Audio Interconnects...Help?

[mikepinkerton]

I just bought a new amp (Parasound A51) and I'm looking for quality interconnects to hook it to my pre/pro. I've done a lot of reading and it seems like there are several camps. Some say all cables are the same and just build your own. Some say "just get 'good quality' and be done with it". Some say they can hear the difference in the face of people saying there isn't any.

Argh! I'm done with all of this!

So I know that most "audiophile" cables are snake oil, that seems clear. But what about the <$100/m market? Are those the "good quality" cables that I should look to, like BetterCables or BlueJeans cables? Or do people mean anything with shielding that I can get at radio shack? Where does one draw the line between "unacceptible" and "good quality"?

Let's say I want to build my own, hey I can put ends on coax for sat/cable applications. The articles here say get "good audio coax". What's that? Is that any different from the 75ohm video stuff I'm used to?

Help!!!!!
-Mike

 

[mikepinkerton]

BTW, in case you're wondering, I *can* tell the difference between a $3 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle Dunno if I need to back that up with measurements first, though

--Mike

 

[Rob Babcock]

I just know all your better wines come with the screw top!

 

[Rÿche 1]

Anybody who says there's any noticeable difference in cables (cough) Redbone (cough) should provide the scientific data to back up their claim.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I just bought a new amp (Parasound A51) and I'm looking for quality interconnects to hook it to my pre/pro. I've done a lot of reading and it seems like there are several camps. Some say all cables are the same and just build your own. Some say "just get 'good quality' and be done with it". Some say they can hear the difference in the face of people saying there isn't any.

Argh! I'm done with all of this!

So I know that most "audiophile" cables are snake oil, that seems clear. But what about the <$100/m market? Are those the "good quality" cables that I should look to, like BetterCables or BlueJeans cables? Or do people mean anything with shielding that I can get at radio shack? Where does one draw the line between "unacceptible" and "good quality"?

Let's say I want to build my own, hey I can put ends on coax for sat/cable applications. The articles here say get "good audio coax". What's that? Is that any different from the 75ohm video stuff I'm used to?

Help!!!!!
-Mike

$99/m, that is less than your $100 is still on the expensive side. Cables are rather simple. Been around a very long time.
Radio Shack is fine, or from th elist at this site, or partsexpress.com, Target, WalMart, a local electronics store.

Or, that 75 ohm coax is a good all around cable you can use most anyplace in the audio chain. This cable is what the cable TV uses.

Oh, that wine test of yours. Can you tell which is which when you cannot see the labels, being blinded? That is how good wine judging is under.

 

[Unregistered]

Ok, so let's say we put aside anything over $100/m. That's crazy talk for sure.

How do BetterCables (about $45/m) match up to BlueJeans ($65/m) match up to the "consumer" brands like AR/RadioShack/etc for audio interconnects?

If we've all bought into the "Cables are just cables" mantra, why do people here continue to say great things about BlueJeans/etc or even anything over $30/m? I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out where everyone is drawing the line.

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to make sense of the different things I keep hearing. Thanks!

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

OK, here's the straight poop:

Unless a cable is way out of whack (technical term ) in resistance, capacitance, or inductance (R, C, and L to electronic types) there will be NO (zero, zip, nada, diddly, squat) audible differences. R, C, and L are the ONLY factors that have anything to do with performance at audio frequencies -- forget skin effect and all the rest. In purely electronic terms there's no reason to spend more than $10 a meter, let alone $100. Any decently made cable will have acceptably low R, C and L.

The very high priced cables that actually DO sound different even in blind tests are high in R, C or L, which basically makes it into an expensive and uncontrollable tone control due to interactions between it, your amp, and your speakers!

What you pay a (possibly) justifiable premium for with Blue Jeans and other premium cable or even Radio Shack's top-of-the-line is heavy duty construction and cosmetics. Nothing more. So...decide how much that is worth to you and buy accordingly.

For my part, I don't give a rat's patoot what my cables look like since I try to keep them out of sight. I did spend a bit extra to get some very short interconnects with fairly beefy plugs from Parts Express (seems the car audio guys like 18" and 20" ICs for some reason), which tames the spaghetti jungle behind the gear. Just an example of one person's priorities.

My speaker wire is merely 16 ga. zip cord with Rat Shack spade lugs because I have screw terminals on my DIY speakers. 16 ga. is plenty heavy enough for the 6' of wire per speaker.

 

[Mudcat]

I just know all your better wines come with the screw top!

For your personnal edification, I do not know if it Opus (Mondavi and Chateau lafitte) or Dominus (Ingleknook and Chateau Margeaux or some First Growth) are experimenting with a screw top.

But any bottle that costs more that a decent receiver is way too expensive.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[mtrycrafts]

OK, here's the straight poop:

Unless a cable is way out of whack (technical term ) in resistance, capacitance, or inductance (R, C, and L to electronic types) there will be NO (zero, zip, nada, diddly, squat) audible differences. R, C, and L are the ONLY factors that have anything to do with performance at audio frequencies -- forget skin effect and all the rest. In purely electronic terms there's no reason to spend more than $10 a meter, let alone $100. Any decently made cable will have acceptably low R, C and L.

The very high priced cables that actually DO sound different even in blind tests are high in R, C or L, which basically makes it into an expensive and uncontrollable tone control due to interactions between it, your amp, and your speakers!

What you pay a (possibly) justifiable premium for with Blue Jeans and other premium cable or even Radio Shack's top-of-the-line is heavy duty construction and cosmetics. Nothing more. So...decide how much that is worth to you and buy accordingly.

For my part, I don't give a rat's patoot what my cables look like since I try to keep them out of sight. I did spend a bit extra to get some very short interconnects with fairly beefy plugs from Parts Express (seems the car audio guys like 18" and 20" ICs for some reason), which tames the spaghetti jungle behind the gear. Just an example of one person's priorities.

My speaker wire is merely 16 ga. zip cord with Rat Shack spade lugs because I have screw terminals on my DIY speakers. 16 ga. is plenty heavy enough for the 6' of wire per speaker.

How can one disagree with this, especially me when we are on the same track. But, here comes the but

passive preamps that some fail to mention they have, have a variable output impedance tied to the volume control or right off the volume control that will affect and roll off the hig end even with our good cables. But, that is not a cables fault but a broken passive preamp Naturally this is rare connected with obsessive minimalists, it can happen as I am reminded of this, from time to time. Not the case here, now though. Just an after thought.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ok, so let's say we put aside anything over $100/m. That's crazy talk for sure.

How do BetterCables (about $45/m) match up to BlueJeans ($65/m) match up to the "consumer" brands like AR/RadioShack/etc for audio interconnects?

If we've all bought into the "Cables are just cables" mantra, why do people here continue to say great things about BlueJeans/etc or even anything over $30/m? I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out where everyone is drawing the line.

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to make sense of the different things I keep hearing. Thanks!

Stir the pot? I think the pot is in perpetual motion around here

Cannot add to Rips post, much.
The cables you mentioned are good cables for not that much, certainly much less than the $100/m cable. It gives a peace of mind for many without spending excesses. If you don't have that problem the $10 cable will do you well, but I suspect you have a hesitancy about cables

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

Just have to say I took a look at the Blue Jeans cable site awhile back and I like their marketing approach. They simply say, "we use good quality Belden (or Canare, or whatever) wire chosen for this particular application and good quality such-and-such brand plugs, and put them together well so you get a sturdy cable that has low R, C, and L, won't fall apart when you unplug and replug it, and looks nice." No pixie dust, no outlandish claims.

 

[mikepinkerton]

Thanks guys, the advice does make sense.

I guess hiding in my posts was me fishing to see if anyone had any seriously adverse reactions to any of the cables I mentioned: AR (of which i own a bunch) or with a small step up in cost, BlueJeans or BetterCables. If people jumped out and screamed "those are snake oil wrapped up in feel-good marketing" I guess it would have made things much easier

I like the no-BS approach of all three companies, though BetterCables does seem a tad sketchy....they love to push the silver coating, but the prices are still very reasonable.

*shrug* it's hard to judge when companies are being sincere and when they just want your $$

-Mike

 

[gene]

Mike;

I tested out a Bettercables video cable with the bullet plug several years ago and it did very poorly. It had a very flimsy termination which resulted in excessive chroma delay during my display tests. Unfortunately they didn't take to well to our criticisms and haven't sent new samples to test. They may have improved their cables since then however but since I cannot confirm, I recommend going with Bluejeans or other vendors on our approved cable list.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just have to say I took a look at the Blue Jeans cable site awhile back and I like their marketing approach. They simply say, "we use good quality Belden (or Canare, or whatever) wire chosen for this particular application and good quality such-and-such brand plugs, and put them together well so you get a sturdy cable that has low R, C, and L, won't fall apart when you unplug and replug it, and looks nice." No pixie dust, no outlandish claims.

Yep, that is a very good aprroach indeed. Nothing to fault them on. Others should follow their lead but that will not sell very expensive cables though

 

[mikepinkerton]

Mike;

I tested out a Bettercables video cable with the bullet plug several years ago and it did very poorly. It had a very flimsy termination which resulted in excessive chroma delay during my display tests. Unfortunately they didn't take to well to our criticisms and haven't sent new samples to test. They may have improved their cables since then however but since I cannot confirm, I recommend going with Bluejeans or other vendors on our approved cable list.

Thanks for the update Gene. Is that review online anywhere? Also, where is this approved cable list? I've seen it mentioned in other threads but haven't seen a link to it.

-Mike