Are these Old Speakers Dying, if So Can you Recommend a modern Equivalent.

S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Yes so far but I have only auditioned the Sony Cores, which company repaired your JBL's?


But in a perfect world I would like to accomplish both, salvage these and eventually find the modern brand that fits the sound signature I like.
As I recall I used The Speaker Exchange to refoam my speakers. It's something you can do yourself; but, I'm a cults with glue.
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
As I recall I used The Speaker Exchange to refoam my speakers. It's something you can do yourself; but, I'm a cults with glue.
I found someone local who will make sure the coils are centered and put the new surrounds on for $50 per woofer. I don't think this makes a difference but the new foam surrounds just arrived from Simply Speakers and they are different than the originals, it is a rubber type of surround, the original being 100 percent foam, they were advertised as being for the SS-U501 but I get the impression that any 12" woofer gets these rubber style surrounds, will it matter in the long run?

I'm sure the answer probably is no but I just want to be sure.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
I found someone local who will make sure the coils are centered and put the new surrounds on for $50 per woofer. I don't think this makes a difference but the new foam surrounds just arrived from Simply Speakers and they are different than the originals, it is a rubber type of surround, the original being 100 percent foam, they were advertised as being for the SS-U501 but I get the impression that any 12" woofer gets these rubber style surrounds, will it matter in the long run?

I'm sure the answer probably is no but I just want to be sure.
Surround replacements must be same as the originals. The situation is that identical foam surrounds are no longer available. However, I strongly doubt that the rubber surrounds will provide the exact same performance, but it may be worth a try and who knows, it might perform in a satisfactory manner for you.
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Surround replacements must be same as the originals. The situation is that identical foam surrounds are no longer available. However, I strongly doubt that the rubber surrounds will provide the exact same performance, but it may be worth a try and who knows, it might perform in a satisfactory manner for you.
Thanks for responding, if you don't mind looking at these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SS-U431AV-SS-U491AV-SS-U501-Speaker-Foam-Surround-Repair-Kit-2A12B-130/292188671300?hash=item4407cd4d44:g:QkUAAOSw42dZJIvC

The second picture shows a complete foam surround, any chance they are 100 percent foam or are you certain nobody sells them anymore?
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
You can not exchange speaker drivers. The T/s parameters of drivers are unique. The driver you site is a particularly cheap and nasty one. It has a total Qts of 1.54! and will be a really horrid boomer.

If you want to keep your speakers, I would send those drivers away to be professionally refoamed. It is my opinion that it is either that or new speakers. The choice is yours.
I'm going to refoam them, Simply Speakers sent me surrounds that are rubber, sent an Ebay message and the owner states they should have been foam but another poster here advised me that 100 percent foam surrounds might not be available anywhere, do you have any insight into this?

Springfield Speakers, I believe that is the name, on their Ebay page, one picture looks like rubber surrounds, the second picture is of a foam surround.

If I can't match them exactly to the original material, I still will go for the refoaming as I can't discern any audio dropoff with duct tape so I doubt I will notice anything with the surrounds that are rubber.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
IF... there's a rubber surround that can offer similar performance I'd go that route. IF you can find one with close to the same properties it'll last a lot longer.

2 big "IFs" there tho. I don't know the likelihood you could find rubber surrounds with the same or similar properties.
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
IF... there's a rubber surround that can offer similar performance I'd go that route. IF you can find one with close to the same properties it'll last a lot longer.

2 big "IFs" there tho. I don't know the likelihood you could find rubber surrounds with the same or similar properties.
Update: Simply Speakers Ebay owner responded to my message, said he has a pair of spongy foam like surrounds that fit the parameters (and match the picture of Springfields) of my woofer and he will direct ship them to me (free of charge), he added that there was no need to mail the rubber surrounds back. I like to highlight when companies are honest and take extra steps for the customer, when I am ready to refoam the two passive radiators on these speakers, I will be sure to buy again from Simply Speakers.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Update: Simply Speakers Ebay owner responded to my message, said he has a pair of spongy foam like surrounds that fit the parameters (and match the picture of Springfields) of my woofer and he will direct ship them to me (free of charge), he added that there was no need to mail the rubber surrounds back. I like to highlight when companies are honest and take extra steps for the customer, when I am ready to refoam the two passive radiators on these speakers, I will be sure to buy again from Simply Speakers.
I've purchased from Simply Speakers and the experience was good. I'm glad you are going to get the proper surrounds without hassle. A few years ago as I earlier mentioned The Speaker Exchange refoamed a pair of JBL drivers for me. The job was OK but the surround covers were not set to orientate speakers identically within their enclosures; therefore, I had to order an extra set of covers from them, which they charged me for. I expected that the covers would be sent at no charge; but, more concerning was it appeared they were not concerned about details as I was. This makes me think for my next project, replacing woofer cone on my JBL subwoofer, I will get Simply Speakers to do it.
48837700336_3fc0e3a06c_c.jpg
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Surround replacements must be same as the originals. The situation is that identical foam surrounds are no longer available. However, I strongly doubt that the rubber surrounds will provide the exact same performance, but it may be worth a try and who knows, it might perform in a satisfactory manner for you.

If anyone can help, I have the left black wire out that is attached to the woofer, the right red wire is giving me trouble, tried small flat head screw drivers, this thing won't budge, any special tools or tricks you use to disconnect the wire from the speaker, thanks.

Update: Problem solved, to anyone who needs to do this, try to manipulate the bendable terminal part up and down as you pull the speaker wire attached to the clasp out.

I'm hoping the speaker coil is not blown, there is a slight amount of voice coil rub when I press down on certain angles of the cone, I will have the speaker repair person test it, thanks.
 
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A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Just because it fits does not mean it will sound the same. Like I said earlier there is a lot more that goes into it than just will it fit.
Out of curiosity if I found a similar Sony style from the era of mine, e.g. a Sony SS-U521 AV with the same 12" woofer, 270 watts max rating, 8ohms, could I get away with buying one of those woofers off Ebay and replacing mine if I needed to?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Out of curiosity if I found a similar Sony style from the era of mine, e.g. a Sony SS-U521 AV with the same 12" woofer, 270 watts max rating, 8ohms, could I get away with buying one of those woofers off Ebay and replacing mine if I needed to?
Probably not, but really impossible to say anything for certain.
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Just my 2 cents in this. I think surround replacement is one of the easier things to do yourself as long as you follow the directions. I was reforming speakers when i was barely a teenager. I did screw up one pair by accidentally forgetting to manually move the cone which aligns the surround (when you glue it you have to then push it carefully in and out while the glue is wet to get it to self align). I’ll admit to probably being an unusual 12 year old. I was measuring speakers by that time, including T/S parameters. I remember the foam being pretty easy though.

however I don’t think a speaker like the OP has is worth fixing. The foam kits cost as much as the speaker is worth. Anything modern and decent will be better.

Just don’t want people scared off of doing foam surrounds. If you can follow directions and be meticulous, it’s not too hard to do.
Right now I have someone refoaming and centering the voice coil on the two active 12" woofers, am I correct to assume that since the passive radiator 12" woofers have no voice coil to center, I can refoam them myself with little worry about messing them up or should I have those professionally done as well?

Also, I know it will sound different but if I wait to refoam the rotted surrounds on the passive radiators, can I play music without worrying about damaging the active woofers?
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Right now I have someone refoaming and centering the voice coil on the two active 12" woofers, am I correct to assume that since the passive radiator 12" woofers have no voice coil to center, I can refoam them myself with little worry about messing them up or should I have those professionally done as well?

Also, I know it will sound different but if I wait to refoam the rotted surrounds on the passive radiators, can I play music without worrying about damaging the active woofers?
You might well damage them, as the drivers won't see the correct restoring force. Also if those ABRs have leaky surrounds those speakers are not going to sound correct.

With your level of experience and not getting a second chance if you ruin the ABRs, I would have them professionally restored. You seem to really be attached to those speakers for some odd reason, and if you ruin them I doubt you will ever duplicate that sound. Personally, I would not give those speakers house room, but you seem to like them.
 
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AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
You might well damage them, as the drivers won't see the correct restoring force. Also if those ABRs have leaky surrounds those speakers are not going to sound correct.

With your level of experience and not getting a second chance if you ruin the ABRs, I would have them professionally restored. You seem to really be attached to those speakers for some odd reason, and if you ruin them I doubt you will ever duplicate that sound. Personally, I would not give those speakers house room, but you seem to like them.
I get why you view the speakers as inferior, they probably are, but a couple of things; I do like the sound and the open musical feel they offer, to duplicate it, we're probably looking at $600 to $1k, and a possible bunch of returns along the way, since I like this sound, why go through the potential returns hassle and spend $1k just to get me to a similar level of listening happiness.

To the assertion that I will find them impossible to duplicate, I don't think so, after listening to these FS52's, while they do crumble at loud levels, on moderate to low levels, I find them to be close to the inferior Sony Towers, thus it certainly is possible but it certainly will take some trial and error.

In essence at moderate levels, I can't discern that much difference with the old paper cones and the material that these Pioneer FS52's use, it is just that as you go louder, the sound gets muddy and boxy and closed in and the tweeters get bright, while when I raise the volume on the SS-U501 Tower's, it opens up, as if I'm in the middle of a Symphony Orchestra.

Finally, I did come across a few modern brands that do use paper cones but again, this affords me more time to test speakers at a slow pace.
 
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AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
It is not that simple when replacing one driver with a completely different one. If it was the exact same driver, then yes it would be that simple.

Without knowing the thiele-small parameters of the original woofer it will be impossible to know what will be a good fit. A newer woofer is going to have very different parameters from that old one. All these parameters relate to how well it will work in a given box size, what specific crossover frequencies will work best, how much power it can handle, it's frequency extension, and so on and so on.
Another question to you and the other experts here, I'm chatting with Parts Express and he is advising me that the passive radiator needs to have twice the Xmax (cone travel) as the active woofer. Clearly I'm not going to be able to confirm this win pinpoint accuracy, is this a case of overkill, meaning if I refoam it with foam surrounds and not rubber surrounds, I'll get close enough that the sound differences will be neglible and the chance at speaker damage will be minimal?

And what side of the aisle should I err on as far as refoaming the passives, is it just a case that you want to glue it properly to not allow air in, or maybe it is a case where using the butyl rubber surrounds would ensure the fitting will not be loose and offer further protection or just stick with trying to match the original material as best as possible is the best way to go?

Thanks.
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
You might well damage them, as the drivers won't see the correct restoring force. Also if those ABRs have leaky surrounds those speakers are not going to sound correct.

With your level of experience and not getting a second chance if you ruin the ABRs, I would have them professionally restored. You seem to really be attached to those speakers for some odd reason, and if you ruin them I doubt you will ever duplicate that sound. Personally, I would not give those speakers house room, but you seem to like them.
TLS Guy, I'm here to report that you were correct, with humility I now realize that of course, the professionals here know what they are writing about.

The refoaming did alter the sound signature somewhat, not to anything horrible, it is close at low to moderate levels, but with certain sources it can't match the old style at loud levels. The problem is that you can't buy the original foam and the originals were thin, the generic replacements are too dense, does anyone know how this alters the bass, I only want to know so it will help inform me for future purchases.

It is not a total loss because it is close enough that I can still enjoy the music and use it for tv while I take my time to find a replacement but if I had it to do all over again, I would have saved the money towards the new purchase.

Despite the reports of shipping damage, I wish I had rolled the dice on those DCM TFE100's because based on the track record of the information posted here, it most likely would have been a success. You live and learn.
 

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