Audio-Technica AT-LP1240-USB Professional DJ Turntable Preview

[3db]

Vinyl sales will go up and down but to be realistic, it's not going to go mainstream.
Besides, the mpaa would eventually ban vinyl. You can't put DRM's on a record.
Even scratch dj's are ditching vinyl for digital media.. The great Technics 1200's is dead replaced by the SL-DZ1200.. digital..
I'm sorry, this thing about vinyl coming back is nonsense. I'll like to see these teenage schmucks walking around with 12 inch singles (Mom, can I go to Timmy's house to spin some groovy tunes?)

I said vinyl will remain niche and anyone who knows anything about vinyl playback know its take a carefully setup turntable to extract the best from it unlike over compressed lossy mp3s that are stuffed in your portable toy.

 

[3db]

I would like to see a $20,000 audiophile turntable do this:
DJ Jazzy Jeff ("RUN DMC - Peter Piper") @ Jason Richardson's - YouTube

big deal.

 

[TLS Guy]

Of all the turnatbles to review, why this one??

I don't know who wrote the review but the author is so out of touch with reality callling a turntable "bling" . I use mine on a daily basis and I'm one among millions that do. Its not bling but is working fixture in a lot of audio centric set-ups.

To the author, try and avoid your missinformed biases towards turntables when doing a TT review. There are a large number of entry to mid level turntables from the likes of ProJect, Rega, Music Hall, ClearAudio, Thorens, etc that offer excellent value with out the USB "bling" .

I agree Tom Andry needs a lot of post graduate education on turntables in the audio system.

That turntable is not a turntable for the domestic audio system. It is for Low-Fi DJ use.

Good turntables are always manual. You don't want the arm pulling any mechanism.

Belt drive is fine, I have replaced the belt on my Thorens TD 150 once in 46 years!

Good arms need to be strong with low resonance and have good damping. They are not S-shaped which adds mass where you don't need it.

It is easy to play a disc. If the arm is well damped, you place the stylus over the run in, pull the lift lever forward and the stylus will gently fall onto the right place on the disc.

There is more to it than that, but that is the basics.

 

[PENG]

So don't worry about your tables being called bling unless it's a 200lb behemoth made with dolphin bones

Thanks, it got me worrying for a few seconds because I have basically the same kind of bling 3dB has, just a later version of his if I remember right.

 

[haraldo]

Seems like Tom Andry is aspiring to compete with Jerry Seinfeld when it comes to humor and sarkasm

There are actully turntables in the price range between the Goldmund and Caliburn top range and the ultra cheap ones, and they are not so hard to find if you want to, so I don't understand any of the remarks in this article...

Some Japanese high-end products have gone to the step of making the RIAA correction in the digital domain ïnstead of analog, with the background that they can do this with much less loss, phase shift and other nastities.... from what I read the results can be shocking in a good way.... now that's something that Audio Technica and other could look into when they put everything in one bok

How about some creativity, Audio Technica and others out there that makes these products

 

[agarwalro]

Jungle/DnB/Dubstep are one of the few scenes still cutting plates, and even those DJs are mostly running through a computer. I mean, the cost of cutting a dubplate becomes too much and travelling it's too hard to carry vinyl around when it all fits in a laptop with Serato. Especially international.

Very true. All events have a computer stand around the tables.

I said vinyl will remain niche and anyone who knows anything about vinyl playback know its take a carefully setup turntable to extract the best from it unlike over compressed lossy mp3s that are stuffed in your portable toy.

Uncompressed audio over an equally carefully setup DAC would be an unbiased comparison.

big deal.

Don't be an audiophile and dismiss him because it isn't a symphony bring played on a carefully setup turntable. If not anything else, his purchases keep the format going.

 

[Time_Stand_Stil]

I enjoy Tom and Liz on the AV Rant podcasts but Tom is not an expert on vinyl. He when discussing vinyl says much of the same things many non-vinyl users say. Things like how noisy vinyl is and how digital is better etc. But talk like that only reveals a lack of experience with a good playback table, cartridge and good quality albums. The years of media pushing CD and lately digital downloads is not always accurate and has been woefully ignorant to how good vinyl can sound on a decent to good turntable.

Yes, a turntable requires greater effort in setup, it takes more effort to play an LP. Nope no plopping a CD in a drawer or pushing a button on an iPod. But given a good turntable and quality albums new or used in good stored shape and in clean condition will blow your mind. Vinyl forces you to actually sit and LISTEN. It can be a refreshing thing to do in a world full of "ants in your pants" type folks buzzing or jumping around in life, never enjoying anything but trying to do everything all at once.

A few things to add it was noted that one needs a table with a straight arm, WRONG! Tone arm shape has little to do with quality groove tracing. Only how well an arm is made, straight, S, J or a linear arm. Most arms regardless of shape are in the medium mass range because most cartridges are medium mass. As to drive system, the myth that only belts make good drives is a result of the multitude of cottage turntable makers not having the ability and R&D to make good direct drives. Belts can be perfectly fine if engineered well but a good direct drive as per the better designs of yesteryear in the world of Hi-Fi work beautifully too.

Anyways, I'd ask Tom and the rest of the Audioholics get a hold of a quality turntable (new or well conditioned vintage) and they need not be mega bucks, find some good albums, clean em up and they'd likely be floored at how great vinyl can sound.

To conclude the AT model Tom Tested is a perfectly adequate table, no not high end but probably surprisingly good. Take some time to tweak it, better isolate the turntable and fit a better than bare bones cheap cartridge on it and one may be surprised.

 

[Time_Stand_Stil]

Vinyl sales will go up and down but to be realistic, it's not going to go mainstream.
Besides, the mpaa would eventually ban vinyl. You can't put DRM's on a record.
Even scratch dj's are ditching vinyl for digital media.. The great Technics 1200's is dead replaced by the SL-DZ1200.. digital..
I'm sorry, this thing about vinyl coming back is nonsense. I'll like to see these teenage schmucks walking around with 12 inch singles (Mom, can I go to Timmy's house to spin some groovy tunes?)

You just don't get it!

Nobody says vinyl will rule the day in terms of sales. Nobody says it won't remain just a niche. But as a niche in the years to come it will hold its place. It will likely outsell CD's in time as digital moves more and more to downloads.

I laugh at how in life all too many people speak of the death/demise of all too many things only to be proven wrong. They say the car killed the horse and buggy. YES! as a daily use item but horses are still being born and used by man along with buggies. Typically for touristy stuff but they did not go extinct. Blacksmiths still exist too.

Those who take the care and time to get into vinyl will understand it and will live to enjoy the sound and the way vinyl has you listen to music. Not all folks want to play 45-60 seconds of a track on an iPod or similar to then hit skip to listen to another track for 45-60 seconds and so on. Too bad for those types of listeners who skip to skip to skip tracks, they will miss out not only the ritual of vinyl but the simple pleasure of sitting back and listening to a side of an album, then flip it over for the second side.

 

[3db]

Very true. All events have a computer stand around the tables.

Uncompressed audio over an equally carefully setup DAC would be an unbiased comparison.

Don't be an audiophile and dismiss him because it isn't a symphony bring played on a carefully setup turntable. If not anything else, his purchases keep the format going.

I'm not being an audiophile when I said that. I just don't care for the "bling" . I'm in it for the music and sound and not all the DSP that thing can do.

 

[audiofox]

I have to agree that this is easily the least informative review I've yet read on Audioholics-it would be only marginally better if it were not biased against the subject of the review (ie, vinyl playback) from the outset, which tends to eliminate the objectivity that is most useful in a good review. Of all the turntables available today (at least to those that take the time and effort to research the subject), his choice for the review is unimpressive, to say the least, and I certainly don't share his perception of this one as "cool". OTOH, I don't really come to Audioholics for enlightenment on the vinyl front-there are several other webs sites that are much better at that.

 

[3db]

I have to agree that this is easily the least informative review I've yet read on Audioholics-it would be only marginally better if it were not biased against the subject of the review (ie, vinyl playback) from the outset, which tends to eliminate the objectivity that is most useful in a good review. Of all the turntables available today (at least to those that take the time and effort to research the subject), his choice for the review is unimpressive, to say the least, and I certainly don't share his perception of this one as "cool". OTOH, I don't really come to Audioholics for enlightenment on the vinyl front-there are several other webs sites that are much better at that.

Kinda make you think that this is just a "token" review. Did they ever miss the mark on this one.

 

[nickboros]

I have to agree that this is easily the least informative review I've yet read on Audioholics-it would be only marginally better if it were not biased against the subject of the review (ie, vinyl playback) from the outset, which tends to eliminate the objectivity that is most useful in a good review. Of all the turntables available today (at least to those that take the time and effort to research the subject), his choice for the review is unimpressive, to say the least, and I certainly don't share his perception of this one as "cool". OTOH, I don't really come to Audioholics for enlightenment on the vinyl front-there are several other webs sites that are much better at that.

This is a preview, not a review. There is quite a bit of information about the product. But, it is quite clear that Tom is biased about vinyl. I agree with Tom though. Why are the record lablels still making vinyl albums, when they could make it in an uncompressed Blu-Ray? There are many more people who have Blu-Ray players out there and since it is in the digital domain, there isn't an audible difference between a $100 Blu-Ray player and a $1000 player. The record labels could even take it further and offer a Blu-Ray/CD/ free download package of the album (similar to what is being offered for most movies). It seems to me that the only reason that vinyl is still an option is because of the nostalgia.

 

[Time_Stand_Stil]

There is no difference between a $100 Bluray player and a $1000??? TRY AGAIN!

I use the Oppo BDP-83 at only $500 and let me tell you it outperforms that $100 unit in EVERY WAY!

As to why not just put music on Bluray and not bother with vinyl? If a market exists why not make products for it. Just because vinyl may not enjoy the mega sales it did in the 70's does not mean it's not a vehicle to a profitable market for businesses that are savvy enough to notice this.

If the old men in grey suits of the music industry had any brains they'd seize more on this. Some labels are doing the cross marketing, say you buy an LP and you get a CD or a movie bluray etc. This way the consumer has more access to various formats while the company makes a fair profit.

VALUE ADDED is the statement I give to the corporate idiots in the ivory towers of the music industry. Same goes for the movie industry.

Bluray music can sound great but it still most often lacks a sense of life, texture, depth, listener involvement that a great vinyl LP has when on a good turntable set up.

But if one agrees with Tom and his general bias against vinyl, one will not likely care or ever care to be convinced otherwise.

 

[nickboros]

There is no difference between a $100 Bluray player and a $1000??? TRY AGAIN!

I use the Oppo BDP-83 at only $500 and let me tell you it outperforms that $100 unit in EVERY WAY!

I too own the Oppo BDP-83 and it does NOT outperform a $100 Bluray player in every way. I was discussing the uncompressed audio on a Blu-Ray disc being passed along to the receiver in either PCM, or if it is bitstreaming it as DTS (lossy or Master Audio) or Dolby (lossy or True HD). There should be absolutely no difference in the sound that you will get out of your speakers from this on the Oppo player or a competently made $100 Bluray player. It is just passing along the digital signal that is encoded on the disc, so the receiver and then the digital to anlalog conversion is done in the receiver. The point that I was trying to illustrate is that if we got more Bluray albums, then a much larger audience who cares about sound quality could have it with very cheap equipment. There would be no reason for someone interested in the best sound quality, to have to spend a lot of money on a Bluray player to get the best sound quality out of the listening experience. Like I said, if all the person was interested in was listening to Bluray albums, then a $100 player would suffice. The same cannot be said, if one wants to get the most of listening to their vinyl albums.

Yes the Oppo is an awesome player and was not a waste of my $500, or yours. It will play SACD's, DVD audio discs and has top notch upconversion for DVD's. The big selling point for me is that it can easily be hardware modified to play DVD's and Bluray's from other regions.

 

[Time_Stand_Stil]

nick,

Yes, sending out a bit stream from a Bluray to the processor should typically yield similar results among all players. Not exactly perfect as other variables matter, overall design and build quality of the machine, the quality of the transport mechanism and the ability to better handle vibrations etc.

As to vinyl playback. The ability to extract the most from vinyl discs requires greater attention to what turntable you use, the cartridge, the phono preamp and how well made and in condition the vinyl discs are. This can be the fun part of the vinyl playback hobby and the nemesis. Unless one GETS IT and accepts the ritual they will not be able to give a qualitative opinion on the experience.

Those and yes, Tom has made these comments too on his podcasts use the woefully weak arguments that vinyl is scratchy, noisy and invariably poorer playback medium as to any of the loss-less digital formats. When I hear and read comments by others like this I dismiss them as being ignorant to how good and how much better a good vinyl setup can sound over any current digital format. I said can as not all LP's were/are good in quality of production and sound and a poorly set up vinyl side of playback WILL SOUND POORER TO EVEN BAD! I don't bother to argue much with these folks as I'd have a better chance of convincing my home's walls to agree with me than these ignorant and close mined folks. All I will say to them, is take time to find a person who has a good to great vinyl setup and then visit, sit down, spin some LP's, shut up and JUST LISTEN! If that won't open their minds then nothing will.

Vinyl playback is a ritual, can be a pleasure as well as a pain at times in handling and setting up but one of the truest ways to just sit back and listen to music. It requires your attention for 20 odd minutes per side and thus YOU ACTUALLY LISTEN and are not jumping around and fiddling around like you have ants in your pants like all to many DIGITAL ONLY listeners do today. For them the music they play is on but they typically are not really listening to it. It's their loss.

 

[TLS Guy]

This is a preview, not a review. There is quite a bit of information about the product. But, it is quite clear that Tom is biased about vinyl. I agree with Tom though. Why are the record lablels still making vinyl albums, when they could make it in an uncompressed Blu-Ray? There are many more people who have Blu-Ray players out there and since it is in the digital domain, there isn't an audible difference between a $100 Blu-Ray player and a $1000 player. The record labels could even take it further and offer a Blu-Ray/CD/ free download package of the album (similar to what is being offered for most movies). It seems to me that the only reason that vinyl is still an option is because of the nostalgia.

We have been over this ground many times. Classical recordings for the most part are not issued on vinyl LP. Pop music is; why? The reason is that massive dynamic range is used on the later. You can't do that on an LP or you have a very short play time. So people go to vinyl to escape excessive dynamic range compression.

Digital media are superior to LP. However LP can sound very good. Some of us have large legacy LP collections and we want to play them. I won't deny there is not an element of nostalgia for those of us who have carefully preserved our vintage turntables. Would I by an LP if it were issued concurrently with a CD? No way.

However LP with a good rig sounds very good. The best compliment I can get from my LP rig is when someone does not realize it is an LP and thinks they were listening to CD!

If all CDs were mastered properly there would be no need to cut LPs.

 

[3db]

This is a preview, not a review. There is quite a bit of information about the product. But, it is quite clear that Tom is biased about vinyl. I agree with Tom though. Why are the record lablels still making vinyl albums, when they could make it in an uncompressed Blu-Ray? There are many more people who have Blu-Ray players out there and since it is in the digital domain, there isn't an audible difference between a $100 Blu-Ray player and a $1000 player. The record labels could even take it further and offer a Blu-Ray/CD/ free download package of the album (similar to what is being offered for most movies). It seems to me that the only reason that vinyl is still an option is because of the nostalgia.

Several reasons:
1.) Involvement. There is a ritual that takes place before you lower the tone arm.
2.) There is also liner notes and cover notes that can s do,be read without a magnifying glass.
3.) There is stuff on vinnyl that you simply cannot get on any digital format.
4.) It also sounds REALLY REALLY good and ydnamic.

 

[haraldo]

Several reasons:
1.) Involvement. There is a ritual that takes place before you lower the tone arm.
2.) There is also liner notes and cover notes that can s do,be read without a magnifying glass.
3.) There is stuff on vinnyl that you simply cannot get on any digital format.
4.) It also sounds REALLY REALLY good and ydnamic.

Agree so much, listening to music is a process....

I read somewhere that someone did a measurement proving some distortion figures are significantly lower in LP in a critical midrange area...

Also phase shift is for sure lower in LP compared to digital players with brick wall low pass filters, this is audible too... Wadia goes around this by dramatic oversampling and taking completely away the brick wall filter, I'm sure these things make a difference....

 

[nickboros]

I have no problem with vinyl albums being released as an option. To me it is really sad that we don't have other digital options. Like also having the album released on Bluray, for instance. Because SACD and DVD audio are just about dead. So what do we have left. A CD where the dynamic range is usually noexistant, a digital download where it is not only compressed in terms of the dynamic range but much of the information is thrown away to make the file smaller, or an LP sometimes. The reason that I cannot get into LP's is that like I already mentioned, there is the additional cost to get a good LP rig to play the records. Secondly, you have to sit at in the room with your record player and listen to the whole album. There are very few albums that I will just listen to from start to finish. That doesn't mean that they aren't a great artist, or that I don't love music. Many artists I like every song on the album. I just like to put together playlists and enjoy constantly discovering new artists and songs to progressively make new playlists and improve upon old ones. Having music in a digital format makes it much easier to grab a song here and there and quickly move it around as you like. I have speakers in just about every room in my house. With old receivers still working, I also have easy access to my music in every room as well. This would be much more cumbersome and expensive to do if I had a large LP collection.

 

[Time_Stand_Stil]

TLS Guy,

Classical music was readily issued on vinyl. Much if done properly sounded very good. As to dynamic range the theory is not realistic in practice.

Yes, CD's championed up to 96db dynamic range by design. The best LP's would only get you a little over 70db maybe 75db on DMM discs. But so what?

HUH?, WHAT? you say. Surely the 96 db limit of CD means it's going to be better especially on wide dynamic range classical music.

Ahh you'd think but not so in practice.

Look we live in the real world with real world background noise and real world family members in our homes and nieghbourhood in our locales. If a recording engineer used all 96db of available dynamic range on a CD (lets not even begin to factor in the what 110db or more on SACD/DVD-A) to record the symphony and you tried to play it, two things would happen.

1: If you tried to set your amp's volume high enough to make sure the lowest recorded levels are audible above a typical homes background noise (typically anywhere from 25-35db) the loudest passages would be at 121 to 131db then. If you did not begin to kill your gear, you'd be killing your hearing and more likely be kicked out of your home by your family and the nieghbours would want to shoot you.

2: Ok , ok you realize you have to keep your volume down a bit so that now the musical peaks only got to say 100-110 db. That's still pretty loud if you live with others. Now the problem is you are now 11db to 31db below max dynamic range available and thus the quietest parts of the symphony is well below the back ground noise in your home and YOU CAN'T HEAR IT NOW! You thus are not enjoying the symphony or you are constantly gain riding with your remote control, NOT FUN!

So yes, even with a CD's 96db available dynamic range the tech is compressing that symphony to a livable dynamic range. Likely between 60-70 db max.... TA DA! right in a good vinyl LP's ability to cover. HUH, funny how it all works out to where the vinyl LP works. I guess the engineers back in the day figured out what was realistic in day to day life in terms of dynamic range. Funny in how it also falls within the scope of typical reel to reel mastering machines which did not employ any NR. Mastering reel to reels had a dynamic range of typically up to 70db without any NR.

So now with a livable 60-70 db of engineered dynamic range you bring your symphonic disc home and plop it on your system, you turn up the volume to hear all the range in the disc and guess what your volume to hear such and keep it above the room's noise floor will between 85db to 105db and thus livable to others in your home and in you neighbourhood. This will be so be it a CD or an LP in general.


So now that I blew out the theory of 96db dynamic range of 16bit audio what else do we have?

Nothing much over analogue. Oh sure the background hiss between tracks may be notably quieter on a CD or other digital recoding as there is no signal other than some dither but a good LP on a decent set up can be surprisingly quiet too and once the music plays the difference is not noticeable.

Lower measured distortion on digital? TRUE at higher levels but the lower level signal typically has higher THD over LP. Also most humans are unable to hear the difference in distortion as long as the body of such is less than 3% and a good LP on a good turntable will be much below 3% THD

Noise and scratches. The CD is generally immune from minor scuffs and scratches, but if they are bad enough it will error correct and that can degrade the best sound. If they are really ba, ba, ba, bad... bad, th, th, they they, they, they, they, (WHACK) will begin to skip the track or worse MUTE the track. With LP's the scratch or scuff is a click, annoying yes but they stylus will just track through it.

In the end is all preference. CD's and other digital are more convenient, and thus more consumer happy in that way. But a good to great LP on a good turntable will 100% of the time sound better than its digital twin.

Look I like CD's too they have a place in my system. But given the choice two copies of the same material. If the vinyl disc is in good shape and clean I will want to play that more than the CD if I want to have a very serious listening session.