Ascend vs AV123 in 300 dollar range

[kazza2ud]

oops

haha ok, sorry. I couldn't figure out how to change the thread title, thanks.

 

[mazersteven]

As a side question, does anyone know if the encore towers actually sound better than their bookshelf-size counterparts? I read somewhere the larger cabinet gives more low end, is that true?

The towers don't sound "Better" then their bookshelf-size counterparts. They just sound different. And yes they have "more low end". That's the difference.

 

[Matt34]

If you can wait a couple months I'll be selling my X-LS bookshelves in satin black along with a X-CS, and a pair of X-SLS floorstanders in MRS.

I think the X-SLS is probably one of the best deals running as far as cheap floorstanders go. I'm going a different route and just won't have the room for them.



OP, look up user WmAx and find his speaker recomendations for the Behringer bookshelves that run around $130/pr.

 

[WmAx]

The Behringer B2030P, at $130/pair, ironically, is superior for perceived sound quality(as correlated with the credible perceptual research studies on large sample groups of trained listeners) as compared to the offering discussed in this thread so far. It's also built better - which I know you might find hard to believe - and I also found it hard to believe. I did a complete measurement set on this device - and it has measured behavior that is previously unknown to this price range. Behringer has some tremendous bargains that I guess are only made possible by owning their own massive Chinese production facility. Behringer is a German company and many years ago they made their products in Germany. Then they shifted to out-sourcing products to be made in China, but suffered huge quality control issues. They are still fending off a reputation for poor quality control after this, but I don't believe it is a big problem anymore. Over the years I have owned(and still own most of the original gear) around 10-12 Behringer products so far and one (an old microphone back from the era when they contracted stuff out to a 3rd party factory) has stopped working. They finally built their own factory(so large, it's referred to as Behringer City) adorned by the living habitat of it's employees surrounding the facility. Most of their products are built/fabricated in this facility now. Most of my Behringer products are from the era of the dedicated Behringer Chinese factory - and none of these units have failed. Now, don't get me wrong: they have some stinker products. But they also have some extraordinary ones, and those are the ones that I purchase and recommend.

-Chris

 

[STRONGBADF1]

The Behringer B2030P, at $130/pair, ironically, is superior for perceived sound quality(as correlated with the credible perceptual research studies on large sample groups of trained listeners) as compared to the offering discussed in this thread so far. It's also built better - which I know you might find hard to believe - and I also found it hard to believe. I did a complete measurement set on this device - and it has measured behavior that is previously unknown to this price range. Behringer has some tremendous bargains that I guess are only made possible by owning their own massive Chinese production facility. Behringer is a German company and many years ago they made their products in Germany. Then they shifted to out-sourcing products to be made in China, but suffered huge quality control issues. They are still fending off a reputation for poor quality control after this, but I don't believe it is a big problem anymore. Over the years I have owned(and still own most of the original gear) around 10-12 Behringer products so far and one (an old microphone back from the era when they contracted stuff out to a 3rd party factory) has stopped working. They finally built their own factory(so large, it's referred to as Behringer City) adorned by the living habitat of it's employees surrounding the facility. Most of their products are built/fabricated in this facility now. Most of my Behringer products are from the era of the dedicated Behringer Chinese factory - and none of these units have failed. Now, don't get me wrong: they have some stinker products. But they also have some extraordinary ones, and those are the ones that I purchase and recommend.

-Chris

Hi Chris,

How well do The Behringer B2030P work in a HT application vs as a studio monitor?

SBF1

 

[WmAx]

Hi Chris,

How well do The Behringer B2030P work in a HT application vs as a studio monitor?

SBF1

They work fine in either capacity. They should be crossed at >80Hz and used with a subwoofer or two, regardless of the use.

They should also have some basic modifications done in order to fix some details over looked during assembly - and these are things common on many mass market speakers that should be fixed for ideal performance. For example: the magnetic can shield on the back of the midbass may rattle - a common problem on many speakers I have found. It can easily be fixed by using some common liquid super glue: squirt a bead of the liquid around the seam of the shield can and motor and it will seep into the crack, harden, and take up the space in that joint preventing the vibration/rattle from being able to occur. Another issue is an air leak that can be fixed with some common rope caulk, or better, some speaker sealing putty(available from Parts Express I believe). You could even go beyond these two things, and replace the internal dampening with a better quality material. Most speakers use insufficient internal acoustic dampening/stuffing and the B2030P is no exception.

-Chris

 

[gkelly]

I too have been looking at av123 x-series speakers. The prices on the site are amazing, and there are glowing reviews all over the place for av123. However, the price moves up towards the average when you add in their shipping charges. They clearly state why this is so on their website, so I won't repeat it here, but just keep in mind that av123 prices need to be looked at with shipping included in order to fully compare prices. (For example, a pair of x-mtm towers is listed as $300 or $400, but Yellow freight shipping is $320 [at least for my zip code]). Don't get me wrong; quality shipping is very important here, just don't ignore the cost.

On that note, anybody know of an av123 retailer? As far as I could find, they are direct only.

 

[kazza2ud]

Yea I'm actually not going to buy anything until probably September, I'm just thinking ahead. So yea Matt definitely send me an email (kazza2ud@gmail.com) if you're thinking of getting rid of those.

I guess since I won't have a sub I'm leaning towards the X-SLS encores. Behringer needs more than one advocat, lol. I'm sure their good but they're barely mentioned online. I did find one user who said they rattled. But I mean if they don't put glue in the cracks there, what else don't they do? They should get included in more side-by-sides. Maybe I'll try em out one day, but now I need good low end so I don't notice the absence of a sub that much.

 

[kazza2ud]

Wow

Wow I had no idea it cost so much to ship them. It would be 130 dollars to ship UPS Ground. Wow. Yea I might go with Ascend now, I don't know, I'll have to think on it. If I got B-stock 170s it would be 100 bucks less.

 

[Matt34]

For $300 here's what I would go with, in fact this may become my future computer desk setup.

Pair of the Behringer B2030P monitors $130+ shipping

Dayton Sub-12 subwoofer $155+ shipping

 

[Matt34]

As far as I could find, they are direct only.

That is correct, internet direct only company, unless you live close to their headquarters in Colorado.

 

[kazza2ud]

Why don't they at least sell their stuff on amazon, that's like my first-line research tool for buying anything online.

 

[Matt34]

Why don't they at least sell their stuff on amazon, that's like my first-line research tool for buying anything online.

I'll wager $100 that there is not one so called reviewer on amazon that does a more thorough testing of equipment than WmAx does. He won't recommend a product he has tested himself or has 3rd party measurements to back up his claims.

If your really serious about sound, which you must be if your on this site, who you going to trust more when it comes to audio, Audioholics or Amazon?

 

[kazza2ud]

yea point taken. I just wonder why they don't try to take advantage of the popularity of amazon. Because unless you're crazy like me, you won't research speakers straight for days and try to understand the different sides of the market.

I think someone on this thread suggested the Behringers with a sub. Any feelings on what's best in an apartment considering bass has to be within reasonable levels, bigger main speakers without a sub or smaller mains with a sub?

 

[jostenmeat]

Apartment most likely means towers are unnecessary, outside of atypical usages such as serious volumes, or pipe organ listening perhaps warranting a dedicated mid-range driver in a three way speaker.

If for any amount of serious HT usage, the LFE is its own discrete channel meaning that mains only means you miss out on a lot. So, you might consider budgeting for transducer(s). They work very well from all accounts. Check out Buttkicker and Earthquake. You can run them together with a sub, and perhaps disable the sub for late night. They are easy to install, and are more than just full-blown-on or off, but will give you varying amounts of shake 'n rumble along with the volumes of movie playback. The neighbors will never notice a thing.

50/50 music/HT? If mostly HT, Id go the way of transducers in your situation. My preliminary opinion anyway.

 

[kazza2ud]

how feasible are transducers, dont they require their own amp. it's probably over my budget. maybe i'll just go with the x-ls encores. i was just thinking the towers would have better bass. you think it's overkill for an apartment?

 

[jostenmeat]

I guess I should have been more clear and articulate, rather than presuming certain understandings.

I guess I was implying that towers as full range AND sub in an apartment are overkill (and that's just HT, don't want that particular setup for music due to phase & amplitude issues). Such a setup is almost always overkill in most any room due to the way room acoustics work it appears. I guess I also must repeat what I said previously, that the LFE (sub) is its own discrete output. So, this differs from music listening where towers will more or less be doing the same things as sats + sub. For movies, this is not the case. Do you understand?

Do you also understand why I asked you how much music vs movies? I think, generally speaking, sats + sub could be the wtg for better bass response (flexibility of placement of sub), and besides, getting that LFE. But then, LFE could bother neighbors, and hence my idea of checking out transducers. OTOH, bookshelves may incur extra costs in stands, perhaps negating the reason to get them to begin with. Or at least part of the reason.

We can't decide for you because we aren't you. It has to please your needs. If you don't share these needs, then there's not a whole that I can personally add. I think anyways.

 

[kazza2ud]

Well I guess the plan was I would get towers and not a sub to compromise the bass in an apartment. Yea I understand about the LFE, I would imagine I'll mostly be using it for HT and games, with some music on the side (so yes I would be missing out on the LFE). I also realize towers save money on stands which is another reason that was the plan. But after realizing the X-SLS are $430 shipped, vs $250 shipped for the X-LS, I'm now beginning to think I'll just get the bookshelves, and depending on my living situation, maybe add a sub later. When I thought it was $100 more, it seemed like a good option, especially with that extra low end, but for $180 more, man, I'll just get some cheapo stands and take my girl out to a couple of restaurants lol.

But yea I'm still throwing it all around in my head. I really appreciate your input it's helping a lot.

 

[jostenmeat]

Welcome. Like with others here, I really think there are a lot of benefits to adding a piece at a time. Depending on how small your room is, and how modest the volumes could be, I might combine savings, forgo subwoofer, and get a transducer. You could set the x-over point lower in such a case... but it could be a stretch depending. Perhaps worth experimenting with. I know I would in your case. It won't be 100% ideal, but the room will look even cleaner without sight of sub, your gf will jump into your lap out of fear, and your neighbors will still like you.

 

[kazza2ud]

Hahaha, well put. I don't know anything about transducers and am a bit tired of researching at the moment, but did read briefly that the buttkickers require their own amp, which is extra on top of the 200 bucks it costs for (I think) just 1 of them, so... do you have any idea how much it would cost for this little experiment, or any suggestions? And.. do these things actually produce sound or just vibrate, and do they work with any chairs or only special ones..?

Since I was thinking of going with the X-LSs now instead of the towers, if I got a transducer I'd still be missing a bunch of low-mid right? But yea I don't fully understand if the things make noise or just vibrate so.. I'll stop typing and let someone clarify.. haha.

And are you sure these things wouldn't be even WORSE than a sub, since it's all shaky-like..?

what about this cheapo one: http://www.amazon.com/Aura-Sound-Pro-Bass-Shaker/dp/B0002ZPTBI/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215907230&sr=8-3