Ascend v Axiom Dilemma!!!!

[speakerman39]

The PB10 is flat out to 200hz.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10isd.cfm#curve

Frequency response verified here...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

Tom V.
SVS

No offense to anyone here BUT what does this mean? I mean flat out to 200 Hz???? Please explain to me so I can understand. No pun intended.

 

[silversurfer]

Interestingly enough, his opinion on improved sound quality of the 12.3 over the 12.2 was greeted with great appreciation by the "powers" at SVS. There ARE some occasions in which listening tests are ok in their eyes, and other occasions in which they are not.

Gotta love consistency ...

Yeah....where are the "numbers" or "graphs"?

 

[craigsub]

Craig I have a Q: Isn't a 100 Hz X-over point a bit high for a 12" driver? I mean from my experience a 12" sub X-overed at that high a frequency usually results in some boominess whereas I prefer a much tighter well articulated punchy sound. A 100 Hz X-over point would fit better with a good quality 10" driver or an awesome 8" driver--wouldn't you agree?? My preference is on 2-channel music listening so as a result articulation is paramount to me. Thus, the attack must be controlled and extended while handling transients well. What do you feel is my best choice given this criteria?

Well .... a 100 Hz signal's wavelength is still about 5.6 feet long. The 12 inch driver will be fine there. It is the quality of the 12 inch driver that matters.

The EP-500 handles bass to 100 Hz quite easily. Some subwoofers don't do quite as well.

 

[Nick250]

Since we are talking curves here, I have a HSU VTF2 that I bought new about six years. One of the early real ugly ones with the black bumpy surface. Does anyone know the frequency range where the curve is flat on that sub? Just curious.

Actually a second question. Are the newer ones enough better for me to consider replacing it? Has the technology improved over the past six years? I prefer a tight musical sound over slam. Figure around $600.

Nick

 

[craigsub]

Since we are talking curves here, I have a HSU VTF2 that I bought new about six years. One of the early real ugly ones with the black bumpy surface. Does anyone know the range where the curve is flat on that sub? Just curious.

Actually a second question. Are the newer ones enough better to consider replacing it?

Nick

The Audio Critic reviewed the original VTF-2 seven years ago ... here is what they measured at the time :

My nearfield measurements in the one-port-open mode indicated classic B4 tuning, both the woofer null and the maximum vent output occurring at 24 Hz (that’s close enough to the 25 Hz specified by the manufacturer). The summed nearfield response of the woofer and vent was within ±1.5 dB from 100 Hz all the way down to 22 Hz. In the two-ports-open mode, the woofer null and maximum output from the vents occurred at 34 Hz, and the summed nearfield response of the three apertures (difficult to obtain and therefore approximate) was ±1.5 dB from 100 Hz to 40 Hz. In other words, the tuning of the box and the resulting output were pretty nearly optimal and on spec. Beautiful design.

Pretty impressive.

 

[speakerman39]

Well .... a 100 Hz signal's wavelength is still about 5.6 feet long. The 12 inch driver will be fine there. It is the quality of the 12 inch driver that matters.

The EP-500 handles bass to 100 Hz quite easily. Some subwoofers don't do quite as well.

Ok Craig which sub would you believe to be better over all for music applications and excellent ht extension. Keep in mind I prefer a tight punchy well articulated sound. Please select from the list:
SVS PB10-ISD
SVS PB12-ISD
Mirage S12
Hsu VTF3-MKII
Hsu STF3
Hsu VTF2-MKII
Hsu STF2

Please keep in mind that I am looking for a sub that is not too expensive such as the Mirage S12. Hsu has several in my price range and SVS has a couple. So which do you think would be better for me by offering the most bang for the buck so to speak. The sub will be used mainly for ht applications on on occasion when listening to 2-channel music. My room size is what most would call medium. Dont have exact measurements but it is like 14X22x8.

 

[craigsub]

From that list, I would buy the VTF-3 Mark II myself. It can do everything so well. It hits 16 Hz nicely, is really articulate, and is reasonably sized.

However, it is also, for example, $270 more than the PB10-ISD. To me, it is worth the difference, to others, it won't be.

The size of the VTF/STF 2 may offset the slight loss of deep bass to some people, others won't mind the bigger size of the PB-10, and want the extra 1/4th Octave.

The PB12 is now the NSD, not the ISD ... until I can blind test it against, say, the VTF-3 Mark II, giving anything firm about it is impossible.

Giving absolutes is not an easy task ...

 

[Tomorrow]

Giving absolutes is not an easy task ...

Absolutely correct!

 

[Nick250]

The Audio Critic reviewed the original VTF-2 seven years ago ... here is what they measured at the time :



Pretty impressive.

Thanks for the info Craig. My six year old VTF2 will retain it's place in my system.

 

[cyberbri]

No offense to anyone here BUT what does this mean? I mean flat out to 200 Hz???? Please explain to me so I can understand. No pun intended.

If the frequency response is "flat," it means that all of the frequencies will be the same loudness with relation to one another (within that range). If the response isn't flat, the speaker will reproduce certain sounds louder/quieter than others.

Of course you have to take into consideration room acoustics and speaker/sub placement, as that will determine how flat that response remains. Experimenting with placement, you may be able to find a spot in the room (sub placement and couch/LP placement) with relatively flat response. You can always use something like a $100 "BFD" to eq the sub's response so that at the LP it remains flat (flatten out the bumps in response caused by the room).

But "flat to 200Hz" means that the subwoofer is good not only to 80-100Hz, where most speakers would be crossed over, but the subwoofer is theoretically "good" to 200Hz. If you use a crossover of 100Hz, the sound sent to the speakers will taper off 1 octave below that (50Hz) and the sub will taper off above that 1 octave (200Hz). So theoretically, a sub that is flat to 200Hz would be well-suited to matching with small satellite speakers that would have to be crossed over in the 150-200Hz range.


HTH

 

[speakerman39]

If the frequency response is "flat," it means that all of the frequencies will be the same loudness with relation to one another (within that range). If the response isn't flat, the speaker will reproduce certain sounds louder/quieter than others.

Of course you have to take into consideration room acoustics and speaker/sub placement, as that will determine how flat that response remains. Experimenting with placement, you may be able to find a spot in the room (sub placement and couch/LP placement) with relatively flat response. You can always use something like a $100 "BFD" to eq the sub's response so that at the LP it remains flat (flatten out the bumps in response caused by the room).

But "flat to 200Hz" means that the subwoofer is good not only to 80-100Hz, where most speakers would be crossed over, but the subwoofer is theoretically "good" to 200Hz. If you use a crossover of 100Hz, the sound sent to the speakers will taper off 1 octave below that (50Hz) and the sub will taper off above that 1 octave (200Hz). So theoretically, a sub that is flat to 200Hz would be well-suited to matching with small satellite speakers that would have to be crossed over in the 150-200Hz range.


HTH

Darn just when I thought I knew everything there is to know about audio.......just kidding!!!! No really thank you for explaining this to me. Sounds like the SVSPB10-ISD is still a big consideration for me either way I go. I plan on trying to get a Mirage S12 if they ever become available at Vanns.com. The deal is just to good to pass up. Otherwise I wend end up with an SVS or a Hsu. Thanks once again.