Are these Old Speakers Dying, if So Can you Recommend a modern Equivalent.

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I'm simply gathering information, I want to consider a range of options, OK so the consensus is that at $250 and below, you can't match the DCM offerings, let's say the DCM's sold out, what would be in your opinion the next line of speakers that would match the DCM quality, thanks.

And to the others here, if these were at Best Buy they would have been bought already based on your input, the return process for the DCM's will not be fun, so for anyone who wants to reply, I pose the same question, what would be the next step up in price to match the quality of the DCM's?
To match the DCMs plan on spending $300-$500 PER SPEAKER. So $600 to $1000 to match the quality (TP series or TFE series). I would have already bought them by now, lol. In fact I did. And I have no need for any more speakers...
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Those are your particular speakers or just a photo like yours?

Don't know what you mean by bottom woofer is just for show, foam only. An audiophile is merely someone enthusiastic about hi-fi audio reproduction....if you're here you could easily be an audiophile :) It's good to have more experience and knowledge of course....and you've come to a good place I think.

So by foam are you referring to a speaker's surround like in this article https://www.speakerworks.com/speaker-repair-kits-s/65.htm ? You could be having issues with the voice coil, when you press on the speaker cone are you getting any roughness/scraping as the cone goes back and forth?

Hard to know what a speaker's wattage rating means, often just a max power before meltdown, so not terribly useful except as a guideline as a limit. Many modern speakers don't come with large woofers, but some do. You can also supplement speakers with subwoofers.
I doubt I will try to refoam these but for future reference, when I press on the cone, you get a scratching or vibrating like distortion amplified as you press down, is this a sign that it could be the voice coil?
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Your welcome
Well you were all correct about Youtube videos being an impossible sound judge, I just tested out the Sony Core SSCS5's, OK, I'll admit they are not horrible in general but these are subpar in my opinion. It had a washed out, raspy type of tone, is that the supertweeter effect?

I don't know what some of the reviews were writing about on other websites about soundstage, you moved a little to the left or right and the musical impact was lost. It was missing something on classical music, seemed like it could handle rap and Metallica type stuff fairly well, dialogue on tv and sirius talk radio was OK, not horrible, slight rasp, the louder you went, the worse the dialogue sounded.

In general it reinforced the fact that even though I'm listening in a small room, a tower speaker is needed although I'm sure a higher end bookshelf could change things.

It is apparent that the DCM-TP260's are the only option at this point, one question, in trying to match my old Sony SS-U501's as much as possible, it has a passive radiator, is there a big difference with the ported bass hole at the bottom of the DCM's?

I'm listening to my Tower vintage speakers right now, Copland's Symphony #3, the horns (or maybe they are trombones or trumpets) come on and it fills up the room, 13 volume on this archaic Sony shelf system, I can move to any part of the room and there is no difference in the sound impact, farther away, yes slightly lower but the sound feels the same depth if that makes any sense, almost as if I'm sitting at a classical concert.

I hope these DCM's can provide that.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Well you were all correct about Youtube videos being an impossible sound judge, I just tested out the Sony Core SSCS5's, OK, I'll admit they are not horrible in general but these are subpar in my opinion. It had a washed out, raspy type of tone, is that the supertweeter effect?

I don't know what some of the reviews were writing about on other websites about soundstage, you moved a little to the left or right and the musical impact was lost. It was missing something on classical music, seemed like it could handle rap and Metallica type stuff fairly well, dialogue on tv and sirius talk radio was OK, not horrible, slight rasp, the louder you went, the worse the dialogue sounded.

In general it reinforced the fact that even though I'm listening in a small room, a tower speaker is needed although I'm sure a higher end bookshelf could change things.

It is apparent that the DCM-TP260's are the only option at this point, one question, in trying to match my old Sony SS-U501's as much as possible, it has a passive radiator, is there a big difference with the ported bass hole at the bottom of the DCM's?

I'm listening to my Tower vintage speakers right now, Copland's Symphony #3, the horns (or maybe they are trombones or trumpets) come on and it fills up the room, 13 volume on this archaic Sony shelf system, I can move to any part of the room and there is no difference in the sound impact, farther away, yes slightly lower but the sound feels the same depth if that makes any sense, almost as if I'm sitting at a classical concert.

I hope these DCM's can provide that.
I'm very much afraid a modern speaker will come as a shock to you. You have got used to the sound of these old style Far Eastern speakers. Large woofer, paper cone mid range that was usually a TV speaker and cone tweeter! Honestly none of them were really any good. I will be honest they were as a breed awful. You however have had them a long time so this is what you are used to and is your base line. No modern speaker is going to sound anything like those.

The ABR versus port is a non issue.

So I think you need to get your current woofers repaired. I have a horrible feeling you are not going to be happy with new speakers, no matter how much better they are. I'm prepared to be wrong about that, but I fear I will not be.
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
I'm very much afraid a modern speaker will come as a shock to you. You have got used to the sound of these old style Far Eastern speakers. Large woofer, paper cone mid range that was usually a TV speaker and cone tweeter! Honestly none of them were really any good. I will be honest they were as a breed awful. You however have had them a long time so this is what you are used to and is your base line. No modern speaker is going to sound anything like those.

The ABR versus port is a non issue.

So I think you need to get your current woofers repaired. I have a horrible feeling you are not going to be happy with new speakers, no matter how much better they are. I'm prepared to be wrong about that, but I fear I will not be.
I'm very much afraid a modern speaker will come as a shock to you. You have got used to the sound of these old style Far Eastern speakers. Large woofer, paper cone mid range that was usually a TV speaker and cone tweeter! Honestly none of them were really any good. I will be honest they were as a breed awful. You however have had them a long time so this is what you are used to and is your base line. No modern speaker is going to sound anything like those.

The ABR versus port is a non issue.

So I think you need to get your current woofers repaired. I have a horrible feeling you are not going to be happy with new speakers, no matter how much better they are. I'm prepared to be wrong about that, but I fear I will not be.
I don't think you are correct, it is possible but the sound I seek is very simple, heck, the Youtube Video on the bookshelf DCM's that I posted, if it could sound like that in person, perfect, it could be true that the sound I seek is at the 1k or 2k range, if so then that is what I will spend.

DCM's are probably up next, if they don't work out, then I'll be back here looking for $600 to $800 recommendations, hopefully a few posters will still be willing to give me advice, thanks to all for the help, I know when newbies like me show up it can be taxing.

One other note, certainly you can't write that I won't be happy with anything based off my dissatisfaction with these Sony core bookshelves, I did not report that they are horrible, the sound is not that far off but I would definitely characterize them as being hyped.
 
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A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
I'm very much afraid a modern speaker will come as a shock to you. You have got used to the sound of these old style Far Eastern speakers. Large woofer, paper cone mid range that was usually a TV speaker and cone tweeter! Honestly none of them were really any good. I will be honest they were as a breed awful. You however have had them a long time so this is what you are used to and is your base line. No modern speaker is going to sound anything like those.

The ABR versus port is a non issue.

So I think you need to get your current woofers repaired. I have a horrible feeling you are not going to be happy with new speakers, no matter how much better they are. I'm prepared to be wrong about that, but I fear I will not be.
While I disagree with your overall premise (of course you could be right), if I do want to give myself more time to demo and find the speakers that I like, how simple would it be to just replace the problem woofer with this 12" paper cone replacement one: https://www.parts-express.com/grs-12pf-8-12-paper-cone-foam-surround-woofer--292-412

Is it as simple as taking the two wires out of the old one and connecting it to this replacement one?

Schematic of the original is here: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/model/2rr7xqd5yt-000996/sony-ss-u501av-speaker-parts

Thanks.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Chief
Is it as simple as taking the two wires out of the old one and connecting it to this replacement one?
It is not that simple when replacing one driver with a completely different one. If it was the exact same driver, then yes it would be that simple.

Without knowing the thiele-small parameters of the original woofer it will be impossible to know what will be a good fit. A newer woofer is going to have very different parameters from that old one. All these parameters relate to how well it will work in a given box size, what specific crossover frequencies will work best, how much power it can handle, it's frequency extension, and so on and so on.
 
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AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
It is not that simple when replacing one driver with a completely different one. If it was the exact same driver, then yes it would be that simple.

Without knowing the thiele-small parameters of the original woofer it will be impossible to know what will be a good fit. A newer woofer is going to have very different parameters from that old one. All these parameters relate to how well it will work in a given box size, what specific crossover frequencies will work best, how much power it can handle, it's frequency extension, and so on and so on.
A reviewer wrote he used these to replace the woofers in his Sony SS-U701AV which has the same specs as my SS-U501 AV, if true, would that mean I could simply plug and play these:

 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Chief
A reviewer wrote he used these to replace the woofers in his Sony SS-U701AV which has the same specs as my SS-U501 AV, if true, would that mean I could simply plug and play these:

From the Q&A section on that woofer:

Q: I am clueless about speakers. I have two Sony ss-u501 speakers. Sound is cracked. The hole in the speaker box is 10 5/8 inches. Would these speakers fit? If not do you have a pair that would?. Also what is the bottom speaker? The foam is shot, but it doesn't connect to anything. Thanks for your help.
Asked by: Paul - 11/21/2017
A: Sorry, the hole cut-out in your cabinet needs to be 11" for the new woofers to fit. For your Sony model, we recommend and use the foam edge replacement kits. We have an easy to follow video to guide you through the repairs. Order repair kit # SNY-FSK-12A-4. This will fix the woofers and the passive radiators (look like woofers but without magnets). Thanks!
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A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
From the Q&A section on that woofer:

Q: I am clueless about speakers. I have two Sony ss-u501 speakers. Sound is cracked. The hole in the speaker box is 10 5/8 inches. Would these speakers fit? If not do you have a pair that would?. Also what is the bottom speaker? The foam is shot, but it doesn't connect to anything. Thanks for your help.
Asked by: Paul - 11/21/2017
A: Sorry, the hole cut-out in your cabinet needs to be 11" for the new woofers to fit. For your Sony model, we recommend and use the foam edge replacement kits. We have an easy to follow video to guide you through the repairs. Order repair kit # SNY-FSK-12A-4. This will fix the woofers and the passive radiators (look like woofers but without magnets). Thanks!
Was this answer helpful? 0 of 0 Customer(s) found this Answer helpful.
On this one a reviewer mentions it fits: https://www.parts-express.com/grs-12pf-8-12-paper-cone-foam-surround-woofer--292-412
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Chief
Just because it fits does not mean it will sound the same. Like I said earlier there is a lot more that goes into it than just will it fit.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
You can not exchange speaker drivers. The T/s parameters of drivers are unique. The driver you site is a particularly cheap and nasty one. It has a total Qts of 1.54! and will be a really horrid boomer.

If you want to keep your speakers, I would send those drivers away to be professionally refoamed. It is my opinion that it is either that or new speakers. The choice is yours.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Floorstanding old 1990 Sony SS-U501 Speakers, you can see them here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/202221328292

The bottom woofer is just for show, foam only, OK, I realize these are not considered great speakers but I've stuck with them because even with a low grade $200 Sony MHC-GX450, it sounds good to me, clearly I am no audiophile but if these speakers are going I would like to learn what could be a modern equivalent in terms of power and clean sound.

It is 8 ohms at 270 watts, does that mean 270 is the peak, I think the woofer is 12", not certain modern speakers are even made in that size but if I have to replace them, what could be a sub $500 replacement and sub $1000 replacement?

Finally the original question, are they dying, this is happening to one speaker, you get like a sort of echo, faint but noticeable on dialogue for tv/movies and fm radio announcers etc. But here is the odd thing, I take the speaker cover off, manipulate the foam with my hands and the echo interference is gone, in the past month this echo effect has only happened twice and each time I just move the foam, goes away, magic, coincidence, some build up of what??? I don't know, luck, who knows, this whole thread is a longshot because I realize that many factors could be causing such interference including possibly a neighbor's wifi, but I'm just throwing it out there in hopes somebody else has dealt with this.

Also part of the foam covering has broken away and I don't know if that is influencing things but this echo effect is so isolated, I'm not even certain an echo is the right word, kind of like each word is elongated at the end in a hiss type fashion.

Thanks for your time and help.
There's good news for you. A visit to Best Buy's will get you all the answers you seek; plus, you will be able to hear some of what's out there today. Sony has some very inexpensive floorstanding and bookshelf speakers today that sound amazing. Restoration of your current speakers will not deliver for the money what you will get from new speakers.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
In the original post the first link are the actual speakers, someone is selling their own on ebay. The bottom is just an empty grill with foam over it to look as though it is a functioning speaker, it is just there in case you wanted to actually add another 12" woofer.
No manufacturer made speakers with the intent of customers adding another woofer.
 
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AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Holy cow, just buy the DCM speakers!
Iit is my nature to go against the grain but now that the experts have weighed in, I realize that replacing the woofer is out of the question. Perhaps I could refoam on my own, one site charges $45, another a minimum of $75 per woofer.

I probably will do an A/B test of the DCM's vs. the Pioneer FS52's and while 99 percent of the people here would vote for the DCM's, it is all subjective and I suspect that I might prefer the FS52's. The one speaker I have demoed is the Sony Core SSCS5 and while it was decent, it had this reigned in hollow sound with what I perceived to be the low end and on what I perceive to be the top end, a slight harshness, maybe a little sibilance on dialogue. If the DCM is anything like that sound signature then I won't like it.

As I wrote before, I will also visit Best Buy this week but I don't think they have the variety of speakers that they had five to ten years ago. And I would spend more money if I knew for certain XYZ brand had the sound style that I prefer, if you read reviews, you can find five people calling a speaker bright and five people calling that same speaker warm, the only thing that matters is listening and who wants to demo five different brands and go through the return process.

That is why I came back to this thread to see if I could save this speaker, that would allow me to demo a new brand every three months.

I also returned because of the longshot that someone could say this Brand XYZ, this would be the closest to your cheap paper cones, my research pointed to me the NHT SuperZero 2.1's which use paper cones and seem to have a neutral or natural sound but I am skeptical they could fill the room like this tower does.

With this tower, it has a 12" woofer, a 4 or 4.5" mid, a 2 or 2.5" tweeter, if I don't need heavy earth shattering bass, just on the diameter aspects, practically speaking, what would be necessary to reach a similar soundstage? That would be one metric solved, then I would need to find the sound signature or sound style that was close enough.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Iit is my nature to go against the grain but now that the experts have weighed in, I realize that replacing the woofer is out of the question. Perhaps I could refoam on my own, one site charges $45, another a minimum of $75 per woofer.

I probably will do an A/B test of the DCM's vs. the Pioneer FS52's and while 99 percent of the people here would vote for the DCM's, it is all subjective and I suspect that I might prefer the FS52's. The one speaker I have demoed is the Sony Core SSCS5 and while it was decent, it had this reigned in hollow sound with what I perceived to be the low end and on what I perceive to be the top end, a slight harshness, maybe a little sibilance on dialogue. If the DCM is anything like that sound signature then I won't like it.

As I wrote before, I will also visit Best Buy this week but I don't think they have the variety of speakers that they had five to ten years ago. And I would spend more money if I knew for certain XYZ brand had the sound style that I prefer, if you read reviews, you can find five people calling a speaker bright and five people calling that same speaker warm, the only thing that matters is listening and who wants to demo five different brands and go through the return process.

That is why I came back to this thread to see if I could save this speaker, that would allow me to demo a new brand every three months.

I also returned because of the longshot that someone could say this Brand XYZ, this would be the closest to your cheap paper cones, my research pointed to me the NHT SuperZero 2.1's which use paper cones and seem to have a neutral or natural sound but I am skeptical they could fill the room like this tower does.

With this tower, it has a 12" woofer, a 4 or 4.5" mid, a 2 or 2.5" tweeter, if I don't need heavy earth shattering bass, just on the diameter aspects, practically speaking, what would be necessary to reach a similar soundstage? That would be one metric solved, then I would need to find the sound signature or sound style that was close enough.
Organize your thoughts in a manner that clarifies whether it's better to buy new or restore old. I'd start by auditioning speaker's at Best Buy's. Now, I've got a pair of 34 year old JBL L100t3's. These needed to be refoamed about 3 years ago. Refoaming was the way to go rather than buying new woofers or new speakers for a multitude of reasons but mostly because speaker replacement for comparable sound would have cost me about $4000 vs. $90 to get sound I've enjoyed and been satisfied with for over 34 years. In your case cost of restoration or replacement will not be so divergent, so the question is this: does the sound of your speakers satisfy you more than what's out you have auditioned?
 
A

AudioGekko

Junior Audioholic
Organize your thoughts in a manner that clarifies whether it's better to buy new or restore old. I'd start by auditioning speaker's at Best Buy's. Now, I've got a pair of 34 year old JBL L100t3's. These needed to be refoamed about 3 years ago. Refoaming was the way to go rather than buying new woofers or new speakers for a multitude of reasons but mostly because speaker replacement for comparable sound would have cost me about $4000 vs. $90 to get sound I've enjoyed and been satisfied with for over 34 years. In your case cost of restoration or replacement will not be so divergent, so the question is this: does the sound of your speakers satisfy you more than what's out you have auditioned?
Yes so far but I have only auditioned the Sony Cores, which company repaired your JBL's?


But in a perfect world I would like to accomplish both, salvage these and eventually find the modern brand that fits the sound signature I like.
 
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