Ascend v Axiom Dilemma!!!!

[craigsub]

I actually meant in the area I live in ... not here on AH. We are known for our low fidelity ...

I know guys who will drop $2500 on a suit, and who have 30 suits, but won't spend $2000 on a 5 channel speaker system. But - we are getting a few more audiophiles here.

 

[mdrew]

Now that's funny! My best bud paid 650K for a jet boat last year. He owns Bose and think's I'm nuts when he comes over and sees my systems.

 

[---k---]

Craig,

I didn't know that you had heard both. I would love to read a bit more indepth review/comparision if you ever get a chance. That is interesting. I hadn't realized that a package with the M50 was so close in price. Good to know. When I was shopping, I was seriously considering demoing the M22. Didn't for whatever reason - probably got scared off by all the Axiom haters of recent. Now I'm regretting that and not considering the M50.

I guess it should also be noted that Axiom has diapoles rears, while Ascend is only direct. So, if that matters.

 

[craigsub]

Craig,

I didn't know that you had heard both. I would love to read a bit more indepth review/comparision if you ever get a chance. That is interesting. I hadn't realized that a package with the M50 was so close in price. Good to know. When I was shopping, I was seriously considering demoing the M22. Didn't for whatever reason - probably got scared off by all the Axiom haters of recent. Now I'm regretting that and not considering the M50.

I guess it should also be noted that Axiom has diapoles rears, while Ascend is only direct. So, if that matters.

They were in different systems, different homes/rooms ... etc... so in depth would be impossible. But they both were really good, especially considering the price. The M50 does seem to be the forgotten child, but they are an excellent speaker.

Both of these systems are so good that, if you only heard one, you would SWEAR the other could not possibly be as good.

 

[---k---]

You're telling me that the owners of both speakers wouldn't be willing to trade you for a week so that you could do a review for us?

 

[speakerman39]

cyberbri,

You missed one:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=647862

and hey, thats me!

I can't speak for the Axioms, but I can for the 340SE and Paradigms Studio 40s hooked up to a Pio 1015. I found the 340SE to be a much more accurate speaker than the Studio 40. I was frankly shocked at how much I didn't like the 40 when I got it home next to the 340SE. The 340SE had much tighter and stronger bass, and had better clarity.

I'm really enjoying my Ascend 340SEs. They are a great balanced speaker. They do very little wrong. Yeah, there are better speakers, but they you got to step up in price to get there.

The shipping on both speakers will be pretty reasonable, entertain yourself for a month by getting both pairs and swapping back and forth every night.

Thanks for the info BUT I do not care for the Studio 40 at all. The Studio 20 v.3's does everything better IMHO. Sure the 40 can play a little deeper but that is about the only difference I could detect after comparing them extensiviely. Maybe , the Ascends are the way to go then.

 

[speakerman39]

Nice. I have probably read that before, but I'll have to read it again. I am going to be getting a set of 3x 340SEs and a pair of 170SEs, along with a VTF-3 Mk2 in Blond Maple in a month or so, which makes me want to read people's comparisons even more!

This is exactly the same set-up I been thinking of with the exception of the sub. I plan on getting a Mirage S12 instead due to the price. Just have to make up my mind between the Ascends and the Axioms.

 

[speakerman39]

I recently purchased the M22's VP100 and QS8's, all powered with the PIO 1015. I can tell you that they are great speakers, able to play very loud. I am able to hear things that I cannot pickup on my PSB T45's (which I love). You should get a sub, but even without they are great for music.

I was debating the purchase with all of the comments regarding them being bright, and have formed my own opinion. Intitialy, I plugged them in and focused entirely on the picking out what bright sounds like. Soon I realized that (with A/B switching) I thought my PSB's were sounding bright (which they are not) because I was searching for it, which lead me to understand that I was not being objective. I forgot about the comments I had read and just started listening to music, and that was that for the bright aspect.

Anyways, everyone who has heard the Axiom's has made positive comments and I am very happy with the decision. It sounds like you are in a similar boat to where I was a few months ago and I thought I would offer some comments....

Just asking why not get the VP150? When I called Axiom the guy I spoke with said the VP150 was much much better than the VP100. From what I read many Axiom owners agree. Oh, how do you like the QS8's?

 

[speakerman39]

The Ascend 340's will need the matching stands ... so the system is a bit over $1300 plus subwoofer.

The best choice, IMO, from Axiom's lineup would be the M-50's, VP-100 center, and QS-4 surrounds, which is also a bit over $1300. By the time you add stands to the M22's, you are close to the same $$$$.

I have also auditioned all these speakers pretty extensively.

Both of these are delivered prices - and are really exceptional values.

Ascend's advantages are in the center channel.

Axiom's are in the mains and surrounds. Actually, with a subwoofer, the mains are about a draw.

Axiom gives you finish choices, while Ascend's finish is more durable.

Both systems are outstanding values. Have fun with the process !

Thanks here Craig. Respect your opinion very much as I know you have done a lot of work with respect to powered subwoofers. However, I do NOT care for floor standing speakers at all---I much prefer a stand mounted speaker with a good sub any day So how does the Studio 20 v.3 compare to the 170 SE's???? I mean the Studio 20 v.3's and now v.4's are $850 a set. I dont care for the rest of the Studio line myself. Can you be a little more descriptive with the comparisons between the Ascend 340-mSE's and the Axiom m22's?

 

[speakerman39]

Now that's funny! My best bud paid 650K for a jet boat last year. He owns Bose and think's I'm nuts when he comes over and sees my systems.

LOL now thats funny.....most of my family and friends look at me the same way. Problem is they juss dont understand for crying out loud!!!! Ha!Ha! Being an audiophile is a sickness that when it takes over you stay broke the rest of your life.......LOL!!!!

 

[craigsub]

Thanks here Craig. Respect your opinion very much as I know you have done a lot of work with respect to powered subwoofers. However, I do NOT care for floor standing speakers at all---I much prefer a stand mounted speaker with a good sub any day So how does the Studio 20 v.3 compare to the 170 SE's???? I mean the Studio 20 v.3's and now v.4's are $850 a set. I dont care for the rest of the Studio line myself. Can you be a little more descriptive with the comparisons between the Ascend 340-mSE's and the Axiom m22's?

If one wants to stick with strictly bookshelf systems, you really need to be careful with subwoofer choices.

I would not suggest the PB-10 with the Axioms M-22's, as they just are not a good match. The 22's need a subwoofer with a 100 Hz linear response, IMO.

Both the M22's and 170 SE's compare well with the Paradigm Studio 20 V.3's ... The 170's are a more natural competitor, where the M22's, crossed at 100 Hz, are capable of higher SPL's than either the Ascends or the Paradigms.

The 170's/340's work great with the Hsu VTF-3 Mark II, and, again IMO, pairing speaker of that quality with the SVS does the speakers is disservice.

I would rather have 170's, and put the $$$$ into the VTF-3 Mark II.

SO ... for two systems from each company ?

Ascend ...

4 x 170 + 1 x 340 SE + a VTF-3 Mark II. This is $1698 delivered.

Axiom ...

2 x M22 + 2 x QS8 + 1 x VP-150 + 1 x EP-350. This is $1957 delivered.

The EP-350 can take the 100 Hz crossover. The Ascend/Hsu combo is fantastic, as is the Axiom rig. The Axiom will play louder, and has the Quadrapole surround - but it is $260 more money, too.

However, even though this was not asked - if I was to pick my favorite system from Axiom for the $$$ ... and was sticking to bookshelf speakers, it would be ...

4 x M3's + 1 x VP-150 + 1 EP-500.

$1900 delivered ... and true 20 to 20,000 Hz performance, and a totally seemless sound.

AND... for the Ascend package, I would upgrade the VTF-3 Mark II to the VTF-3 HO ... it is a VERY close match to the EP-500 ... again, for about $1900 delivered for 4 x 170's, 1 x 340 SE, and the VTF-3 HO.

Those two packages will make a guy happy for YEARS.

Is everyone sufficiently confused now ?

 

[silversurfer]

Wow. That is like hide the ball in the shell game!

One different opinion I have though is that I thought the older 170's that I heard with M22's were that the 170's seemed more comfortable at higher volumes. This was with no sub involvement.

 

[craigsub]

Wow. That is like hide the ball in the shell game!

One different opinion I have though is that I thought the older 170's that I heard with M22's were that the 170's seemed more comfortable at higher volumes. This was with no sub involvement.

Yep ... You have to cross the M22's or they get congested too easily. Go look at the M80's, and I bet you figure out why ...

The M3's do well full range, the 22's don't.

 

[wilkenboy]

Man, reading through the now 4 pages of this thread you have some good opinions on both camps and some good advice. When you decide what do to, make sure to post impressions, pics, and the "why" behind your decision here!

Happy hunting!

~Josh

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

The PB10 is flat out to 200hz.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10isd.cfm#curve

Frequency response verified here...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

Tom V.
SVS

 

[silversurfer]

Craig, I think you are being watched.

 

[craigsub]

Craig, I think you are being watched.

Gee, Ya think ?

We "golden ears" that base a large portion of our reviews based on blind listening just bring out the best in some people ...

There is a tremendous review of the EP-500 right here on Audioholics, and several other reviews can be picked up on Axiom's site. So the OP can get a pretty wide array of review material from which to pick.

 

[silversurfer]

No worries. "They" called me "Bob" and "johnlarson" when I had questions about the 12.3 driver.

 

[craigsub]

I did not see that accusation. One of the beta testers (who happens to be a really nice guy, so this is not aimed at him) for the 12.3 mentioned how it sounded better than the 12.2.

Interestingly enough, his opinion on improved sound quality of the 12.3 over the 12.2 was greeted with great appreciation by the "powers" at SVS. There ARE some occasions in which listening tests are ok in their eyes, and other occasions in which they are not.

Gotta love consistency ...

 

[speakerman39]

If one wants to stick with strictly bookshelf systems, you really need to be careful with subwoofer choices.

I would not suggest the PB-10 with the Axioms M-22's, as they just are not a good match. The 22's need a subwoofer with a 100 Hz linear response, IMO.

Both the M22's and 170 SE's compare well with the Paradigm Studio 20 V.3's ... The 170's are a more natural competitor, where the M22's, crossed at 100 Hz, are capable of higher SPL's than either the Ascends or the Paradigms.

The 170's/340's work great with the Hsu VTF-3 Mark II, and, again IMO, pairing speaker of that quality with the SVS does the speakers is disservice.

I would rather have 170's, and put the $$$$ into the VTF-3 Mark II.

SO ... for two systems from each company ?

Ascend ...

4 x 170 + 1 x 340 SE + a VTF-3 Mark II. This is $1698 delivered.

Axiom ...

2 x M22 + 2 x QS8 + 1 x VP-150 + 1 x EP-350. This is $1957 delivered.

The EP-350 can take the 100 Hz crossover. The Ascend/Hsu combo is fantastic, as is the Axiom rig. The Axiom will play louder, and has the Quadrapole surround - but it is $260 more money, too.

However, even though this was not asked - if I was to pick my favorite system from Axiom for the $$$ ... and was sticking to bookshelf speakers, it would be ...

4 x M3's + 1 x VP-150 + 1 EP-500.

$1900 delivered ... and true 20 to 20,000 Hz performance, and a totally seemless sound.

AND... for the Ascend package, I would upgrade the VTF-3 Mark II to the VTF-3 HO ... it is a VERY close match to the EP-500 ... again, for about $1900 delivered for 4 x 170's, 1 x 340 SE, and the VTF-3 HO.

Those two packages will make a guy happy for YEARS.

Is everyone sufficiently confused now ?

Craig I have a Q: Isn't a 100 Hz X-over point a bit high for a 12" driver? I mean from my experience a 12" sub X-overed at that high a frequency usually results in some boominess whereas I prefer a much tighter well articulated punchy sound. A 100 Hz X-over point would fit better with a good quality 10" driver or an awesome 8" driver--wouldn't you agree?? My preference is on 2-channel music listening so as a result articulation is paramount to me. Thus, the attack must be controlled and extended while handling transients well. What do you feel is my best choice given this criteria?