOU.

SINCERELY

NBS


Original Message -----
From: *****
To: NBS Cables
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


i'll look into your b line. i'm well aware that resistance is measured using an ohm meter, it is just that it seemed there must have been something lacking in yours to be unable to get a reading. I don't understand why you can't give me an answer as to what your threshold for measuring resistance is? It seems like you're ducking my questions? Perhaps you can pass this question and the text of all the emails to one of your researchers who can provide some answers.


From: NBS Cables
To: *****
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


DEAR SIR:

I CAN NOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ACCURATELY, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT REFEREED TO A SPECIFIC SPEAKER CABLE, WE HAVE A TOTAL OF 12 DIFFERENT CABLES WE MANUFACTURER; HOWEVER I CAN GIVE YOU AN AVERAGE. THE AVERAGE RESISTANCE FOR ALL NBS SPEAKER CABLES WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 2 MILI OHMS PER FOOT. FOR YOUR INFORMATION, THE AVERAGE OHM METER IS INCAPABLE OF MEASURING ACCURATELY LESS THAN ONE OHM. TO MEASURE BEYOND THIS YOU NEED A LABORATORY DEVICE WHICH WOULD COST SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS.

NOW WHAT CAN I SELL YOU?

SURELY AFTER ALL OF THIS YOU WOULD LIKE TO PURCHASE WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE FINEST CABLE AVAILABLE.

SINCERELY,

NBS.


From: *****
To: NBS Cables
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: speaker cables


getting back to my original question, which you've ducked, it is quite impossible for your cables compared to standard 12 gauge to have any audible affect upon the volume of the sound such as the reviewer that you linked to stated. Had your company chastised him and called into question this preposterous claim, asking for a retraction as the claim is fraudulent, you would have demonstrated integrity. Rather your reply was that why are other cables so resistant? A manufacturing facility requires that appropriate instruments be in place and certainly the expenditure of a few hundred dollars is rather trivial. This indicates to me that NBS has done nothing but constructed cables without a thought to performing the requiste studies to determine statistically significant audible differences. Rather, what we have appears to be the appearance of robust construction coupled with an inordinate pricing structure to bolster and foster the thinking that somehow your product improves sound. Your caginess has cause me to take out my rubber stamp and put a 'do not recommend' sticker. And get rid of the caps...internet convention does look upon that as shouting.


DEAR SIR:

I AM SORRY YOU ARE SUCH AN ANGRY PERSON WHO TAKES UP A CAUSE WHEN HE DOES NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS, OR HAS THE KNOWLEDGE TO MAKE AN INTELLIGENT CRITICISM. YOU ARE NOT ALL KNOWING, AND THERE ARE SOME PHENOMENA THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE AWARE OF THAT COULD ACCOUNT FOR A VOLUME CHANGE WHEN A TWELVE GAUGE WIRE IS SUBSTITUTED FOR A CABLE DESIGN OF NBS.

(YOUR PREVIOUS MISSIVES DID NOT STATE TWELVE GAUGE WIRE. A LITTLE DISHONESTY ON YOUR PART?)

IN YOUR IGNORANCE YOU RESORT TO INSULT; HARDLY GENTLEMANLY OF YOU. HOWEVER MANNERS IN TODAY'S SOCIETY IS UNCOMMON.

A BIT OF KNOWLEDGE:

WHY A CABLE OF THE NBS DESIGN MAY INCREASE VOLUME

NBS CABLES INCORPORATE COMMON MODE REJECTION DUE TO GEOMETRIC CONSTRUCTION TO AID IN THE CANCELLATION OF RFI.

SHIELDING TECHNIQUES THAT INHIBIT THE INTRODUCTION OF RFI AND EMI.

NBS DOES USE LABORATORY EQUIPMENT TO MEASURE THESE PHENOMENA AND FACT.

I USE CAPITOL LETTERS BECAUSE I CHOSE TO (YOU SEE, I BUILD DRUMS AND YOU MARCH TO DRUMS)

PLEASE SIR, TRY NOT TO BE SO NEGATIVE, HURTFUL, AND ANGRY. IT ONLY MAKES THE WORLD A LITTLE MORE ANGRY AND NEGATIVE, AND WE SURELY DON'T NEED THAT.

SOMETHING FOR YOU TO TRY!

TAKE TWO 12 GAUGE WIRES ( ONE FOR + ONE FOR - ) AND TWIST THEM TOGETHER APPROXIMATELY ONE INCH PER TWIST
GO TO AN ELECTRICAL SUPPLY STORE AND PURCHASE 1/4" SHIELDING, AND COVER THE TWO TWISTED WIRES.
DO NOT ALLOW THE SHIELD TO CONTACT THE BARE WIRES. TAPE THE SHIELD AT EITHER END.
IF POSSIBLE INSULATE THE SHIELD. (RAP IT WITH ELECTRICAL TAPE)
YOU WILL HAVE JUST MADE A PAIR OF SPEAKER CABLES.
YOU MIGHT JUST HAVE TO TURN DOWN THE VOLUME..

GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

THIS ENDS ALL MY COMMUNICATION WITH YOU.

SINCERELY,

WALTER FIELDS,
PRESIDENT/DESIGNER
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Of course, I see that you, Mr. editor, are part of the absolutist cult that denies any and all differences in cables, which is of course hogwash as well.
That wasn't my read. I think AH includes in it's approach an appeal for data.

On one hand you have AQ stating that they listen to each batch of drawn conductor for directionality but on the other they won't participate in any bias controlled listening evaluations.

Add on to the above that Bill Low admits they don't wire some cable types to spec

Add on to both the above that AQ is fraudulently advertising some Ethernet Assemblies as CAT 7 when they demonstrably are not.

This thread isn't about Dr. Waldrep. If you can poke a hole in his findings then please feel free to do so. If you have an issue with another of his blog postings please start a separate thread and by all means invite him to participate.

Please stay on topic so as not to derail the thread. Any other posts to the contrary will be evaluated and managed accordingly.
 
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