Arendal 1723 2V Subwoofer Review

Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I don't quite agree. Once you have stuffed the backside of the driver into an airtight compartment, it is truly a sealed subwoofer. And making airtight seals around ports is making the enclosure into a sealed subwoofer. You no longer have any of the advantages or disadvantages of the ports. The onus is entirely upon the driver to produce sound. The only problem with sealing the ports of a subwoofer that was intended to be run in ported operation is that the enclosure and electronics were geared for ported operation, so the configuration wouldn't be optimal for that alignment with that driver. But acoustically speaking, it is a true sealed subwoofer.
It becomes a true sealed subwoofer, but the driver which is designed for a ported box will not perform as well when performing in the sealed cabinet. The most obvious result will be an overall reduced efficiency, a raised cone resonance and a higher frequency roll off knee, but at a 12 dB instead of 24 dB per octave..
 
K

kernelpanic

Audiophyte
True, but this is why you have the app to tune to sealed vs. ported. SVS does it. Is this not part of Arendal's app?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
I don't quite agree. Once you have stuffed the backside of the driver into an airtight compartment, it is truly a sealed subwoofer. And making airtight seals around ports is making the enclosure into a sealed subwoofer. You no longer have any of the advantages or disadvantages of the ports. The onus is entirely upon the driver to produce sound. The only problem with sealing the ports of a subwoofer that was intended to be run in ported operation is that the enclosure and electronics were geared for ported operation, so the configuration wouldn't be optimal for that alignment with that driver. But acoustically speaking, it is a true sealed subwoofer.
Verdi just said it best, and probably much more succinctly than I could. The short version of my rough understanding boils down to the driver not being loaded properly. I get with some of the woofers and DSP Amps, you can create a hybrid tuning, so to speak, but the sealing of ports and altering DSP is different than a properly tuned closed box.
I'm working on my plans to build out my SI SQL-15 drivers in both a 4cu.ft Sealed and 10cu.ft Ported box to test against each other. How would plugging the ports on that Cabinet give a response comparable to the true Sealed version? Even with DSP to prop it up?

I'm not endeavoring to say that Sealed is inherently better than Ported. I<3 my X13s in Extended mode. If I had to replace them without DIY as an option, I would probaly go hook line and sinker after the newer Monoliths.

But I have my plans. *Taps fingers together like Montgomery Burns; says "excellent."

:)
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
True, but this is why you have the app to tune to sealed vs. ported. SVS does it. Is this not part of Arendal's app?
But the app, in its best settings, cannot equal the sub's performance in the sealed cabinet, to that of the designed ported cabinet in which it was enclosed.
 
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kernelpanic

Audiophyte
No, group delay is an intrinsic component of the frequency response and phase, so if you take a frequency response sweep, you also get group delay with it. It doesn't have to be measured separately.
Thanks, the group delay results are very impressive. Is there a frequency where group delay is no longer audible? I ask because if I compare to all the SVS subs you've tested, Arendal does much better below 30hz. So Arendal seems like the better sub for transient response?

1631712353339.png


Arendal:
1631712451742.png
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Thanks, the group delay results are very impressive. Is there a frequency where group delay is no longer audible? I ask because if I compare to all the SVS subs you've tested, Arendal does much better below 30hz. So Arendal seems like the better sub for transient response?
This hasn't really been studied systematically, so no one really knows. It is widely believed that group delay is going to be much more difficult to identify in deep bass. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it very much below 40Hz or so, unless things get really out of hand. The higher group delay of the SVS subs below 30Hz probably isn't a big deal, but it would be interesting to do some kind of blind test to see if there is an audible difference.
 
O

Oggaaaa

Enthusiast
Great review! How would you stack it against the PC/PB4000? I wonder if i should regret buying the PC-4000 (although i got it for 500 dollars less then the Arendal)
 
E

EBN

Audioholic
Great review @shadyJ ! Very impressive! I've had my eye on Arendal. Any chance you have group delay measurements from the sub in sealed mode? How about burst tests in sealed mode?
Look few posts higher where i posted 2S link. In that link if you scroll down you will find frequency response graph ground plane and CEA 2010 burst measurements 1m, 2m peak and RMS. :) Sadly no group delay, but you can always ask direct from the company via email. Great service what i have witnessed for about 6 year time when i first talked with them.

The persons behind Arendal sold at least SVS and Ken Kreisel products for years and they know them inside out. Their aim was to offer better sounding products with high build quality and performance. They have put out quite bold claim for the 2S:

Literally startling dynamics. We believe this the world’s best subwoofer for music. At any price level.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Great review! How would you stack it against the PC/PB4000? I wonder if i should regret buying the PC-4000 (although i got it for 500 dollars less then the Arendal)
From a pure output perspective, the PC/PB-4000 will have a bit more deep bass, especially between 20 - 25Hz, but the 1723 2V will have a bit more mid-bass. So the SVS 4000 subs will have a bit more low-end grunt but the Arendal will have a bit more chest punch. Both are good in all respects though, so you can't go wrong with either.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Rythmik is down market with respect to Arendal. If you want the most raw SPL for your dollar, sure, it is a viable alternative. But you don't get the build quality, feature set, aesthetics, or protection that you do with Arendal. And even then, there are better alternatives to Rythmik if all you care about is SPL. Yes, a Nissan Sentra will get you to the supermarket just as well as a BMW M5, but the people shopping for these cars are looking at different attributes rather than just mere transportation.
You make the Arendal to be some value leader and it gets trounced by the less costly Rythmik which are known in the industry for providing clean articulate base. Actually there are lots of subs that trounce this one for less. Id rather go down market for the same quality if not better bass that the Arendal delivers. It appears your going for snob appeal rather then real performance.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
What I'm seeing in the US market (at least) is that with better design capabilities, we are seeing Subs that perform better than the older models that benefited from some assistance. Is the Arendal the end-all-be-all? Not necessarily.Yet it seems, on the specs alone, to be delivering. So do the Monoliths that just came out.
It really seems we are due a paradigm shift in modern Sub-woofage. We've got Gene and Poes gushing over the RTJ Subs while standing next to the RBHs... (Buyers remorse? :p ) And, we've got newer product hitting the market that is making older stuff look dated.
When was the last update in Servo Technology for assisting Woofer excursion and distortion?
Well... it's looking like it's happening in the form of DSP control and actually well designed drivers that do not need mechanical correction.
This isn't to suggest that RythmiK is outdated, but the argument has been voiced (for the past couple years that I've been here) that servo control is no longer necessary to have a great product. If it was, I might own Rythmiks instead of Claridy-designed Outlaws. Hell, I really was very close to buying from Brian, and it was the Black Friday Sale that pushed me here, and I do not regret it.

Anyway, Snob Appeal and Value Leader are not really in the same class and material here, but if I were to buy a product from the EU, I woud prefer they include all Shipping and Customs in the price, which Arendal does (much like Buchardt), unless you want to return it. I think, if you were to take the cost of that proposition out of the equation (much like taking the cost of the SVS Customer Bill Of Rights out) their product(s (including Buchardt here for effect)) would compete quite reasonably compared to North American product.

*drops two pennies. ;)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You make the Arendal to be some value leader and it gets trounced by the less costly Rythmik which are known in the industry for providing clean articulate base. Actually there are lots of subs that trounce this one for less. Id rather go down market for the same quality if not better bass that the Arendal delivers. It appears your going for snob appeal rather then real performance.
If all you want is audio performance and nothing else, there are subs that trounce Rythmik. If you also value other attributes as well, then you have to balance them against raw performance. The crux of that balance is a totally subjective matter. I can't weigh that for anyone else, but I can appreciate differing perspectives, and I make recommendations according to whom the review product is a good fit for. I have a review that will be published soon of a sub that retails for the same price as the 1723 2V that doesn't at all compete in terms of raw performance, however, the fit and finish are definitely a step above. I also have a review coming soon of a subwoofer that substantially outperforms the 1723 2V for less money, but it lacks much of the grace in terms of feature set, aesthetics, and sophistication. I can appreciate both of the above approaches just as I appreciate the balance that Arendal strikes. You really can't know how good of a balance that Arendal strikes until you get your hands on one and dig into it, it is very likely more impressive in person than I can convey in the written word.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
If all you want is audio performance and nothing else, there are subs that trounce Rythmik. If you also value other attributes as well, then you have to balance them against raw performance. The crux of that balance is a totally subjective matter. I can't weigh that for anyone else, but I can appreciate differing perspectives, and I make recommendations according to whom the review product is a good fit for. I have a review that will be published soon of a sub that retails for the same price as the 1723 2V that doesn't at all compete in terms of raw performance, however, the fit and finish are definitely a step above. I also have a review coming soon of a subwoofer that substantially outperforms the 1723 2V for less money, but it lacks much of the grace in terms of feature set, aesthetics, and sophistication. I can appreciate both of the above approaches just as I appreciate the balance that Arendal strikes. You really can't know how good of a balance that Arendal strikes until you get your hands on one and dig into it, it is very likely more impressive in person than I can convey in the written word.
Shaaaady I know which review you have coming of a less expensive sub that outperforms the Arendal. I've been waiting for that review Shady waiting. ;)
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
If all you want is audio performance and nothing else, there are subs that trounce Rythmik. If you also value other attributes as well, then you have to balance them against raw performance. The crux of that balance is a totally subjective matter. I can't weigh that for anyone else, but I can appreciate differing perspectives, and I make recommendations according to whom the review product is a good fit for. I have a review that will be published soon of a sub that retails for the same price as the 1723 2V that doesn't at all compete in terms of raw performance, however, the fit and finish are definitely a step above. I also have a review coming soon of a subwoofer that substantially outperforms the 1723 2V for less money, but it lacks much of the grace in terms of feature set, aesthetics, and sophistication. I can appreciate both of the above approaches just as I appreciate the balance that Arendal strikes. You really can't know how good of a balance that Arendal strikes until you get your hands on one and dig into it, it is very likely more impressive in person than I can convey in the written word.
Like stalker level waiting :D
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
How about this?

64d2f12157e4e8ddc62ad3c2ae1b4dad--funny-easter-pictures-scary-pictures.jpg


The Lil guy is Shady that's me in the background hounding him for this review :D
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
If all you want is audio performance and nothing else, there are subs that trounce Rythmik. If you also value other attributes as well, then you have to balance them against raw performance. The crux of that balance is a totally subjective matter. I can't weigh that for anyone else, but I can appreciate differing perspectives, and I make recommendations according to whom the review product is a good fit for. I have a review that will be published soon of a sub that retails for the same price as the 1723 2V that doesn't at all compete in terms of raw performance, however, the fit and finish are definitely a step above. I also have a review coming soon of a subwoofer that substantially outperforms the 1723 2V for less money, but it lacks much of the grace in terms of feature set, aesthetics, and sophistication. I can appreciate both of the above approaches just as I appreciate the balance that Arendal strikes. You really can't know how good of a balance that Arendal strikes until you get your hands on one and dig into it, it is very likely more impressive in person than I can convey in the written word.
I guess there are some people into nicely made furniture such as REL whose performance is lacking (Im not including the 1723 in this as it has relatively good performance) rather than good deep hard hitting articulate bass. Your car analogy is still off because if people bought an M5 for its perfomance, then the Rthymik mentioned in the comparison would be the M5 and the 1723 is more like a 7 series.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
What I'm seeing in the US market (at least) is that with better design capabilities, we are seeing Subs that perform better than the older models that benefited from some assistance. Is the Arendal the end-all-be-all? Not necessarily.Yet it seems, on the specs alone, to be delivering. So do the Monoliths that just came out.
It really seems we are due a paradigm shift in modern Sub-woofage. We've got Gene and Poes gushing over the RTJ Subs while standing next to the RBHs... (Buyers remorse? :p ) And, we've got newer product hitting the market that is making older stuff look dated.
When was the last update in Servo Technology for assisting Woofer excursion and distortion?
Well... it's looking like it's happening in the form of DSP control and actually well designed drivers that do not need mechanical correction.
This isn't to suggest that RythmiK is outdated, but the argument has been voiced (for the past couple years that I've been here) that servo control is no longer necessary to have a great product. If it was, I might own Rythmiks instead of Claridy-designed Outlaws. Hell, I really was very close to buying from Brian, and it was the Black Friday Sale that pushed me here, and I do not regret it.

Anyway, Snob Appeal and Value Leader are not really in the same class and material here, but if I were to buy a product from the EU, I woud prefer they include all Shipping and Customs in the price, which Arendal does (much like Buchardt), unless you want to return it. I think, if you were to take the cost of that proposition out of the equation (much like taking the cost of the SVS Customer Bill Of Rights out) their product(s (including Buchardt here for effect)) would compete quite reasonably compared to North American product.

*drops two pennies. ;)
I like Rythmik because they perform and measure really well. I dont care how they do it. I just care about the end result. One can argue that sub DSP is rather superfulous when integrating multiple subs into a room when using products like miniDSP. The mini gives you far better control then the sub's DSP. I left the DSP disabled on the Rythmik LV12F when I integrated it to my older LV12R and I still get the benefits of their servo.
 

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