AudioControl Concert XR-6S (8K 9.1.6 Immersive AV Receiver with Zone 2 and Class AB Amplification).

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I feel the only option now left it to upgrade my existing A/V receiver to a better one?

It’s a balance approach. I would want the best within my budget that I will be proud of for EVERYTHING - AVR, speakers, subs, etc. Heck I’m proud of my speaker cables too. They don’t have to be the most expensive or least expensive.

Here’s a thing about everyone- everyone will recommend to you what THEY would do personally. Dealers may recommend what they want to sell or what they would do if it were their money. People will also recommend what they own. If they own a Denon X3800, they recommend it. If they own an Anthem, they recommend it.

Before you buy anything else, definitely do more research because you don’t want “gimmick” from dealers or “compromise” from someone. Don’t want to go “too high” and don’t want to go “too low”. You don’t want to feel like you’ve listened to bad advice from anyone - dealers or other consumers. Everyone has their own reasons.

Life would be a lot more simple if we were billionaires and $6K, $10K, and $25K AVR’s were pocket change.

Here are some things to consider.

1. Don’t worry about DACs because even the lower-end DACs will have awesome specs that are INDISTINGUISHABLE from the most expensive DAC in terms of sound quality. Humans simply cannot hear the difference between THD+N of 0.0001% vs 0.001% or Dynamic Range of 150dB vs 110dB.

2. Giant companies like Denon/Marantz and especially Yamaha will have a lot more money allocated to research/development and customer support. Their products will usually have less “bugs” and if you ever need support, there is a lot higher chance of being able to speak to someone about it today, not in a few days or weeks.

3. Some people feel that Room Correction is a MUST-HAVE, and some people don’t even use any room correction (RC) because they feel it doesn’t do much for them. Just because someone loves RC doesn’t mean you will and vice versa. But if you want RC, Audyssey XT32 and DIRAC seem to be excellent options. According to @PENG our local expert who have used RC from Anthem ARC, Audyssey XT32, and Dirac, Dirac seems to be #1 overall, but Audyssey XT32 is #2 and not too far behind. So if RC is a must-have, then Denon/Marantz is a good option.

At the end of the day, YOU have to be proud and happy with EVERYTHING you own.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for your response but still wanted to understand that is Dirac Live more important than Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32 to enjoy all the contents via the OTT Apps to its fullest?

B’coz as far as I checked with one audio dealer, I came to know of that all the contents available on Netflix, PrimeVideo, Disney+ Hotstar, etc… are to the max recorded on 7 channels so buying a 9 channel A/V receiver or more than 2 Dolby Atmos speakers will become pointless.

I have asked about on how many channels are the contents recorded by the content providers, to Netflix, PrimeVideo, Disney+ Hotstar on Twitter but they are not ready to divulge this important information.

And between Marantz Cinema 50 vs Denon X3800H vs Denon X4800H, which one would you strongly recommend to pair up with Sonus Faber Sonetto II G2 or Sonetto II if this is still available in stock though these all will be a blind purchase without auditioning them as for everything, one has to travel in different cities & that’s a real pain. There happens to be no single spot wherein all the products of all the brands are made available under one roof. One has to pack bags & become a traveller to surf the entire country to audition different products.

Again, just mere listening for 30 minutes to an hour won’t confirm even 70% that what purchased was indeed a correct decision. One has to live with the product for atleast a month of two to properly feel it & receive that confidence that yes, this is what I wanted. Buying a Home Theatre products is either a “Hit or a Miss”.

Again, the setup at the audition rooms are completely different vs the normal life people live in their living room of Flats or even a Villa or Bungalow. Walls, Shape of living room, etc… completely differ & I am sure of that not even a single person would consider changing their home entrance that’s “A Living room” into a studio otherwise their guest who visits them, upon opening the maindoor of the house will feel as if he/she has arrived at the wrong address upon seeing a living room being converted into a Demo room… (-:.

This is the major challenge that audition happens inside a “Squared Box” room but the speakers finally play for the rest of its life in a living room. Sadly, there is absolute no way to bridge this gap.

Dirac is an effective tool from what I've seen/read, but haven't tried. I've used Audyssey XT and XT32 that I have in several avrs, and with the MultEQ Editor App is quite flexible. Even finer adjustments can be made with the MultEQ-X software/app (but haven't used that myself) and there's the Audyssey One freeware as well. I wouldn't spend a lot more for Dirac myself. Your current avr can do fine with the streaming services. 7ch via streaming is somewhat rare still, 5.1 via the Dolby Digital Plus codec is typical. Bluray discs are better for audio and video than streaming still. As far as Atmos, you really need speakers in your ceiling to take advantage....this is something I have not done either as that would be a lot of work with my various rooms and don't find it worth the work/effort.

I'm not familiar with the Sonus Faber speakers myself but I'd probably look to the Denon 3800 and add external amps as needed. From what I've seen Sonus Faber has some good speakers and cabinetry. Here in the US it's not hard to find speakers that can be delivered to you, some will even pay return shipping if you don't like them. I also live far away from showrooms and I've been fine without traveling to them for quite a while now, I rely more on measurements and user experiences (don't need a dealer recommendation).

There's little difference between the 4800/3800 in terms of amp power (just 1 dB advantage to the 4800 over 3800) and the feature set is about the same. Marantz here is just more expensive for little benefit and is slightly less powerful than the 4800, but is basically a very similar avr overall (as you might expect from sister brands). What's the pricing for these units where you are? zkelectronics.com has some good comparison tools.

As to your current JBLs, one of my systems is the slightly older Studio 5 series, but I use the 530s as rear surrounds, have 590s for L/R and 580s for surrounds. In a small room the 630s might suffice as mains, but I have a fairly large living room for those JBL speakers. Rooms in a house often have other primary functions other than an av entertainment system, so often sacrifices/compromises are made.

What your expectations particularly are, or what your particular preferences might be, are hard to judge over the internet.

 

[PENG]

The dealer still maintains that the AudioControl Concert XR-6 uses very high-quality audiophile DACs (124 dB of dynamic range) so he says buying this will be more beneficial as I will begin to feel immense difference in sound quality with my existing JBL 630s. What's your opinion.

Since you are considering such an expensive (only relatively speaking obviously) AV receiver, I would suggest you spend some time to do the following:

- Research the specs and test bench measurements (hopefully there are some available) and ignore what the dealer tells you (I guess not totally, and it depends..)

- Bugs reports, reliability issues, warranty means little if you have experienced the inconveniences when something failed, especially if it is intermittent issues, even if your dealer is next door, they most likely have to ship it back to the manufacturers. Even reputable and highly reliable products such as Marantz's do fail as well, though may be better than average; and in more than a few cases, people had bad experiences with their major warranty services from their major service center, in some cases, had to send it out more than once and eventually end up with a replacement unit that was uses/refurbished etc..

- AV receivers are highly complicated audio devices, companies such as Audio Control may or may not have the same kind of depth, experience in this kind of products that the leading brands such as Yamaha, Denon and Marantz have.

All of the above probably don't matter to you if you are in the money no object category of audio enthusiast, otherwise you may feel the pain if you have to replace such an expensive unit in just a few years because of bugs, reliability, issues or just obsolescence due to new features that you may want.

On the extreme end (that's what I am being drawn to all the time now), one only need to spend less than $1,500 on something like a Denon AVR-X3800H, or a Cinema 40, or up all the way to the affordable AVR-X6800H that will match or exceed the specs of the AudioControl Concert XR-6 (example the DAC chip used).

The best AVR in terms of specs and measurements at the moment now appears to be the Cinema 30, or the Denon AVR-A10H that uses the brand new ES9017 that has about the same specs as the AudioControl's ES9026 Pro though it does has 124 dB DNR, that is 4 dB higher than the ES9017's 120 dB, distortions specs are the same, both have SINAD 110 dB. As ADTG noted, no one can hear the difference between 120 and 124 dB, or even 110 dB. Neither DACs are considered by ESS Sabre as their "reference" class.

To get the reference class ESS DAC chips you need to get the Denon AVR-A1H (may be the cheaper A10H but not sure), AudioControl Maestro X9, or go separate. For separates, the Anthem AVM90, or the Marantz AV10 are far superior in terms of value, both has the reference class ESS DAC ICs (mentioning it only because that seems to matter to you), the Anthem's has the same ES9038Pro that the Maestro X9 uses, but on Gene's bench, the AV10's actually measured a touch better in SINAD.

Also, could you kindly suggest me a very good U.P.S. & Power Stabilizer?

I only use some cheap, but good quality surge suppression devices at the outlets, in addition to a "whole house" surge suppression device at the main panel in the basement. All those expensive UPS and so called stabilizer or regulators are silly (unless you are in areas where power quality/reliability is a real issue), but hey, they sell...

 

[apoorvasheth]

Since you are considering such an expensive (only relatively speaking obviously) AV receiver, I would suggest you spend some time to do the following:

- Research the specs and test bench measurements (hopefully there are some available) and ignore what the dealer tells you (I guess not totally, and it depends..)

- Bugs reports, reliability issues, warranty means little if you have experienced the inconveniences when something failed, especially if it is intermittent issues, even if your dealer is next door, they most likely have to ship it back to the manufacturers. Even reputable and highly reliable products such as Marantz's do failed and in more than a few cases, people had bad experiences with their major warranty services from their major service center, in some cases, had to send it out more than once and eventually end up with a replacement unit that was uses/refurbished etc..

- AV receivers are highly complicated audio devices, companies such as Audio Control may or may not have the same kind of depth, experience in this kind of products that the leading brands such as Yamaha, Denon and Marantz have.

All of the above probably don't matter to you if you are in the money no object category of audio enthusiast, otherwise you may feel the pain if you have to replace such an expensive unit in just a few years because of bugs, reliability, issues or just obsolescence due to new features that you may want.

On the extreme end (that's what I am being drawn to all the time now), one only need to spend less than $1,500 on something like a Denon AVR-X3800H, or a Cinema 40, or up all the way to the affordable AVR-X6800H that will match or exceed the specs of the AudioControl Concert XR-6 (example the DAC chip used).

The best AVR in terms of specs and measurements at the moment now appears to be the Cinema 30, or the Denon AVR-A10H that uses the brand new ES9017 that has about the same specs as the AudioControl's ES9026 Pro though it does has 124 dB DNR, that is 4 dB higher than the ES9017's 120 dB, distortions specs are the same, both have SINAD 110 dB. As ADTG noted, no one can hear the difference between 120 and 124 dB, or even 110 dB. Neither DACs are considered by ESS Sabre as their "reference" class.

To get the reference class ESS DAC chips you need to get the Denon AVR-A1H (may be the cheaper A10H but not sure), AudioControl Maestro X9, or go separate. For separates, the Anthem AVM90, or the Marantz AV10 are far superior in terms of value, both has the reference class ESS DAC ICs (mentioning it only because that seems to matter to you), the Anthem's has the same ES9038Pro that the Maestro X9 uses, but on Gene's bench, the AV10's actually measured a touch better in SINAD.



I only use some cheap, but good quality surge suppression devices at the outlets, in addition to a "whole house" surge suppression device at the main panel in the basement. All those expensive UPS and so called stabilizer or regulators are silly (unless you are in areas where power quality/reliability is a real issue), but hey, they sell...

Thank you Peng for such a detailed input. I think I really need to drop my idea of going for a super expensive AVRs rather, I shall consider a mid-range AVRs from Brands such as Denon or Marantz & spend more on the best speakers. But again as you mentioned, the reliability of these mid-range AVRs from brands such as Marantz is questionable & due to their product’s fault, a consumer cannot be made to suffer by handling them over a used product in the form of “Refurbished” whereas they had paid for brand new. However, I did talk to one of their service center to take the reliability review of Cinema series to which he said it is supposed to be a well made product in terms of it’s reliability as he hasn’t received a single product yet for repairs within warranty period, this he said in 2023 & Marantz Cinema series were launched in February, 2022.

However, there are only 2 ways to keep my A/V receiver safe.

1) To buy a good Stabilizer to make sure the A/V receiver doesn’t blow up due to voltage fluctuations.

2) To make sure whenever the HDMI or any connectors behind any A/V receiver is to be unplugged or re-plugged or new device is to be plugged-in, one has to “FIRST” Turn OFF & “Completely Power OFF the A/V receivers & it’s connected equipment’s. Make the connection changes behind the A/V receiver or insert new device’s HDMI Cable & once all set, then Power back ON the A/V receiver & it’s connected devices such as TV, Blu-ray player, STB Box, Playstation, XBox, etc…

I learnt this important piece of information about turning off the A/V receiver by spending ₹12,000.00 (USD $142.83) on the repairs of my Yamaha RX-V685 which failed due to the HDMI Current leakage issue.

However, I now aren’t sure of whether my Home’s electricity has Power fluctuations or not? What shall I ask the electrician to check for when he comes over with his equipment? Also which equipment does an electrician require to check for Power fluctuations?

And now finally about the Front Left + Right speakers, I am considering to buy between Sonus Faber vs SVS Sound Bookshelf speakers.

Sonus Faber:
a) Sonetto II (if stock still left with any dealer in India).
b) Sonetto II G2 which has been newly released in India but super expensive just for a pair of Bookshelf.
c) Lumina II - Reasonably priced + I think this speaker has won an award as well.

SVS Sound:
a) Bookshelf Ultra.
b) Bookshelf Ultra Evolution.
c) Bookshelf Prime - But not sure of how better will it’s audio quality be.

Doing an audition of everything is very difficult unless I pack my bags for a week or two journey & become a traveller to go here & there with absolutely no guarantee for sure whether the speakers I auditioned in different cities of different brands & models will exactly sound the same in my living room?

So, it’s gonna be a “Blind purchase”.

So, need everyone’s advice on which will turn out to be super best speakers mentioned above in terms of pristine clear highly detailed note & sound quality product, outputs not harsh but very sweet music as I love listening to songs but loud.

But then is this true that buying a super expensive speakers also need a super expensive A/V receiver of class A/B amplification to marry well perfectly?

Actually my present Front Left + Right are JBL 630 Bookshelf speakers from their newly launched 600 series this year. While these pair of Bookshelves sound nice but it doesn’t give me a Wow experience & a standing ovation, though not sure of whether my existing Yamaha RX-V685 A/V receiver is unable to open-up these pair of JBL 630 completely?

Therefore, now this is my “Last Chance” by moving JBL 630 to surrounds & buy the super best quality of Bookshelf speakers for both Music, Hindi songs & Movie surround effects.

And finally for Dolby Atmos, I am considering between these 2 brands —> Emotiva vs SVS Sound.

Emotiva:
a) Airmotiv XA2 Height / Surround / Ceiling / Reflective Speakers (Pair).

SVS Sound:
a) Prime Elevation.

Now I am also confused on this theory whether 2, 4 or 6 Dolby Atmos enabled speakers are needed to achieve a true Dolby Atmos experience b’coz while someone says all the contents recorded & provided via these OTT apps such as Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+ Hotstar are to the “Max” recorded on 7 channels which means a setup of 5.1.2 or 7.1 is enough but another says that an A/V receiver is meant & designed to transform sound in such a way that even the rear height Dolby Atmos speakers (along with Front Heights so now it’s 5.1.4 or 9.1) sound can be felt & well experienced by setting a delay time limit for these rear heights.

A Google search on this complex topic specifies:

“The minimum number of speakers needed for Dolby Atmos is two, but Dolby recommends four speakers for the best experience. Dolby recommends installing four Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers whenever possible. This is the most precise way to experience realistic overhead sound”.

So need someone to throw some extra light on this complex topic as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe its back somewhere in your threads but what is the room size/layout? I wouldn't use bouncy-style Atmos "enabled" speakers myself. Really depends on placement of speakers and room and seating....

Why just bookshelf speakers so far?

 

[isolar8001]

Maybe its back somewhere in your threads but what is the room size/layout? I wouldn't use bouncy-style Atmos "enabled" speakers myself. Really depends on placement of speakers and room and seating....

Why just bookshelf speakers so far?

He has pics in his original post....it's a damn tough room for sure.

 

[apoorvasheth]

Maybe its back somewhere in your threads but what is the room size/layout? I wouldn't use bouncy-style Atmos "enabled" speakers myself. Really depends on placement of speakers and room and seating....

Why just bookshelf speakers so far?

Thanks for your response. I would love to go for a Tower Speaker, but the problem is "mainly" of space constraint.

To the left is the dining table. To the right is the Sub-woofer. Next to it, the door opens. I checked out SVS Sound website & I am thinking of SVS Prime Bookshelf speakers so when that comes, I need to move these pair of JBL 630 to Surround so this also means that the present Fronts JBL 630 will now sit on a Floorstand in Surrounds therefore, no space next to my Sofa as well to re-locate the front JBL 660P Sub-woofer.

Though I also thought of SVS Ultra Elevation or SVS Ultra Evolution but not quite sure of whether these will be too powerful to overpower my JBL 660P Sub & other speakers than?

 

[PENG]

Thank you Peng for such a detailed input.

You are welcome, I tend to provide detailed response to detailed questions that come with lots of info required for meaningful responses.

I think I really need to drop my idea of going for a super expensive AVRs rather, I shall consider a mid-range AVRs from Brands such as Denon or Marantz & spend more on the best speakers. But again as you mentioned, the reliability of these mid-range AVRs from brands such as Marantz is questionable & due to their product’s fault, a consumer cannot be made to suffer by handling them over a used product in the form of “Refurbished” whereas they had paid for brand new. However, I did talk to one of their service center to take the reliability review of Cinema series to which he said it is supposed to be a well made product in terms of it’s reliability as he hasn’t received a single product yet for repairs within warranty period, this he said in 2023 & Marantz Cinema series were launched in February, 2022.

I edited my post a little to clarify my comments on D+M AVRs/AVPs reliability, that based on observations on forum posts, they seem to be above average, even comparable with recent Yamaha models. Yamaha's seem to be top in terms of reliability, though there has been more posts on their 2021-2023 AVRs that seem to indicate a decline, however slight it may be. It is hard to substantiate, without actual reliable stats from insiders, so take such comments with a grain of salt.

However, there are only 2 ways to keep my A/V receiver safe.

1) To buy a good Stabilizer to make sure the A/V receiver doesn’t blow up due to voltage fluctuations.

2) To make sure whenever the HDMI or any connectors behind any A/V receiver is to be unplugged or re-plugged or new device is to be plugged-in, one has to “FIRST” Turn OFF & “Completely Power OFF the A/V receivers & it’s connected equipment’s. Make the connection changes behind the A/V receiver or insert new device’s HDMI Cable & once all set, then Power back ON the A/V receiver & it’s connected devices such as TV, Blu-ray player, STB Box, Playstation, XBox, etc…

1) is only true to a point, and in extreme cases only, most homes in countries like the USA, Canada will not likely to have voltage fluctuations, and any minor fluctuations must be within limits that are regulated by the local authorities and standards. You will get lots of hearsay kind of concerns likely originated from a few/rare cases and people made such incidents a bigger issues than they really are, as usual, and naturally.

2) Yes, that part makes sense, safe and good practice is not to plug/unplug HDMI (in act, just about any other connections) with power on. You could get away with doing such acts without sustaining damage probably 99 out of 100 times, but it is 100% safer to do so with power turned off first.

However, I now aren’t sure of whether my Home’s electricity has Power fluctuations or not? What shall I ask the electrician to check for when he comes over with his equipment? Also which equipment does an electrician require to check for Power fluctuations?

As I commented above, if you are in the US or Canada, you should not have to worry, though in some less populated/remote areas, that is a possibility. Your best bet is to ask your local utilities. You can get an electrician to checks thing out, but a) they are not engineers so they are not trained to do much more than one can do with a good multimeter and that will not be able to discover fluctuation issues unless it is really bad. If it is really bad, then you will know because lights might dim or flicker often enough to be noticeable, otherwise you are most likely fine. To really know more about such potential issues, someone will need to hook up a recorder that can do the job, for a few days, and has to know how to interpret the results.

If fluctuation is not the issue, surge suppression certainly could be and even in the best area with the best utility companies doing their best, you are going to get occasional surges from lightning and from nearby large industrial consumers (such as steel mills). That's why it is always a good idea to install whole house surge suppressors and local smaller/cheaper devices at the outlets, that's what do and would recommend others to do.

And now finally about the Front Left + Right speakers, I am considering to buy between Sonus Faber vs SVS Sound Bookshelf speakers.

Sonus Faber:
a) Sonetto II (if stock still left with any dealer in India).
b) Sonetto II G2 which has been newly released in India but super expensive just for a pair of Bookshelf.
c) Lumina II - Reasonably priced + I think this speaker has won an award as well.

SVS Sound:
a) Bookshelf Ultra.
b) Bookshelf Ultra Evolution.
c) Bookshelf Prime - But not sure of how better will it’s audio quality be.

Doing an audition of everything is very difficult unless I pack my bags for a week or two journey & become a traveller to go here & there with absolutely no guarantee for sure whether the speakers I auditioned in different cities of different brands & models will exactly sound the same in my living room?

So, it’s gonna be a “Blind purchase”.

So, need everyone’s advice on which will turn out to be super best speakers mentioned above in terms of pristine clear highly detailed note & sound quality product, outputs not harsh but very sweet music as I love listening to songs but loud.

But then is this true that buying a super expensive speakers also need a super expensive A/V receiver of class A/B amplification to marry well perfectly?

Actually my present Front Left + Right are JBL 630 Bookshelf speakers from their newly launched 600 series this year. While these pair of Bookshelves sound nice but it doesn’t give me a Wow experience & a standing ovation, though not sure of whether my existing Yamaha RX-V685 A/V receiver is unable to open-up these pair of JBL 630 completely?

Therefore, now this is my “Last Chance” by moving JBL 630 to surrounds & buy the super best quality of Bookshelf speakers for both Music, Hindi songs & Movie surround effects.

You must have done a lot of research on this already as all those speakers seem to be good choices, good enough to do your planned "Blind purchase".

I would add to those by including:
- Revel
- KEF R, or the much more expensive reference series
- Focal, models that use Beryllium tweeters.

For bench test results:

Audioholics and ASR are probably the best site to check on the bench test measurements of speakers.

Floorstanding and Tower Speaker Reviews (audioholics.com)

Speaker Review and Measurement Index | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

And finally for Dolby Atmos, I am considering between these 2 brands —> Emotiva vs SVS Sound.

Emotiva:
a) Airmotiv XA2 Height / Surround / Ceiling / Reflective Speakers (Pair).

SVS Sound:
a) Prime Elevation.

Now I am also confused on this theory whether 2, 4 or 6 Dolby Atmos enabled speakers are needed to achieve a true Dolby Atmos experience b’coz while someone says all the contents recorded & provided via these OTT apps such as Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+ Hotstar are to the “Max” recorded on 7 channels which means a setup of 5.1.2 or 7.1 is enough but another says that an A/V receiver is meant & designed to transform sound in such a way that even the rear height Dolby Atmos speakers (along with Front Heights so now it’s 5.1.4 or 9.1) sound can be felt & well experienced by setting a delay time limit for these rear heights.

Ambient speakers are not too important to me so I use cheap/average quality ones, so I am going to leave this to other members.