ASR review of Pioneer VSX-LX505 (Onkyo RZ50)

[PENG]

I don't know how to feel about Amir myself.
He has technical knowledge, no doubt. But, he has just as much of an elitist attitude.
Rather than try to get to the bottom of the Pioneers results, he just called it junk. No skin off his nose.
He didn't even use it as it was intended.

I think most people who believe more in the subjective reviews such as many youtubers including Youthman, Robinson, N Tell etc., then like Timforhifi, you won't like to pay attention to Amir's reviews that are mostly (>90%?) about specs and measurements.

For people who trust much more on facts and science, they will be more forgiving I suppose..
To me, I have no trouble making my purchasing decision based on lots of facts and data, without actually listening to the gear. Even loudspeakers, I never auditioned Dennis Murphy's BMR speakers but I was 100% confidence that they will sound good to me, and they do. Specs and measurements rule!!

Subjective reviews mean very little to me, but I think they can be somewhat useful. If the vast majority of those subjective reviewers say the gear sound good, then chances are good that those gear won't sound bad to me, but that's about it. Peter Walker did not rely on listening tests in designing his famous Quad amps, and I like that kind of attitude and confidence.

By the way, aside from Gene, I have yet to see one Youtuber reviewers who I think has adequate technical knowledge to comment on things that I would like to know about the products.

Youthman is a very good host for some of his videos, but I came across one bad example of his, when he compared "separates vs AVRs" In one I thought he, and his guest were really bad in making their points about how the AV7705 was so much better than the SR8015 used in preamp mode. In another video when he invited two other gentlemen, while he still maintained his same points as he did before, he was much more objective in stating his case. Even then, I was glad he had to be reminded that unless he did blind tests, blablabla...., then kind of kept him more inline for the rest of the video.

Here's the link to that second, better, more objective one on AVR vs Separates, the other two participants are far less subjective than what I expected, no idea who they are:

AVR vs Separates - Can You Hear a Difference? - Bing video

So if anyone knows of any good YT audio gear reviewers who are technically knowledgeable, I would really like to know. As it is, there is only one Gene. Gene needs to do more videos, preferably more for the advanced/experienced AV enthusiasts. Most of the others I have watched, would say things that didn't make sense to me, and showed they should not have commented in ways well above their pay grade (again, I mean technically..).

 

[Trell]

So if anyone knows of any good YT audio gear reviewers who are technically knowledgeable, I would really like to know.

If you include non-HiFi audio gear reviews you've a bigger pool of reviewers, similar to the following one https://www.youtube.com/@JulianKrause/videos that also does some measurements.

 

[Timforhifi]

I want to see the data and their experience with how they perceived how it sounds. Amir has some useful tests but he lost a lot of credibility with me. I’d have to go back to around few years ago and he had an avr with a bad review and was really tearing it apart. So I kept reading the posts and a few pages later he pops up and admits his testing gear was hooked up the wrong way and this avr was an open box unit that is actually defective and needs service. So this review was never changed or updated, just there as false information. I think people should buy multiple avrs and test them. Every 4-5 years or whenever it’s upgrade time buy 3-4 avrs. Right now try denon 3800, onkyo rz50, Marantz Cinema 50 or whatever you like. Return the ones you don’t like. Be your own reviewer and you decide what you like.

 

[Trell]

I think people should buy multiple avrs and test them. Every 4-5 years or whenever it’s upgrade time buy 3-4 avrs. Right now try denon 3800, onkyo rz50, Marantz Cinema 50 or whatever you like. Return the ones you don’t like. Be your own reviewer and you decide what you like

I’m no fan of doing this, to be honest, and find it sort of an abuse of the return policies.

When I buy online it’s with the intention to keep the device, but I do return if it does not live up to expectations.

When it comes to speakers and microphone there is much more of a case to test multiple of them, but even then be conservative on the number of them.

 

[isolar8001]

I think most people who believe more in the subjective reviews such as many youtubers including Youthman, Robinson, N Tell etc., then like Timforhifi, you won't like to pay attention to Amir's reviews that are mostly (>90%?) about specs and measurements.

For people who trust much more on facts and science, they will be more forgiving I suppose..
To me, I have no trouble making my purchasing decision based on lots of facts and data, without actually listening to the gear. Even loudspeakers, I never auditioned Dennis Murphy's BMR speakers but I was 100% confidence that they will sound good to me, and they do. Specs and measurements rule!!

Subjective reviews mean very little to me, but I think they can be somewhat useful. If the vast majority of those subjective reviewers say the gear sound good, then chances are good that those gear won't sound bad to me, but that's about it. Peter Walker did not rely on listening tests in designing his famous Quad amps, and I like that kind of attitude and confidence.

By the way, aside from Gene, I have yet to see one Youtuber reviewers who I think has adequate technical knowledge to comment on things that I would like to know about the products.

Youthman is a very good host for some of his videos, but I came across one bad example of his, when he compared "separates vs AVRs" In one I thought he, and his guest were really bad in making their points about how the AV7705 was so much better than the SR8015 used in preamp mode. In another video when he invited two other gentlemen, while he still maintained his same points as he did before, he was much more objective in stating his case. Even then, I was glad he had to be reminded that unless he did blind tests, blablabla...., then kind of kept him more inline for the rest of the video.

Here's the link to that second, better, more objective one on AVR vs Separates, the other two participants are far less subjective than what I expected, no idea who they are:

AVR vs Separates - Can You Hear a Difference? - Bing video

So if anyone knows of any good YT audio gear reviewers who are technically knowledgeable, I would really like to know. As it is, there is only one Gene. Gene needs to do more videos, preferably more for the advanced/experienced AV enthusiasts. Most of the others I have watched, would say things that didn't make sense to me, and showed they should not have commented in ways well above their pay grade (again, I mean technically..).

Oh believe me, in my 50 years of doing this I've seen both sides of the tracks.
Of course in the "old days" (pre-internet) it was much more of an adventure. You had to find a shop with a salesperson who wasn't on commission and have a go at it.
I got lucky and got to work at a few of the best shops in my area for around 10 years circa' 87-97.
There is just no substitute for hands on. Especially when it comes to speakers. We took used equipment in towards new...I saw and used just about everything. (Please come back Luxman !!)

Personally, while I respect the "measure first" approach to comparing/evaluating equipment, the measured differences between things like similarly priced AVR's, CD Players etc...are minute. The way they sound and operate in the home though can be vastly different. I'm just ranting, you know all this.

See what you think of this guy....(Im retired..I've got nothing better to do than watch YouTube all the time )

https://www.youtube.com/@PursuitPerfectSystem/videos

 

[rsharp]

I've lost a lot of trust in Pioneer in recent years. At one point, I was looking at the VSX-LX505, but four things made me move on to other brands:

1. Mixed HDMI input capabilities. I do applaud Pioneer's full disclosure in details for their HDMI inputs (e.g. page 206 of the user manual). There, they reveal that only 3 of the 6 inputs are full bandwidth 40 Gbps HDMI 2.1. The other two only support up to 24 Gbps. And the front input is HDMI 2.0 with 9 Gbps. But this setup is a deal-killer for my needs.

2. They no longer use class-D amps. One of the selling points of my current SC-91 was in the use of class-D. Really like the lower heat generation.

3. A decline in quality over the years. When I first started out with Pioneer equipment over 30 years ago, I felt the build quality was much better. Especially in the Elite line. While I don't need copper screws, all inputs being gold plated and having a copper chassis, it was nice to see those additions. Now, even in their Elite line, you just don't see those items. So where else are they cutting back? Probably in everything.

4. Exiting various businesses. They exited the TV market many years ago, but I also see that they now don't make much at all. Compared to many years ago where they made several source components, TVs, speakers, etc. Makes you wonder just what their future is.

 

[isolar8001]

I've lost a lot of trust in Pioneer in recent years. At one point, I was looking at the VSX-LX505, but four things made me move on to other brands:

1. Mixed HDMI input capabilities. I do applaud Pioneer's full disclosure in details for their HDMI inputs (e.g. page 206 of the user manual). There, they reveal that only 3 of the 6 inputs are full bandwidth 40 Gbps HDMI 2.1. The other two only support up to 24 Gbps. And the front input is HDMI 2.0 with 9 Gbps. But this setup is a deal-killer for my needs.

2. They no longer use class-D amps. One of the selling points of my current SC-91 was in the use of class-D. Really like the lower heat generation.

3. A decline in quality over the years. When I first started out with Pioneer equipment over 30 years ago, I felt the build quality was much better. Especially in the Elite line. While I don't need copper screws, all inputs being gold plated and having a copper chassis, it was nice to see those additions. Now, even in their Elite line, you just don't see those items. So where else are they cutting back? Probably in everything.

4. Exiting various businesses. They exited the TV market many years ago, but I also see that they now don't make much at all. Compared to many years ago where they made several source components, TVs, speakers, etc. Makes you wonder just what their future is.

This is why I say Luxman Come Back. Can you imagine a modern multichannel version of the R115/117 ?
(I know Luxman is still around)
All of these similarly priced AVR's are of the same build quality generally...everything has gotten cheaper.
Soundwise...they are different.
I tried a Yamaha and a Denon before the Pioneer.

Yamaha sounded OK...It was one of the ones with the 2.1 bug though. Nothing worked properly..bugs galore. Lots of cool sonic trickery though.
Denon sounded OK, it sounded like Denon always has...can't fault it except I didn't know it doubled as a space heater. Didn't care for the trickery like Dynamic EQ.
Pioneer sounds fantastic...regardless of what amp its using. I haven't even ran Dirac yet after 5 months (finally ran MCACC)...something I wouldn't have dreamed of doing with Yamaha or Denon. I was happy dialing the Pioneer in by ear actually.

 

[Swerd]

Based on this fact alone, I would bet he [Amir] would have no trouble agreeing with those gentleman in the Youthman video. He allegedly "ridiculous" stand on SINAD has always been, as he stated many times, not mostly about audibility, but about "engineering excellence".

Saying "audibility" vs. "engineering excellence" is one way of speaking about those differences. Another way, is to say "good enough to do the job" vs. "state-of-the-art designs".

Which you prefer depends on your view toward costs. Does "engineering excellence" or "state-of-the-art design" come only at a very high price? Or can it come at a reasonable price? In my opinion, true "engineering excellence" comes when manufacturing costs are balanced with design, whereas "state-of-the-art design" implies that excessive cost is not considered a design flaw. Many can design a "state-of-the-art design" for receivers or amps. But if they come at an excessive cost, they can't be thought of as "engineering excellence" – and they won't sell well.

I believe you understand the difference. But I have to wonder about Amir. He certainly should understand the difference. But based on the reviews he writes, I don't feel confident about that.

There is a large and vocal amen chorus that frequents ASR. They often come right out and directly say what Amir alludes to, but doesn't directly say. He rarely, if ever, disagrees with them.

… Amir has some useful tests but he lost a lot of credibility with me. I’d have to go back to around few years ago and he had an avr with a bad review and was really tearing it apart. So I kept reading the posts and a few pages later he pops up and admits his testing gear was hooked up the wrong way and this avr was an open box unit that is actually defective and needs service. So this review was never changed or updated, just there as false information.

Thanks for providing that. I can recall him doing similar things in the past, but with loudspeakers. Things like that led me to believe that Amir doesn't like admitting he is wrong. As a result, he doesn't feel the need to double check his work for errors, much less proof-read or edit his own posts.

 

[Trell]

Which you prefer depends on your view toward costs. Does "engineering excellence" or "state-of-the-art design" come only at a very high price? Or can it come at a reasonable price? In my opinion, true "engineering excellence" comes when manufacturing costs are balanced with design, whereas "state-of-the-art design" implies that excessive cost is not considered a design flaw. Many can design a "state-of-the-art design" for receivers or amps. But if they come at an excessive cost, they can't be thought of as "engineering excellence" – and they won't sell well.

Looking at the measurements of a number of audio devices on ASR for desktop usage like DACs and headphone amplifiers, for instance, one can see that there are many SOTA devices at very reasonable prices, as performance goes.

 

[PENG]

Saying "audibility" vs. "engineering excellence" is one way of speaking about those differences. Another way, is to say "good enough to do the job" vs. "state-of-the-art designs".

Which you prefer depends on your view toward costs. Does "engineering excellence" or "state-of-the-art design" come only at a very high price? Or can it come at a reasonable price? In my opinion, true "engineering excellence" comes when manufacturing costs are balanced with design, whereas "state-of-the-art design" implies that excessive cost is not considered a design flaw. Many can design a "state-of-the-art design" for receivers or amps. But if they come at an excessive cost, they can't be thought of as "engineering excellence" – and they won't sell well.

I believe you understand the difference. But I have to wonder about Amir. He certainly should understand the difference. But based on the reviews he writes, I don't feel confident about that.

There is a large and vocal amen chorus that frequents ASR. They often come right out and directly say what Amir alludes to, but doesn't directly say. He rarely, if ever, disagrees with them.
Thanks for providing that. I can recall him doing similar things in the past, but with loudspeakers. Things like that led me to believe that Amir doesn't like admitting he is wrong. As a result, he doesn't feel the need to double check his work for errors, much less proof-read or edit his own posts.

I agree with you for the most part, except in the case of the AVR-X3800H, we know

a) cost is unlikely a key factor in this specific case, because even the entry level Denon/Marantz AVRs have been using the AK4458 DAC since around 2016, and until early 2000 when they started replacement the IC with the PCM5102A and that appears to be the reason why SINAD of the pre out/dac section took a hit of >10 dB. Keep in mind that going from 2 pieces of the 8 channel AK4458 to 8 pieces of the two channel PCM5102A that also has very different pin configurations, you would think that the total costs would probably be higher, not lower anyway, unless TI offered then a great discount for those aging ICs. Surely they have their reasons but we will never know what they are.

b) cost of the X3800H seems to have gone up in concert with inflation.

c) Others such as Anthem, Yamaha, Onkyo, surely were subject to the AKM DAC ICs shortage, yet they did not let their performance suffer, versus their 2016 through 2020 models.

So in this case, it seems that D+M sort of shrug their shoulders and say to themselves, no one can hear the difference just because we use an IC that has lower specs.. Yet, for their upcoming flagship A1H, they actually upgraded the DAC IC to the ES9018Q2M, if the PCM5102A will "sound" just as good (and I actually believe they do for real world use), then why would they bother going with the much more expensive ES9018Q2M. Even Yamaha's CX-A5200 and RX-A8A did not use such a higher end DAC IC.

I think in the case of Denon, we know a) the drop in measured performance drop appears to correspond to the drop in specs of the dac chips used in the 2017,18,19 and early 2020 models, b) prices have gone up and appears in line with inflation numbers, and ) their competitors such as Anthem, Onkyo, Yamaha have to deal with the dac chips shortage resulting from the AKM factory fire too, but the did not resort to using replacement chip that has lower specs. So I think those who don't like the "regression" have a valid point. Over at ASR, one guy posted his counter points to the gentlemen in that video. I thought at least some of those points are valid.

Again, I agree with you for the most part.

 

[noway]

If buyers don't understand the importance of the word "continuous" in power amp specs then companies consider those customers as being lambs ready for the slaughterhouse. The first to enter the slaughterhouse will be the ones who buy amps spec'd at 1kHz instead of 20Hz-20kHz and who pay no attention to stuff like THD, "all channels driven", impedance, etc. Let the buyer beware. Shrinkflation, spec fudging, shortcuts in build quality, unrepairable products, etc. are alive and well! Do your homework.

 

[PENG]

SINAD does make it "look" more severe....and I can't do that SINAD to THD+N in percentage conversion in my head (yet)....

That may be to some, but opposite to others. As someone posted before, there are easier way to remember the dB to % equivalents:

I prefer the dB scale because it is easier to relate it to "audibility", since we are used to think dB in terms of SPL, not %.

-100 dB...............................0.001%
-95 dB.................................0.0018%
-90 dB.................................0.0032%
-85 dB.................................0.0056%
-80 dB.................................0.01%
-75 dB.................................0.048%
-60 dB.................................0.1%
-40 dB.................................1%

So the easy way to remember is to think in terms of decimal points, -100 dB is 0.001%, for every increase of 20 dB, you lose one "decimal point/0". So to get to -60 dB, you lose 2 decimal points, and end up with 0.1%.

For audibility, no one knows for sure, but the following seems quite reasonable:

- 100 dB means if the room's noise floor is 0 dB, and you listen to reference level, then during the near silent scenes/passages, you may hear something such as noise. Yes there will be masking by the ambient noise but people with no hearing loss can hear spl of 0 dB and/or slightly below 0 dB.

- 80 dB is definitely audible if it is mostly noise in rooms with the typical 20 to 30 dB noise floor. For example, if I cranked pass -10 on my Marantz AV8801 I could hear hiss, but with the AVR-X4400H I could not, unless my ears were within an inch to my 89 dB sensitive speakers.

- 60 dB and higher THD may be detectable to trained good ears, but depending on the harmonic structure, some will not like it, but many may love it.

I think we can never settle on whether THD+N is a good indicator as it depends on many things, but anyone can understand if "N" such as hiss is to be inaudible, then it is advisable to avoid devices that has SINAD lower than 80, or 85 dB if one wants to allow for the possibility of using speakers with higher than average sensitivity such as >92 dB/2.83V/m. Again, for distortions it is different because detectable/audible distortions can sound good to a lot of people including the highly trained ears.

 

[Trell]

That may be to some, but opposite to others. As someone posted before, there are easier way to remember the dB to % equivalents:

I prefer the dB scale because it is easier to relate it to "audibility", since we are used to think dB in terms of SPL, not %.

-100 dB...............................0.001%
-95 dB.................................0.0018%
-90 dB.................................0.0032%
-85 dB.................................0.0056%
-80 dB.................................0.01%
-75 dB.................................0.048%
-60 dB.................................0.1%
-40 dB.................................1%

So the easy way to remember is to think in terms of decimal points, -100 dB is 0.001%, for every increase of 20 dB, you lose one "decimal point/0". So to get to -60 dB, you lose 2 decimal points, and end up with 0.1%.

For audibility, no one knows for sure, but the following seems quite reasonable:

- 100 dB means if the room's noise floor is 0 dB, and you listen to reference level, then during the near silent scenes/passages, you may hear something such as noise. Yes there will be masking by the ambient noise but people with no hearing loss can hear spl of 0 dB and/or slightly below 0 dB.

- 80 dB is definitely audible if it is mostly noise in rooms with the typical 20 to 30 dB noise floor. For example, if I cranked pass -10 on my Marantz AV8801 I could hear hiss, but with the AVR-X4400H I could not, unless my ears were within an inch to my 89 dB sensitive speakers.

- 60 dB and higher THD may be detectable to trained good ears, but depending on the harmonic structure, some will not like it, but many may love it.

I think we can never settle on whether THD+N is a good indicator as it depends on many things, but anyone can understand if "N" such as hiss is to be inaudible, then it is advisable to avoid devices that has SINAD lower than 80, or 85 dB if one wants to allow for the possibility of using speakers with higher than average sensitivity such as >92 dB/2.83V/m. Again, for distortions it is different because detectable/audible distortions can sound good to a lot of people including the highly trained ears.

Some people just focus on the distortion part of SINAD/THD+N and “forgets” the noise part so it becomes interchangeable with THD in their posts and minds.

A question like “What if the SINAD is noise dominated?” does not necessarily give a good answer.

As for % to dB conversion I just use this calculator, that you of course already know:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

 

[PENG]

Some people just focus on the distortion part of SINAD/THD+N and “forgets” the noise part so it becomes interchangeable with THD in their posts and minds.

A question like “What if the SINAD is noise dominated?” does not necessarily give a good answer.

As for % to dB conversion I just use this calculator, that you of course already know:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm

That's my favorite site, it's the only site that I know of that covers pretty much all audio related calculations. I do my own calculations 99% of the time, but I do rely on that site to check mine for correctness.

 

[jinjuku]

I want to see the data and their experience with how they perceived how it sounds. Amir has some useful tests but he lost a lot of credibility with me. I’d have to go back to around few years ago and he had an avr with a bad review and was really tearing it apart. So I kept reading the posts and a few pages later he pops up and admits his testing gear was hooked up the wrong way and this avr was an open box unit that is actually defective and needs service. So this review was never changed or updated, just there as false information. I think people should buy multiple avrs and test them. Every 4-5 years or whenever it’s upgrade time buy 3-4 avrs. Right now try denon 3800, onkyo rz50, Marantz Cinema 50 or whatever you like. Return the ones you don’t like. Be your own reviewer and you decide what you like.

Funny as last year I was in a knock down, drag out at ASR about mis-perception about AH and Gene's approach to monetization.

Amir's not perfect and his way of combating it is transparency. If he's mistaken in a measurement run he adds editorial notes to it.

If he's off path on what kind of measurements to take he'll take feedback and incorporate it (multi-tone testing a good example.

If something is off about how he measured something then the measurement rubric is publicly posted for someone to replicate and prove him incorrect.

I'll leave the post with this question: Where at are you going to find data this in depth? I'll take Amir over John Atkinson any day of the week. I can't believe the absolute garbage measurements he's made and he still won't call out a manufacturer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

- 80 dB is definitely audible if it is mostly noise in rooms with the typical 20 to 30 dB noise floor.

Some people just focus on the distortion part of SINAD/THD+N and “forgets” the noise part so it becomes interchangeable with THD in their posts and minds.

A question like “What if the SINAD is noise dominated?” does not necessarily give a good answer.

I think that is a good point. What if the “N” in the “THD+N” is dominant? I think this has been @Trell point.

So my question is, why don’t we just look at THD (Distortion) separately from SNR (Noise)?

Then we would not have to guess how much is the “N” and how much is the “THD” in the THD+N.

Then to follow up, how much THD is audible and what SNR is audible?

 

[PENG]

I think that is a good point. What if the “N” in the “THD+N” is dominant? I think this has been @Trell point.

So my question is, why don’t we just look at THD (Distortion) separately from SNR (Noise)?

Then we would not have to guess how much is the “N” and how much is the “THD” in the THD+N.

Then to follow up, how much THD is audible and what SNR is audible?

Absolutely, I research on this exact topic and could only find the excuse that it is difficult to measure just THD accurately. I think that might have been valid but with today's know how, I think it is just a matter of having the will to do it.

AP has an article on this topic:
More about THD+N and THD - Audio Precision (ap.com)

It looks like for now, as I have said many times, we have to look at the FFT, other than that there isn't much we can do. Anything, the 1 kHz used for such measurements are great, but we really should look at measurements for the range from 1 kHz, or even 500 Hz, to about 8 kHz because THD of most devices tend to increase, sometimes dramatically, if the input signal is at higher frequencies.

THD is an abbreviation for Total Harmonic Distortion. As above, THD part refers to the sum of all the harmonic distortion products in a measurement. Noise is not included in a THD measurement.

THD without the noise was not easily done until the advent of FFT measurement techniques. The APx500 implementation measures only the bins that contain harmonic distortion products, producing a result that is not influenced by DUT noise or spurious interfering signals. In a very low-noise system, the THD level result will be the same as the THD+N level result.

The FFT method that provides THD measurements also brings the capability to selectively measure discrete harmonic distortion products.

In the various THD and Distortion Product ratio measurements in APx, the rms level of the measured distortion is divided by the rms level of the fundamental, unlike the THD+N ratio results discussed above, where the ratio is to the total signal. The difference is negligible for all reasonable distortion levels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Absolutely, I research on this exact topic and could only find the excuse that it is difficult to measure just THD accurately. I think that might have been valid but with today's know how, I think it is just a matter of having the will to do it.

AP has an article on this topic:
More about THD+N and THD - Audio Precision (ap.com)

It looks like for now, as I have said many times, we have to look at the FFT, other than that there isn't much we can do. Anything, the 1 kHz used for such measurements are great, but we really should look at measurements for the range from 1 kHz, or even 500 Hz, to about 8 kHz because THD of most devices tend to increase, sometimes dramatically, if the input signal is at higher frequencies.

I think measuring from 200Hz-10kHz is a good idea since this has been the “Listening Window” for S&V and probably others.

THD is always less than THD+N since the SUM is always than the individual parts.

So if THD+N is 0.009%, then THD by itself will be less than 0.009%.

I think what we need to focus on is the SNR (The NOISE).

We can say that THD < THD+N and then focus on the SNR from 20Hz-20kHz.


Which brings us back to the question of audibility.


How much SNR from 20Hz-20kHz is audible?

Here is a dirt cheap $300 Yamaha AVR.

THD+N is 0.02% at 1kHz. The SNR from 10Hz-24kHz is about 111dBA.

Yamaha RX-V377 AV Receiver Test Bench

0.1% THD 1.0% THD 2 Channels Continuously Driven, 8 ohm loads 70.9 watts 86.0 watts 2 Channels Continuously Driven, 4 ohm loads 85.9 watts 112.3 watts 5 Channels Continuously Driven, 8 ohm loads 41.2 watts 41.8 watts Analog frequency response in Stereo mode: –0.34 dB at 10 Hz –0.11 dB at 20 Hz...

www.soundandvision.com

 

[PENG]

THD+N is 0.02% at 1kHz. The SNR from 10Hz-24kHz is about 111dBA.

Yamaha RX-V377 AV Receiver Test Bench

0.1% THD 1.0% THD 2 Channels Continuously Driven, 8 ohm loads 70.9 watts 86.0 watts 2 Channels Continuously Driven, 4 ohm loads 85.9 watts 112.3 watts 5 Channels Continuously Driven, 8 ohm loads 41.2 watts 41.8 watts Analog frequency response in Stereo mode: –0.34 dB at 10 Hz –0.11 dB at 20 Hz...

www.soundandvision.com

But remember what Dr. Rich said on hometheaterhifi.com that I quoted/posted several times:
AVR - Audio Video Receiver - Build Quality: Part I - HomeTheaterHifi.com

A key takeaway: circuit quality in the direct mode (stereo or 7.1) is almost always invariant to AVR prices in the range of $400 to $2,000. As examples, the $250 Yamaha RX-V367 and Marantz AV8801 ($3000) use the same Renesas LSI chip (R2A15220FP). With the LSI analog chip in these products, the sound of the direct mode is relatively constant, although a more robust power supplies, addition a quality output buffer and enhanced DC blocking capacitor quality can make small differences.

Don't assume the more expensive ones are much better than the much cheaper ones such as the RX-V377.

Also, be careful using S&V measurements, unless specified, they most likely measure SNR at rated output, A weighted. But it is not fair for me to guess. The fact remains, in most cases, they did not specify the output voltage/power, so we don't know enough to interpret the number, though it may be reasonable to compare the numbers between other Yamaha avrs they also measured.

So let's go crazy on S&V's SNR numbers over the years:
Note: not responsible if there are errors

My takeaways:
-The numbers are all over the map regardless of price, not sure if S&V's numbers are trustworthy, but it does seem that Denon has a pretty good track record on SNR, not surprisingly, nothing beats the $15,000 pair so far.
- Boutique brands didn't do better in general
- S&V didn't measure too many Preamp or integrated amp, I guess they knew....

AVRs:
$15,000 Denon A1HDC1/POA-A1HDCI ......114.51 (at 1W, 8 ohms at power amp speaker output)
$2,999 Denon AVR-4810 CI.........................112.63 (at 1 W, 8 ohms)
$1,999 Denon AVR-4310 CI.........................112.28 (at 1 W, 8 ohms)
$6,000 Denon AVR-5805.............................109 (at 1 W, 8 ohms)
$1,999 Marantz SR8002...............................95.25 (at 1 W, 8 Ohms)
Anthem MRX710.................107.73
Denon AVR-X3400...............109.98
Denon AVR-4520.................107.59 (Sorry, HD got this ex flagship that did worse than the dirt cheap 3400)
Marantz SR7011..................107.82
$2,200 Yamaha RX-A3060...106.84
$7,000 McIntosh MX134.....95.65 (This is Mc product so I am really surprised, wish S&V had tested more Mc's)
$3,800 Rotel RAP1580.........99.04
$1,300 NAD T758V3............93.81

Integrated:
$899 Rotel A12.............................99.2
$999 Peartree...............................106.2
$500 Yamaha WXA-50.................94.83

AVP/Cs:
$3,000 Yamaha CX-A5100 ...130.92 (I think you have this one, got the best number so far on S&V)
Anthem AVM60.....................127.91
$3,999 Marantz AV8802A.....130.38 (If they measured the AV8805, I bet they would get a couple dB difference)
$3,599 Marantz AV8801.......124.15
$7,500 Denon A1HDC1.........114.

$3,000 Yamaha CX-A5000 .........121.37
$6,000 Arcam AVR-850...............107.48
$6,000 Parasound Halo C1.........95.65
$3,500 Rotel RSP1570................125.27
£1400 Rotel RSP1572...................85.3

Preamps:
Parasound P6 .................120.48
Parasound Halo P7.........97.3

To really understand more about SNR, I highly recommend the following article:

Audio Measurement Techniques - cont | Audioholics

If you read the whole thing and still have questions, try PM the author @gene , and if no response, do call back here and that may catch his attention, if not I'll try my best to explain but obviously only if I have the answers.

 

[chashint]

I miss the days when review sites published the measured data.
ASR is a data driven website, and I think the community needs the information Amirm is providing.
When Amirm comments on the data it is contextually comparative to similar products that have been tested.
Very few words are used and there is nothing wrong with that.
Amirm's recommended/not recommended recommendation is only based on the electrical performance as compared to similar devices, there are no subjective listening tests, and there is nothing wrong with that either.
I had been shopping for an AVR for a few months and had ordered the VSX-LX505 one day before the measurements were posted on ASR.
At $1500 I guess I expected the measurements to be better than they are, but the only thing that actually bothered me was the nanny circuit.
I took delivery of the AVR January 9.
The equipment connected is RF83, RC62, RS42, LFM1-EX, LG C2, PS5, XSX, Roku, BD player, and a computer (via network).
I have vigorously tried to trigger the nanny circuit and have not been able to do so. I have no concerns about that now.
The HDMI 2.1 features work like they are supposed to on PS5 and Xbox Series X.
My wife and I like the way it sounds.
Sometime soon I will give Dirac a try to see if I think it contributes anything positive to the experience.
Even though the VSX-LX505 measurements are very middle of the road, in 202x, middle of the road for an AVR is still pretty darn good.
I understand why Amirm does not recommend this AVR, that does not mean it is a bad product and there is no reason for anyone to be triggered about it not being "recommended".
I think anyone with "normal" speakers that needs HDMI 2.1 that works well, will be satisfied with this AVR.