ASR review of Pioneer VSX-LX505 (Onkyo RZ50)

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thank You , Gene.
I'm sure all of us Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra owners (that's a lot of owners) wouldn't mind seeing this addressed in one of your videos.
It is a bit concerning when a major audio website has just told all of us said owners we have been had.
What is "have been had" mean particularly? They don't disclose such a possibility and return to normal operating conditions if tripped?
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
What is "have been had" mean particularly? They don't disclose such a possibility and return to normal operating conditions if tripped?
The way Amir states it is like Gene just did...you have to unplug it to get full output back.
How many users would even know this has happened or that it even could happen ?
Over on ASR forum some are calling for FTC related lawsuits and such...no one wants to hear that they just bought what some have deemed a defective product.
I couldn't get my Pioneer to do this when I tried though....as far as I can tell.
Those of us that use the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra threads on AVS forums are hearing about this for the first time.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The way Amir states it is like Gene just did...you have to unplug it to get full output back.
How many users would even know this has happened or that it even could happen ?
Over on ASR forum some are calling for FTC related lawsuits and such...no one wants to hear that they just bought what some have deemed a defective product.
I couldn't get my Pioneer to do this when I tried though....as far as I can tell.
While I'm more thinking it would rarely be tripped....I haven't checked the troubleshooting section of the manual otoh. I'd think if you tripped this it would be obvious as you'd need to power cycle it (not just go into standby and out)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
The way Amir states it is like Gene just did...you have to unplug it to get full output back.
How many users would even know this has happened or that it even could happen ?
Over on ASR forum some are calling for FTC related lawsuits and such...no one wants to hear that they just bought what some have deemed a defective product.
I couldn't get my Pioneer to do this when I tried though....as far as I can tell.
Those of us that use the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra threads on AVS forums are hearing about this for the first time.
The FTC won't do jack squat. I already created a call to action to the FTC and had petitions signed to uphold the 2CH amp ruling. We even had the fellow chair of the FTC comment on this. I love how ASR thinks they discovered something new that we covered years ago. LOL.

Again, the nanny circuits suck but in reality they don't impact most real world usage cases. I will continue to lobby manufacturers to ease these up as possible but it doesn't take away from the fact that these are still good products and work as intended for their application.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
The FTC won't do jack squat. I already created a call to action to the FTC and had petitions signed to uphold the 2CH amp ruling. We even had the fellow chair of the FTC comment on this. I love how ASR thinks they discovered something new that we covered years ago. LOL.

Again, the nanny circuits suck but in reality they don't impact most real world usage cases. I will continue to lobby manufacturers to ease these up as possible but it doesn't take away from the fact that these are still good products and work as intended for their application.
Thanks again, Gene.
I just knew that coming here would set my mind at ease !!
(If you ever do address this in a video, try to have a Pink Panther figurine somewhere in frame) ;)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I browse ASR occasionally.....
After about 10 minutes the whole site reminds me of the customers that would walk into the Hi Fi shops I used to work at with a copy of Stereo Review or High Fidelity mags, ready to shove charts and graphs at me.
I usually just drop kicked them.;)
Then again most audio sales people deserve to be drop kicked....
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Then again most audio sales people deserve to be drop kicked....
I miss the days when every big town had a slew of audio shops. I'm near Pittsburgh and have fond memories of hearing the first Advent speakers at the long gone Opus One shop downtown.

Now we get 18 year old experts at BestBuy.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I miss the days when every big town had a slew of audio shops. I'm near Pittsburgh and have fond memories of hearing the first Advent speakers at the long gone Opus One shop downtown.

Now we get 18 year old experts at BestBuy.
Even back then there were some that still needed a little kick. I was a kid in the candy shop with audio gear at various shops in the early 70s in SF. I did buy the Advents, too. Definitely times have changed....
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
The FTC won't do jack squat. I already created a call to action to the FTC and had petitions signed to uphold the 2CH amp ruling. We even had the fellow chair of the FTC comment on this. I love how ASR thinks they discovered something new that we covered years ago. LOL.

Again, the nanny circuits suck but in reality they don't impact most real world usage cases. I will continue to lobby manufacturers to ease these up as possible but it doesn't take away from the fact that these are still good products and work as intended for their application.
Gene Youthman posted this and it's a wonderful example of what you are saying. Helps me understand why you and others here take the measurements ASR does with a grain of salt


Honestly I appreciate the work ASR is doing I'm a member on that site. But thanks to this site I know that really any AVR coming out lately I can buy with confidence it will sound well and work as intended. So I can relax when Im shopping and do what @lovinthehd always encourages members with questions to do. Find which feature sets I want at the price points I'm willing to spend

Good stuff guys good conversation
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Gene Youthman posted this and it's a wonderful example of what you are saying. Helps me understand why you and others here take the measurements ASR does with a grain of salt


Honestly I appreciate the work ASR is doing I'm a member on that site. But thanks to this site I know that really any AVR coming out lately I can buy with confidence it will sound well and work as intended. So I can relax when Im shopping and do what @lovinthehd always encourages members with questions to do. Find which feature sets I want at the price points I'm willing to spend

Good stuff guys good conversation
I just realized if ASR catches wind of this post by Youthman it's going to set of some serious flame wars over there. :oops:
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I just realized if ASR catches wind of this post by Youthman it's going to set of some serious flame wars over there. :oops:
Is this "youthman" worth watching, tho (and who the hell is he in real life)? Maybe if you provide a minute mark to focus in on his particular comment...
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Is this "youthman" worth watching, tho (and who the hell is he in real life)? Maybe if you provide a minute mark to focus in on his particular comment...
Good point I want to reply back but I got to get going! I'll jump back in here later when I get back home
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Is this "youthman" worth watching, tho (and who the hell is he in real life)? Maybe if you provide a minute mark to focus in on his particular comment...
He's pretty good....knowledgeable without beating you over the head with measurements.
At least he doesn't evaluate speakers with Megadeth like some Cheap guy does.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
He's pretty good....knowledgeable without beating you over the head with measurements.
At least he doesn't evaluate speakers with Megadeth like some Cheap guy does.
Pretty good with/about what, tho? There are so many useless youtubers, particularly in audio....

ps think I tried this guy a while back and turned him off pretty quick....I get annoyed easily :)
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Pretty good with/about what, tho? There are so many useless youtubers, particularly in audio....

ps think I tried this guy a while back and turned him off pretty quick....I get annoyed easily :)
Like a lot of them, I get tired of seeing their faces and not the equipment....like Randy (The Cheapaudioman)
He needs to do something with that nasty beard. o_O
For good basic info explained by someone who has been there, done that... I like...
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Oh f*ck no, not Paul McClown. I call his company BS Audio.
He is old school, that's for sure.
I liked that he thinks like i do that streaming audio sounds like poopoo.....I tried Tidal (for 30 minutes) Horrid stuff.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Gene Youthman posted this and it's a wonderful example of what you are saying. Helps me understand why you and others here take the measurements ASR does with a grain of salt


Honestly I appreciate the work ASR is doing I'm a member on that site. But thanks to this site I know that really any AVR coming out lately I can buy with confidence it will sound well and work as intended. So I can relax when Im shopping and do what @lovinthehd always encourages members with questions to do. Find which feature sets I want at the price points I'm willing to spend

Good stuff guys good conversation
Thanks for sharing the Youthman video. Good stuff. Hope he's ready for the ASR SINAD disciples backlash to ensue.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I just realized if ASR catches wind of this post by Youthman it's going to set of some serious flame wars over there. :oops:
It's there already. If Amir took a more diplomatic approach, he could have said the same things without getting misunderstood (unintentionally or intentionally by others) so badly. As it is now, unless people (e.g. me, HD, and a few other AH members) read the fine prints and try to interpret his comments as is, without seeing it through wearing tinted glasses, might just believe the hearsay, such as, tell people not to buy something because of SINAD, ASR cult, ASR people focus too much, or only on SINAD, ASR/Amir doesn't understand distortions are poor indicator of sound quality etc.etc.etc... The fact is, he has often made reference to audibility along with what he considered non sota results, such as:

For example, below is what he said about the 3800:

He did not recommend it, and explained why, but that's not the same as telling people not to buy one, and never implied the 3800 would not sound as good as the 3700 with the original AKM DAC.

Denon had been my "goto" recommendation for AVRs and even AVPs. When anyone asked me about either, I would just say "get a Denon AVR." While subjectively the performance of this new generation may be similar, I can't accept the regression in objective measured performance.

It is with much sadness that I cannot recommend the Denon AVR-X3800H.
In another example, he actually recommended the AV8805, even said ".....buy......" despite the significantly lower SINAD score than even the much cheaper Denon AVRs. So clearly other metrics than just SINAD are important to consider.

I would say buy the Marantz AV8805 because it has the features it has not because you think it will provide reference quality audio performance. It will not.
One more, on "more jitter on coax" (Anthem AVM70):

Fortunately levels are below threshold of hearing so not an audible impact.
On ranking, ASR does keep a chart of ranking by SINAD but that does not mean he considers SINAD the only important metric. For the exact reason for that chart one would have to ask him, but it could simply be that THD+N is one metric that probably all reviewers use for years, including the old S&V, Home theater magazines, Stereophile, Home cinema choice, Hometheaterhifi.com, SoundstageHifi etc., just to name a few.

There are numerous other examples. I don't need to defend him anyway. I just want to do my part to debunk some of the hearsay. I also know my efforts in doing so bound to be in vain because I don't have megaphones that many youtubers do.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
He is old school, that's for sure.
I liked that he thinks like i do that streaming audio sounds like poopoo.....I tried Tidal (for 30 minutes) Horrid stuff.
He's just a salesman. Streaming doesn't sound like poo (unless something is wrong, settings wise or something)...Tidal is fine altho I think their MQA nonsense is just bullshit. I trialed Tidal at one point, more the choices and user interface and JayZ's ads that turned me off. Paul sells power cords and wires as improvements to audio, just a bullshitter....plus his gear doesn't measure particularly well.
 

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