Atmos Underwhelming

J

JAB11

Enthusiast
thanks to Gene and the Audioholics YouTube videos I finally realize I'm not crazy, and Atmos can be very underwhelming compared to other formats like Neural or Dolby Surround. I thought there was something wrong with my system when Atmos content would rarely put sound in my front height speakers, and when it did, it's pretty faint/quick. I would just assume change my Apple 4K TV box streaming format off of "best quality/Atmos" and upmix in my Denon 1600 receiver to Dolby Surround or Neural that makes use of the height speakers. But before I do, is there some other benefit to the Atmos/object based sound format other than a signal occasionally going to the height (or ceiling for those that have those) speakers? As in, are the ground speakers (front L/R, rear surrounds, center) getting a different kind of mix with this object based format vs. just using Dolby Surround, Neural, or other formats? Kinda feeling duped by the Atmos hype, although I know all I have is front height speakers above the front L/R (5.1.2) so perhaps without in-ceiling it's not worth the bother.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah, Atmos really shines when you use in ceiling speakers, optimally set up and calibrated. Even then, as you noted, it can be a little bit underwhelming for multiple reasons. Not the least of which finding content that takes advantage of it, but also those overhead speakers just don't have a lot to contribute unless something is going on overhead. Most other configurations (especially bouncy house speakers) just don't quite get you there, imo.

We have plenty of folks here more familiar with the format than I tho. I know @William Lemmerhirt is a big proponent of Atmos done well, but he's pretty good at helping folks out with other configurations as well. I just summoned him for ya!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Dolby Surround is not a particular codec/metadata thing like Atmos, it tries to imitate Atmos via upmixing.....
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks @Pogre for the hail.

There’s a lot to cover here but will have to do so later. FWIW, it’s true, I am a proponent of Atmos, but don’t read that as fanboi. It’s not perfect.
Anyway, I’d like to drop in later and share my thinks. Lol
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree. If you are doing Atmos you have to use ceiling speakers, and all speakers must be placed to Dolby specs.

Having said that I have found the greatest benefit is the new upmixers providing a much more realistic ambient environment.

All the same though Hacksaw Ridge was pretty impressive!
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
thanks to Gene and the Audioholics YouTube videos I finally realize I'm not crazy, and Atmos can be very underwhelming compared to other formats like Neural or Dolby Surround. I thought there was something wrong with my system when Atmos content would rarely put sound in my front height speakers, and when it did, it's pretty faint/quick. I would just assume change my Apple 4K TV box streaming format off of "best quality/Atmos" and upmix in my Denon 1600 receiver to Dolby Surround or Neural that makes use of the height speakers. But before I do, is there some other benefit to the Atmos/object based sound format other than a signal occasionally going to the height (or ceiling for those that have those) speakers? As in, are the ground speakers (front L/R, rear surrounds, center) getting a different kind of mix with this object based format vs. just using Dolby Surround, Neural, or other formats? Kinda feeling duped by the Atmos hype, although I know all I have is front height speakers above the front L/R (5.1.2) so perhaps without in-ceiling it's not worth the bother.
Prior to getting a atmos set up at home...I was fortunate enough to demo two atmos systems at the same dealer...a Klipsch 7.1.4 with speaker top atmos speakers and the other room was a Paradigm in ceiling setup..also 7.1.4...same demo content.

Gravity and John Wick were the two demo movies....they had the Klipsch room set up and calibrated to enhance the atmos and I'm sure the Paradigm room as well as they were promoting Dolby Atmos, but the one scene in JW where it was raining hard and Keanu Reeves was inside a small shack with a galvanize roof...you could hear it in the Klipsch room, but the rain sound off the tin roof was far more convincing or realistic with the in ceiling speakers.

A good friend has the Klipsch system with speaker top atmos so I've since gotten to hear his several times now...it's better than no atmos imo, but it's never going to be as good as in ceiling.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
thanks to Gene and the Audioholics YouTube videos I finally realize I'm not crazy, and Atmos can be very underwhelming compared to other formats like Neural or Dolby Surround. I thought there was something wrong with my system when Atmos content would rarely put sound in my front height speakers, and when it did, it's pretty faint/quick. I would just assume change my Apple 4K TV box streaming format off of "best quality/Atmos" and upmix in my Denon 1600 receiver to Dolby Surround or Neural that makes use of the height speakers. But before I do, is there some other benefit to the Atmos/object based sound format other than a signal occasionally going to the height (or ceiling for those that have those) speakers? As in, are the ground speakers (front L/R, rear surrounds, center) getting a different kind of mix with this object based format vs. just using Dolby Surround, Neural, or other formats? Kinda feeling duped by the Atmos hype, although I know all I have is front height speakers above the front L/R (5.1.2) so perhaps without in-ceiling it's not worth the bother.
Underwhelming until you are caught in a thunder shower and feel the chill of cold rain falling upon you.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
You stated your front height speakers are up front but by the ceiling?
You are using that Denon 1600 and trying to reproduce Atmos?
Is this correct?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
It was from the 4K BD.
I have the regular BD and it is first class. The first scene where the destroyer “softens” the ridge, with I believe 16” guns is awesome. Those shells come from far behind my room, and go right over my head to somewhere beyond my display. From there, it just keeps going. Superb.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
FWIW, it’s true, I am a proponent of Atmos, but don’t read that as fanboi. It’s not perfect.
For sure. That's why I put the qualifier "done well" in with my statement. It's gotta be done correctly and you need the right content too.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
thanks to Gene and the Audioholics YouTube videos I finally realize I'm not crazy, and Atmos can be very underwhelming compared to other formats like Neural or Dolby Surround. I thought there was something wrong with my system when Atmos content would rarely put sound in my front height speakers, and when it did, it's pretty faint/quick. I would just assume change my Apple 4K TV box streaming format off of "best quality/Atmos" and upmix in my Denon 1600 receiver to Dolby Surround or Neural that makes use of the height speakers. But before I do, is there some other benefit to the Atmos/object based sound format other than a signal occasionally going to the height (or ceiling for those that have those) speakers? As in, are the ground speakers (front L/R, rear surrounds, center) getting a different kind of mix with this object based format vs. just using Dolby Surround, Neural, or other formats? Kinda feeling duped by the Atmos hype, although I know all I have is front height speakers above the front L/R (5.1.2) so perhaps without in-ceiling it's not worth the bother.
Not sure where to begin!
So for me, content is king. Like any format there are great examples, and stinkers too. Also, the people mixing have different schools of thought, so some tread lightly, and some let loose. The aforementioned Hacksaw Ridge is a great example. On the other side, Atomic blonde in DTS-X is great too(although the lfe track has been neutered and is embarrassing). There are actually hundreds of titles. And again, some are better than others, not every title will hit you in the head. That’s also not the point.
So next, what are your speakers, and how are they set up? That’s pretty important, although the format IS pretty forgiving. From reading your post, it sounds like the .2 are up where the ceiling meets the wall. This could be problematic since you might not have a high enough ceiling to separate from the bed layer. The other thing is the .2 might be behind the mains too. IMO, that will make it almost impossible to track objects on XYZ coordinates.(not all films utilize objects very well). So I’m curious as to you setup. One thing that’s easy to do is raise the level of the .2 speakers(if you haven’t yet) to see if they give a more immersive experience.
And, as mark said, the upmixers are really very good. Taking regular 7/5.1 titles and giving them new life. On top of that, one of my favorite things about Atmos is how my room disappears. The bubble of sound can be very seamless with the tiniest little sounds punctuating almost anywhere. To be fair, my system is 7.3.4 with my .4 in the tops positions. Good options put “height speakers at the sides of the room, where the wall meets the ceiling 45° for and aft the LP. To me that’s almost as good as tops. In fact I think even if using only .2, high on the sides is better than the from wall, even though it IS a supported setup. I would recommend that you move yours high and to the sides, roughly a couple feet in front of the couch(depending on ceiling height).

FWIW, every single time my tv goes on, I’m in surround. Judge judy, wheel of fortune, FX, Mad Mad fury road in BD...you name it, it’s in surround. So I’ve spent a LOT of time being critical, and tuning my somewhat pedestrian system. FWIW, not everything is super crazy awesome, but Atmos is definitely something I’m excited about.
Here’s some reading in case you are interested.


PS. I KNOW I’ve forgotten a few points to be made. Maybe they’ll come later.
I hope you can get your setup to deliver for you. IMO it IS worth the bother, but you might just have to get a little dirty to get there.
 
Last edited:
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
It was from the 4K BD.
Thanks. I think the op is streaming and a non Atmos receiver along with non Atmos speaker location.
No wonder it sound bad. Besides, overhead sound, unless stable will move across the arc as it should.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
For sure. That's why I put the qualifier "done well" in with my statement. It's gotta be done correctly and you need the right content too.
Heard! I just felt I should be clear that I’m not on a soapbox flappin away about how great it is , without pointing out that it definitely has flaws.
You get them DT’s mounted you yet? :neener:
Lmao...
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Also to consider is as mentioned in ceilings are important but also correct in ceiling speakers and correct placement is key

What I mean by correct speakers is in ceilings need to have a great off axis response with very wide dispersion otherwise you lose a lot of energy and response the further your off them

In ceiling speakers are challenged by this but a lot of companies have made speakers better built for this such as triads in ceiling speakers that have a very good angle to the listener built in to them some have aimable tweeters to help

I would prefer something like the JTR Noesis 110HT-SL a speaker that can be mounted externally on the ceiling with a slant to the listener with a coaxial design but speakers like that are not cheap either
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
thanks to Gene and the Audioholics YouTube videos I finally realize I'm not crazy, and Atmos can be very underwhelming compared to other formats like Neural or Dolby Surround. I thought there was something wrong with my system when Atmos content would rarely put sound in my front height speakers, and when it did, it's pretty faint/quick. I would just assume change my Apple 4K TV box streaming format off of "best quality/Atmos" and upmix in my Denon 1600 receiver to Dolby Surround or Neural that makes use of the height speakers. But before I do, is there some other benefit to the Atmos/object based sound format other than a signal occasionally going to the height (or ceiling for those that have those) speakers? As in, are the ground speakers (front L/R, rear surrounds, center) getting a different kind of mix with this object based format vs. just using Dolby Surround, Neural, or other formats? Kinda feeling duped by the Atmos hype, although I know all I have is front height speakers above the front L/R (5.1.2) so perhaps without in-ceiling it's not worth the bother.
The whole, you must have in ceiling speakers for Atmos, per Dolby's spec, in my opinion is one of the big downfall of the Dolby Atmos system. In real life there's just isn't a lot of over head sounds so sound-mixers understandably don't put lot activity there. It would just be too gimmicky if they were to do so.
 

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