anyone one living on Long Island NY willing to help calibrate my setup?

[Wellz]

Good day all,

I recently added an SVS SB-12NSD subwoofer to my setup. so at the moment I have a the Full line (minus the Elite Sub) of Pioneer Elite Dolby Atmos speakers designed by Andrew Jones mated to the SVS sub. These are being driven by a 2015 Pioneer Elite SC-95 AVR. The room is on the top floor of a Cape Cod style home and is approximately 14'Wx18'Lx8'H so the overall space is just over 2000 cubic feet. Based on the Audioholic room size recommendation, the SVS SB-12NSD should do fine in this room.

I've done several sub-crawls and recalibrated the system (using the MCACC PRO program that comes with the AVR) every time I've changed locations of the sub. Most recently I switched the subwoofer phase to 180* based on where the sub is now positioned and that seems to have added back some of the sound that I felt was missing.

As some of you might know, the SB-12NSD is a 12 inch sealed sub with a 400 watts RMS (800 peak) Sledge amplifier. Prior to the SB12-NSD I was using two 8 inch ported subs. one was the Pioneer SW-8MK2 which is rated at 50 watts RMS, and the other was an older JBL SCS135 rated at 100 watts RMS. those two combined provided what I believe to be a nice sound with plenty of punch, but I wanted to see what I was missing with regard to the lower bass frequencies which these in theory were not able to reproduce.

I understand that the sound from a sealed sub vs a ported sub could sometimes be very different (especially for movie watching). But I figured that the extra wattage, larger size of the woofer and the additional lower bass extension of the SB12-NSD as compared to either one of my previous subs, should provide for an overall better auditory and tactile experience. So far, I'm still working on finding it. I do feel much more of a rumble but some how I "feel" like something is still missing.

For this reason, I'm hoping that someone who has listened to a well calibrated setup can give me a hand, and perhaps even teach me a bit more on the subject.

 

[Auditor55]

Good day all,

I recently added an SVS SB-12NSD subwoofer to my setup. so at the moment I have a the Full line (minus the Elite Sub) of Pioneer Elite Dolby Atmos speakers designed by Andrew Jones mated to the SVS sub. These are being driven by a 2015 Pioneer Elite SC-95 AVR. The room is on the top floor of a Cape Cod style home and is approximately 14'Wx18'Lx8'H so the overall space is just over 2000 cubic feet. Based on the Audioholic room size recommendation, the SVS SB-12NSD should do fine in this room.

I've done several sub-crawls and recalibrated the system (using the MCACC PRO program that comes with the AVR) every time I've changed locations of the sub. Most recently I switched the subwoofer phase to 180* based on where the sub is now positioned and that seems to have added back some of the sound that I felt was missing.

As some of you might know, the SB-12NSD is a 12 inch sealed sub with a 400 watts RMS (800 peak) Sledge amplifier. Prior to the SB12-NSD I was using two 8 inch ported subs. one was the Pioneer SW-8MK2 which is rated at 50 watts RMS, and the other was an older JBL SCS135 rated at 100 watts RMS. those two combined provided what I believe to be a nice sound with plenty of punch, but I wanted to see what I was missing with regard to the lower bass frequencies which these in theory were not able to reproduce.

I understand that the sound from a sealed sub vs a ported sub could sometimes be very different (especially for movie watching). But I figured that the extra wattage, larger size of the woofer and the additional lower bass extension of the SB12-NSD as compared to either one of my previous subs, should provide for an overall better auditory and tactile experience. So far, I'm still working on finding it. I do feel much more of a rumble but some how I "feel" like something is still missing.

For this reason, I'm hoping that someone who has listened to a well calibrated setup can give me a hand, and perhaps even teach me a bit more on the subject.

During your subwoofer crawl did you find the spot in your room where the bass is louder and smoother? Did you place the sub in that spot? Is your room or primary listening area closed or open to other rooms?

Anyway, ported subs will typically are deep and louder(output) than sealed subs, are preferred by home theater enthusiast (for movie dominant systems) over sealed. Based upon your other purchases, Dolby Atmos speakers and AVR, it seems to me that you fit the profile and a predominant movie type over music, so you have purchased one or more of SVS ported subs.

It just sounds like it to me that you have null some where. Also, in my opinion, during the subwoofer crawl can make bass better in one area of the room and make worst in another each time you move it.

 

[crossedover]

During your subwoofer crawl did you find the spot in your room where the bass is louder and smoother? Did you place the sub in that spot? Is your room or primary listening area closed or open to other rooms?

Anyway, ported subs will typically are deep and louder(output) than sealed subs, are preferred by home theater enthusiast (for movie dominant systems) over sealed. Based upon your other purchases, Dolby Atmos speakers and AVR, it seems to me that you fit the profile and a predominant movie type over music, so you have purchased one or more of SVS ported subs.

It just sounds like it to me that you have null some where. Also, in my opinion, during the subwoofer crawl can make bass better in one area of the room and make worst in another each time you move it.

ported vs sealed doesnt make your argument.

 

[Wellz]

During your subwoofer crawl did you find the spot in your room where the bass is louder and smoother? Did you place the sub in that spot? Is your room or primary listening area closed or open to other rooms?

Anyway, ported subs will typically are deep and louder(output) than sealed subs, are preferred by home theater enthusiast (for movie dominant systems) over sealed. Based upon your other purchases, Dolby Atmos speakers and AVR, it seems to me that you fit the profile and a predominant movie type over music, so you have purchased one or more of SVS ported subs.

It just sounds like it to me that you have null some where. Also, in my opinion, during the subwoofer crawl can make bass better in one area of the room and make worst in another each time you move it.

During the crawl I identified four locations where the bass sounded best and then picked the one that had more detail. I recalibrated the system and listened to both music and movies. Assuming that the AVR would take care of the phase control, I left the phase set to zero. After listening again and feeling that there was a mid bass void, I manually swapped the phase of the sub to 180. This produces what I perceived to be more mid bass. Since I made that change I decided to read run the AVR calibration program again. This time I sounded fuller overall, but the limiter light is also coming on at times.

As far as the settings, the sub gain is at the mid point 12o'clock position. The sub setting on the avr is (-)3.5. The limiter light seems to come on at a main volume setting of (-)6db while playing the Dolby Atmos Amaze thunderstorm scene.
For as long as I've been into home theater my only points of reference have been my own systems. This is why I figured it might help to have someone who has been around properly tune systems, take a listen.

 

[crossedover]

During the crawl I identified four locations where the bass sounded best and then picked the one that had more detail. I recalibrated the system and listened to both music and movies. Assuming that the AVR would take care of the phase control, I left the phase set to zero. After listening again and feeling that there was a mid bass void, I manually swapped the phase of the sub to 180. This produces what I perceived to be more mid bass. Since I made that change I decided to read run the AVR calibration program again. This time I sounded fuller overall, but the limiter light is also coming on at times.

As far as the settings, the sub gain is at the mid point 12o'clock position. The sub setting on the avr is (-)3.5. The limiter light seems to come on at a main volume setting of (-)6db while playing the Dolby Atmos Amaze thunderstorm scene.
For as long as I've been into home theater my only points of reference have been my own systems. This is why I figured it might help to have someone who has been around properly tune systems, take a listen.

older but a good work flow for mcacc
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1112470-official-pioneer-mcacc-thread.html

 

[crossedover]

if you want more tweaking, these can help
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/new-products/minidsp-nanoavr-dl-digital-signal-processor/
http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

if you want more tweaking, these can help
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/new-products/minidsp-nanoavr-dl-digital-signal-processor/

why not simple MiniDSP ??
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

 

[crossedover]

why not simple MiniDSP ??
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

sure. its why i linked the nanoavr from mini dsp. minidsp alone is great, but plug n play no.

 

[shadyJ]

ported vs sealed doesnt make your argument.

Human perception of pitch definition is usually so poor at the tuning frequencies of these subs that I very much doubt anyone could tell the difference between them in a blind test if the frequency response is the same and neither suffers from any major flaws otherwise.

 

[crossedover]

Human perception of pitch definition is usually so poor at the tuning frequencies of these subs that I very much doubt anyone could tell the difference between them in a blind test if the frequency response is the same and neither suffers from any major flaws otherwise.

Im sure. Hell Ive had guest tell me my mains put out some serious bass. Meanwhile the 255 lbs of subs in the corner isnt even noticed guess if i took the kitty perch off the top people might ask whats that

 

[KEW]

Ive had guest tell me my mains put out some serious bass. Meanwhile the 255 lbs of subs in the corner isnt even noticed.

Sounds like an excellent system (for music at least - I kind of like to notice my subs for movies)!

 

[Auditor55]

if you want more tweaking, these can help
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/new-products/minidsp-nanoavr-dl-digital-signal-processor/
http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml

He doesn't need a minidsp or an Anti-mode because the receiver he owns (SC-95) has Sub-EQ.

 

[Auditor55]

older but a good work flow for mcacc
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1112470-official-pioneer-mcacc-thread.html

During the crawl I identified four locations where the bass sounded best and then picked the one that had more detail. I recalibrated the system and listened to both music and movies. Assuming that the AVR would take care of the phase control, I left the phase set to zero. After listening again and feeling that there was a mid bass void, I manually swapped the phase of the sub to 180. This produces what I perceived to be more mid bass. Since I made that change I decided to read run the AVR calibration program again. This time I sounded fuller overall, but the limiter light is also coming on at times.

As far as the settings, the sub gain is at the mid point 12o'clock position. The sub setting on the avr is (-)3.5. The limiter light seems to come on at a main volume setting of (-)6db while playing the Dolby Atmos Amaze thunderstorm scene.
For as long as I've been into home theater my only points of reference have been my own systems. This is why I figured it might help to have someone who has been around properly tune systems, take a listen.

You know SVS recommend setting the phase control to zero. Minus 6 dbs seems really loud, you might need to lower the level on the sub.

 

[crossedover]

He doesn't need a minidsp or an Anti-mode because the receiver he owns (SC-95) has Sub-EQ.

My point was in addition or more detailed setup than the auto EQ. My Pioneer is limited below 63hz, with MCACC so for the subs im outboard EQ. (is his liimited?) Thanks for letting me know he doesnt need it, Thats why I also linked to MCACC setup thread at AVS

 

[crossedover]

You know SVS recommend setting the phase control to zero. Minus 6 dbs seems really loud, you might need to lower the level on the sub.

SVS Recommending the phase control setting is a starting point not an absolute

 

[Auditor55]

My point was in addition or more detailed setup than the auto EQ. My Pioneer is limited below 63hz, with MCACC so for the subs im outboard EQ. (is his liimited?) Thanks for letting me know he doesnt need it, Thats why I also linked to MCACC setup thread at AVS

I understand what you are saying, I have a Pioneer receiver, the old models like mine don't have sub eq, but the new one do, like the SC-95. It even allows to you Eq subs independently in a multi-sub system.

 

[Wellz]

Thank you all for taking time to write your responses. Just to give you all a quick update, I'm back at square one with the system and the calibration. what I mean is that I will be resetting the SC-95 back to factory specs and restarting the calibration process tonight. Here is why:

Last night I stopped in at a local audio shopin Lake Grove named Audio Den. I went there hoping to get to listen to one of their home theater rooms but unfortunately the room is getting renovated. Instead, I was treated to an audition of a the Wilson Audio Sabrina speakers which were powered with a preamp and amp combo from Moon audio. Needless to say, they sounded awesome, but my biggest take-away was being able to listen to what they consider a to be well calibrated setup (albeit 2 channel stereo). So I went home and fired up my setup and listened to the same songs that were auditioned (a few from James Blake including one called "Limit to your Love" which will test your speakers bass capabilities). As I listened to my setup both in 2.0 Stereo mode as well as 2.1 Stereo, I Instantly noticed that something was not quite right. I went back to listening to the 2.0 because the sound was SO different I couldn't believe it. So I decided to go back into the MCACC PRO settings to review where the settings ended up after the last calibration. I noticed that the mid bass frequencies had being EQ'd much lower than the others, which could explain why I felt that the mid bass punch was absent. I then activated one of the MCACC memory settings that had not been programed, which would result in the AVR removing all of the calibration and playing in its natural unaltered state. To my surprise (and relief) this made a world of difference, as I could now hear the fullness in the music that missing. I sat back in my listening chair and enjoyed the sound that the 2.0 stereo setup was now producing. Of course it didn't have the lower bass extension that the Sabrinas have, but I'm ok with that, since the Sabrinas alone cost close to $17,000 for the pair, and the the Moon amps probably another $10,000.

This whole thing is bittersweet since I've reconfirmed the fact that I can get good sound from my setup, but I now have to systematically re-calibrate the whole system so that it can sound good for music as well as movies.
Now that I have research and experienced the capabilities of the MCACC PRO calibration program, I realize that there are a lot of different settings and adjustments that can be made but should not be left at the sole discretion of the FULL AUTO SETUP. My plan is to continue to read and test the effect of each of the settings, and hopefully arrive at one that gives me the best sound for my setup.

Thanks again to the gentleman that posted the link to the MCACC thread. If only there was a summary page that explained everything without having to go through through the 5,000 posts.