Apparently, someone was listening- Marantz 2 channel AVR

highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,375 12 15
#21
Was that when higher sensitivity speakers were in vogue? How will people get their speakers to sing to their full potential?! ;) Still, its on the light side....
What is the average power output when people are listening? It's around 1 Watt, maybe 2. Sure, we crank it up at times, but most people don't actually use 75W. Look at a VU meter or RTA with analog sources vs digital- even when CDs first came out, they had less dynamic range than LPs and I watched this on all kinds of equipment at that time. In many cases, I would see that the LP was at -30dB and the same passage on the CD would be at -20dB.

How much power do you think is appropriate, when the manufacturer wants to hit a price point of $599?

We had dirt, but we were happy!

(you had dirt?)
 
Zildjianmeister

Zildjianmeister

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
12
#22
I believe their marketing is a bit deceiving. They state "The Marantz NR1200 stereo receiver easily rivals a sound bar for all of your home theater, delivering superior audio quality, higher power to your choice of loudspeakers and greater connectivity for audio and video sources. "

I agree it would be much better than a sound bar but there would be no LFE and that may disappoint someone who thinks they can buy this and have that LFE with the sub connection. Although the target audience would be fine with 2.1 stereo.

When I tried my parasound integrated in 2.1 for the first time with movies I missed the lfe and then connected my avr to it.

Z
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
6,174 21 51
#23
What is the average power output when people are listening? It's around 1 Watt, maybe 2. Sure, we crank it up at times, but most people don't actually use 75W. Look at a VU meter or RTA with analog sources vs digital- even when CDs first came out, they had less dynamic range than LPs and I watched this on all kinds of equipment at that time. In many cases, I would see that the LP was at -30dB and the same passage on the CD would be at -20dB.

How much power do you think is appropriate, when the manufacturer wants to hit a price point of $599?

We had dirt, but we were happy!

(you had dirt?)
Just seems like an odd power point for a good 2ch stand alone unit, double that would be more to my thinking and a waste to just have to turn around and put a power amp on it. CDs have more inherent dynamic range than LPs, its just a matter of the recording's use of that. (as I'm sure you know....it just sounds different as written). Sure, it may be enough actual power but compared to avrs that do much better in 2ch than this I just don't see the point (then again I don't see much value in a unit that only does 2ch). Maybe its the best they can do at that price point without going class D amps?
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
782 6 13
#24
I like it, but it wasn't me they were listening to, obviously. ;) How many times do I have to repeat; USB B!! You connect it to your PC it automatically installs a Marantz certified player and you send digital to the DAC. Your PC's HDMI you have to use for other things already and not many laptops come with coaxial or digital out.

I know a lot of you don't see anything interesting in an amp with the USB, but it would be of use to me.

The way I listen to music, and somehow I suspect a lot of you would smirk at that, is I'm in a way my own DJ. I sit with my laptop with mountains of digital files in my chair and I play myself different tunes. I think about music and what crosses my mind I look up for and play it.

I don't think laptops are all that good as players and I would like to send digital to the amp. Now I play it on my phones out. Also, it can't be a desktop PC as it is not as practical.

Another thing that I'm interested in is phono-in. Again, somethingt that many of members here don't really worry about and I was one of them until recently.

QUESTION Is there any particular reason why you couldn't use the already built-in DSP to turn on/off the subsonic and infrasonic filters? (Other than the obvious one; going A - D - A) I guess the converting is enough of a problem in itself as DSP people and vinyl people don't really mix all that much.

Anyway, If I had to choose between no subsonic and going analog/digital/analog I'd choose the latter. Then again, nothing is really sacred to me in audio other than good sound.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,083 2 2
#25
WTF does "Built for pure Marantz musical reproduction" mean? Really?

Outside of the aesthetics & space savings, I don't get it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
7,809 16 25
#26
Got an e-mail from the regional Marantz rep with info about the NR-1200 receiver. Five HDMI inputs, HEOS, decent power, phono input and can be voice-controlled by several methods.

Wasn't sure I would see this kind of thing anytime soon- the AVR manufacturers seemed to have a death grip on multi-channel and adding BS just because they could. Let's see who follows suit.

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avreceivers&ProductId=NR1200
Thanks for reporting on this. This is a badly needed product. I have noted for years, that so many members rooms, most probably, are totally unsuited to multi channel sound.

Far more people would be better off with two really good speakers and a sub, even the latter is discretionary. A good set of speakers will not miss a center channel. In fact two good speakers will have better dialog quality than most centers provide. Most centers are a massive weak link.

No Audyssey is a very good sign. They have got rid of another quality spoiler. 75 watts per channel is enough to power most speakers in the average room. In any event it has pre outs for a bigger amp.

I will be recommending this unit often. I think it is in fact the optimal receiver for most consumers. This unit with a couple of decent speakers aces a sound bar.

I really applaud the appearance of this unit.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
7,809 16 25
#27
WTF does "Built for pure Marantz musical reproduction" mean? Really?

Outside of the aesthetics & space savings, I don't get it.
It means they have useless marketers on their pay roll as usual. If only CEOs would realize that people who are paid to spout this nonsense actually put people off and reduce sales. These types are actually a true negative and worse than a waste of their paycheck. The savvy consumer just has to look past those idiotic wordsmiths.
 
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T

TankTop5

Full Audioholic
Ratings
106 5 1
#28
No Audyssey is a very good sign. They have got rid of another quality spoiler.

I disagree, turn it off if you don’t want it, my L shaped room could use some room correction software. That’s the one thing I want in a 2ch receiver but those are quadruple the price of this thing.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,375 12 15
#29
I believe their marketing is a bit deceiving. They state "The Marantz NR1200 stereo receiver easily rivals a sound bar for all of your home theater, delivering superior audio quality, higher power to your choice of loudspeakers and greater connectivity for audio and video sources. "

I agree it would be much better than a sound bar but there would be no LFE and that may disappoint someone who thinks they can buy this and have that LFE with the sub connection. Although the target audience would be fine with 2.1 stereo.

When I tried my parasound integrated in 2.1 for the first time with movies I missed the lfe and then connected my avr to it.

Z
They go too far with their description and then, they back it up by saying it's better than a soundbar- that's a worthy goal.

I haven't had surround because my room's shape & size make it a very difficult proposition and I really don't miss it. Dialog on everything is exceptional, though; when it's supposed to be centered, it's at dead center, it's extremely realistic and when I have heard someone I know on the radio, it was as if they were in the room with me. My speakers hit the low notes well enough that I stopped using my sub- rumble during special effects is not lacking.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
7,809 16 25
#30
I disagree, turn it off if you don’t want it, my L shaped room could use some room correction software. That’s the one thing I want in a 2ch receiver but those are quadruple the price of this thing.
I don't want to pay for the nonsense, nor to I want my friends who I recommend the unit to have to pay for it.

75 watts per channel will be enough for the average listener. WAF is a serious issue for many and size matters. Now what is needed is more good and elegant easily affordable speakers. I know that is a tall order. I know lots of people condemned to TV speakers and listening to their music via Alexa.

Having a unit like this gives you a good leg up. It is not having units like this that is one of the reasons for the decline of home audio producing high quality in domestic spaces.

I don't buy your L-shaped room excuse. Good uncolored speakers perform well in a myriad of environments. Money saved on auto Eq software would be much better devoted to better speakers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,375 12 15
#31
I like it, but it wasn't me they were listening to, obviously. ;) How many times do I have to repeat; USB B!! You connect it to your PC it automatically installs a Marantz certified player and you send digital to the DAC. Your PC's HDMI you have to use for other things already and not many laptops come with coaxial or digital out.

I know a lot of you don't see anything interesting in an amp with the USB, but it would be of use to me.

The way I listen to music, and somehow I suspect a lot of you would smirk at that, is I'm in a way my own DJ. I sit with my laptop with mountains of digital files in my chair and I play myself different tunes. I think about music and what crosses my mind I look up for and play it.

I don't think laptops are all that good as players and I would like to send digital to the amp. Now I play it on my phones out. Also, it can't be a desktop PC as it is not as practical.

Another thing that I'm interested in is phono-in. Again, somethingt that many of members here don't really worry about and I was one of them until recently.

QUESTION Is there any particular reason why you couldn't use the already built-in DSP to turn on/off the subsonic and infrasonic filters? (Other than the obvious one; going A - D - A) I guess the converting is enough of a problem in itself as DSP people and vinyl people don't really mix all that much.

Anyway, If I had to choose between no subsonic and going analog/digital/analog I'd choose the latter. Then again, nothing is really sacred to me in audio other than good sound.
With HEOS, Bluetooth and AirPlay, you don't really need USB- you can stream directly to the receiver over the network.

You could also use a program such as Audacity to record your LPs to your computer and in Audacity, use a High Pass filter for the rumble. If you use a smart phone, that would allow you to listen to the music from your LPs away from home.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,375 12 15
#32
Good uncolored speakers perform well in a myriad of environments. Money saved on auto Eq software would be much better devoted to better speakers.
You may remember sending a crossover design to me when I was building a pair of speakers- with a bit of padding for the tweeters, they really are better than I had expected. I did a direct comparison with some Dynaudio Excite speakers and these definitely were up to that challenge. I once described Dynaudio speakers as allowing me to listen without thinking about the equipment and speakers. I turn it on and listen- that's a good thing because thinking about the equipment and any of its failings is neurotic.

I would think these could be sold for less than $1000, even after dealer markup and with a decent warranty because the drivers aren't terribly expensive- it was the crossovers that cost the most. Made in a factory and purchased in quantity, the cost of materials would make them worth considering.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
5,538 22 9
#35
That's not an AVR though, no HDMI. I welcome any entrant into the 2 channel AVR market.
And, while they have HDMI connections like the Marantz, neither the Denon DRA-800H nor the Onkyo TX-8270 has room correction!
I do like that the Onkyo manages the crossover between speakers and sub!
 
B

Beave

Full Audioholic
Ratings
297 1 2
#36
Denon is releasing (or just recently released) a similar two-channel/AVR hybrid, the
Denon DRA-800H

Note that this Marantz unit is basically the Marantz NR-1510 with some features/circuitry removed, and with the addition of the ability to power two sets (A&B) of stereo speakers.

They basically took a Marantz NR-1510 and redid the amplifier section so that it can power two sets of stereo speakers instead of one set of 5.1 speakers (ie, the amp section for the l/r surrounds becomes the amp section for B stereo speakers, and the amp section for the center channel is removed).

So if that is an important feature - powering A&B speakers - then these are welcome units.

Otherwise, you're paying the same, or more, for less than you'd get with their similar AVR model (in this case both the Marantz models list for $599).
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
5,538 22 9
#37
Denon is releasing (or just recently released) a similar two-channel/AVR hybrid, the
Denon DRA-800H

Note that this Marantz unit is basically the Marantz NR-1510 with some features/circuitry removed, and with the addition of the ability to power two sets (A&B) of stereo speakers.

They basically took a Marantz NR-1510 and redid the amplifier section so that it can power two sets of stereo speakers instead of one set of 5.1 speakers (ie, the amp section for the l/r surrounds becomes the amp section for B stereo speakers, and the amp section for the center channel is removed).

So if that is an important feature - powering A&B speakers - then these are welcome units.

Otherwise, you're paying the same, or more, for less than you'd get with their similar AVR model (in this case both the Marantz models list for $599).
That is cool that they actually have discrete amps for the B speakers! Usually it is just a splitter inside the unit and halves the impedance which can be problematic for many amp sections!
 
B

Beave

Full Audioholic
Ratings
297 1 2
#38
^I *think* that's the case, but I'm not entirely sure.

I've been looking at images of the insides of the NR1200 to try to get a feel for what they did.

It uses the same HDMI board as the NR1510, and it also appears to use the same power supply transformer and capacitors.

They did add front panel bass, treble, and balance knobs on this new unit, which weren't present on the NR1510.
 
T

TankTop5

Full Audioholic
Ratings
106 5 1
#39
Will you be able to cross over the mains and subs LFE like a AVR or will you be subject to bass/treble/loudness?
 

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