Any plans on reviewing this NAD integrated amp?

[KenM10759]

Exactly, and that is precisely what is required. People want to be able to get a picture with their audio, when they want. The market for audio only in my view is already miniscule and shrinking. I found out almost 20 years ago, that there is no point in designing and building a system you can't get a picture with when you need or want to.
Case in point, friends are over and whip out their cell phone and want to show something in high quality, all can view without crowding round a diminutive screen. Happens here all the time, and we are pushing eighty! The day of audio only has had is history, and is now the provenance of Luddites.

My dedicated music listening room has zero video capability. I wanted it that way, and have a multi-channel/dual subwoofer surround sound system in another room for when I really need that. Given that 95% of my music listening is in playing my modest record collection and it has no connection to video, my room and the gear in it are ideal for my needs. Am I a Luddite? Perhaps. Do I enjoy some *incredibly good* music? Only those who have sat in my chair could really know.

 

[highfigh]

At first, integrated amps were pure analog.

Next thing you know, they added USB, HDMI, network streaming, Room Correction, etc.

So these days, to make an “integrated amp”, all you have to do is take an AVR and simply remove all the amps and just keep 2CH amp.

And they'd need to remove the tuner and disable the surround decoding but that would also require new enclosures and production lines if they were to introduce more than one model. Then, there's the question of the power supply- if it's sized for a multi-channel AVR, why would they leave it in a 2 channel amp? They could design a supply that would be robust and more than enough for stereo and save money.

I think the AV industry needs to be challenged by consumers and the Custom Integration industry, to build equipment to OUR specs and needs, not "You'll take what we want to sell and you'll be happy!".

AH could take a poll and send the results to the manufacturers. With more than 75,000 members, I would think they might listen, especially since AH is a combination of end users without technical knowledge, those with, integrators and other industry pros, speaker designers, engineers, etc

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Then you have a stereo receiver, not a simple integrated stereo amp.

The point is that many of these new “integrated amps” are a lot closer to “stereo receivers” and AVR than the original pure analog integrated amps that were considered by many audiophiles to be “separates”.

LAN/Network Streaming
Airplay and others
USB
HDMI
Bluetooth
Room Correction

These are common features in AVR.

So the point is, many of these new “integrated amps” are almost as close to being “separates” as AVR .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That should be an easy project for @TLS Guy who has the skills and all the necessary tools to do it, all he needs just to be 100% is to grab the service manual.

Kid’n me? He wouldn’t touch an AVR with a 10-Ft pole.

 

[highfigh]

The point is that many of these new “integrated amps” are a lot closer to “stereo receivers” and AVR than the original pure analog integrated amps that were considered by many audiophiles to be “separates”.

LAN/Network Streaming
Airplay and others
USB
HDMI
Bluetooth
Room Correction

These are common features in AVR.

So the point is, many of these new “integrated amps” are almost as close to being “separates” as AVR .

And in all of those cases, we think they should be different. I don't know who they ask for requirements, but it doesn't seem to be people in the industry or people who actually use this stuff.

How many times have we seen comments about the lack of inputs on integrated amps? I think, it has been every time someone posts a new one.

 

[highfigh]

Basically you are correct. However it needs a smaller form factor, and at the key of that is a smaller power supply to get the form factor down.

But really, what I hear from friends is that the size of AVRs and AVPs is a resistance to acceptance, and actually big time.

I'm going to resurrect the ghost of Peter Walker again. He realized that the size of equipment WAS a barrier to acceptance. He was right them and right now. So he was the first to produce a low profile preamp, even in the tube era. This was coupled with a power amp that could be, and usually was mounted out of site.

Now, with ubiquitous class D amps, we could easily have small profile AVPs and amps out of site, or more likely active speakers, which will really get the clutter down. More and more is streamed now, and I just can't believe how far the quality of streaming has improved in the last 10 years. It has been meteoric, at least in some arenas. I have to give credit here to the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra. This season they have in my view the highest quality streamed picture on the NET. Their Atmos stream is astonishing, and in an AV room like mine literally transports you to the Philharmonie in Berlin. The only downside is Dolby's fault, wo must have some idiots who need a pink slip. This is their limitation put on the db level of streamed audio. With the huge dynamic range provided by the BPO, this is a bigger issue than ever. If this is what Hollywood want, and the film industry in general, then there needs to be different rules for the classical music and opera arena.
If not, then someone will create a different immersive standard, adding to the chaos, and possible years of lawsuits.

Your example of power amps being mounted out of sight is a good one, but when Peter Walker introduced those, he wasn't aiming his products at a gigantic market of consumers who didn't understand what the equipment did or why it was better, he was catering to educated enthusiasts and hobbyists. Power amps in large venues are closer to the speakers because that minimizes loss of signal but as soon as amplifier manufacturers added lights and power meters, people wanted them even though it makes zero improvement to the sound. Some wanted big power amps in view of everyone. Consumerism, right?

Hollywood- never has one segment of an industry produced so much crap. Remakes of 3rd generation remakes with different people and new special effects, without any improvement in the substance.

I think that improving only the Classical and Opera arenas is closed-minded. It's also a narrow segment of music and you still seem to be forgetting the main goal of all of them is making money, not providing the best to their users. Even BPO needs/wants to make money.

Marketing has caused most of this garbage- while they have been successful by definition, they have done huge disservice to the users of a high percentage of items that have been advertised because they gained sales by getting people to stare at shiny objects.

 

[3db]

To think I started a thread that is going circular.. I'm repeating myself again for the following people who have reading comprehension issues and try and hijack the thread with their useless diatribe forcasting marketing and other such nonsense. I'm interested to see how this unit performs as I've not seen NAD use class D before in an integrated amp. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Please open a separate thread if you think your participation/discussion wanders into the realm of marketing and other such self proclaimed expertise..

 

[Trebdp83]

Whatever some may think of this unit for various reasons, I'm sure some would seriously consider it if it tested well. So, who is going to pick one up and have it tested?

 

[davidscott]

View attachment 64396

To think I started a thread that is going circular.. I'm repeating myself again for the following people who have reading comprehension issues and try and hijack the thread with their useless diatribe forcasting marketing and other such nonsense. I'm interested to see how this unit performs as I've not seen NAD use class D before in an integrated amp. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Please open a separate thread if you think your participation/discussion wanders into the realm of marketing and other such self proclaimed expertise..

As a longtime NAD fan, I'd like to see it reviewed as well. Still own a NAD cd player circa 2015 or so.

 

[MrBoat]

View attachment 64396

To think I started a thread that is going circular.. I'm repeating myself again for the following people who have reading comprehension issues and try and hijack the thread with their useless diatribe forcasting marketing and other such nonsense. I'm interested to see how this unit performs as I've not seen NAD use class D before in an integrated amp. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Please open a separate thread if you think your participation/discussion wanders into the realm of marketing and other such self proclaimed expertise..

Not enough people have done what you ask. By the time they do, it will already be well on it's way to obsolescence. What I end up doing in this instance, is try to find who's class D amp NAD is using. Is it their own, or yet another iteration of one of Icepower's amps? I don't think it's quite expensive enough to use Hypex/Purifi modules. Then I can typically find an indirect source for performance related to the board itself.

I came across a review on XTS amp. Had never really heard of it. But I did recognize the guts of the thing without the reviewer even mentioning it. Was obviously an Icepower setup in a different can. I knew what to expect from there, and if the price was justified.

 

[PENG]

View attachment 64396

I'm interested to see how this unit performs as I've not seen NAD use class D before in an integrated amp. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

I thought you are talking about this specific kind of integrated amps. Otherwise, please know that NAD has been "using class D before in an integrated amp", and quite a few have bench test results available too.

Just visit the NAD website and look under "Integrated amplifiers", in fact most of those listed are class D, and they correctly called them "Hybrid", as the conventional integrated amps are usually described as something like "An integrated amplifier is simply a device that combines the preamplifier and power amplifier into a single component. ". NAD's Hybrid integrated typically include features such as build in DAC and streaming, even room correction such as Dirac Live.

Examples of some class D integrated/Hybrid NAD amps that have been measured:

D3020 - Hypex modules, released 2013 or earlier, measured by Stereophile

D3045 - Hypex modules, measured by HTHF, and also ASR

D7050 - Hypex modules, measured by ASR

M33 - Purifi amp modules, also a streamer, measured by Stereophile and ASR

C3050 - Hypex modules, Stereophile and SoundstageNetwork measured the LE version

I Googled for reviews and found the above models that have measurements available for you. The C 3050 was not measured, but the LE (limited edition) version was measured, again by both Stereophile and ASR, I would expect the results for the C3050 to be the same, as the so called LE version usually is more about aesthetics only.

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NAD C 3050 LE Integrated Amplifier-DAC Measurements
NAD C 3050 LE BluOS streaming integrated amplifier | Stereophile.com

 

[PENG]

I don't think it's quite expensive enough to use Hypex/Purifi modules. Then I can typically find an indirect source for performance related to the board itself.

It uses the Hypex UcD modules. NAD typically tells you which class D modules they use, one just have Google hard sometimes, to find that particular info.

 

[MrBoat]

It uses the Hypex UcD modules. NAD typically tells you which class D modules they use, one just have Google hard sometimes, to find that particular info.

This is what I have noticed as a trend with amps in the last few years. And while some manage to claim some exclusive difference that is manufactured specifically for their products, I find there to be more similarities than differences. First thing that tends to send me looking at the guts, is when I see the weight of the unit and noticing them to be extraordinarily light compared to traditional class A/B designs. Especially when the class D association is not up front in the specs.

 

[3db]

I thought you are talking about this specific kind of integrated amps. Otherwise, please know that NAD has been "using class D before in an integrated amp", and quite a few have bench test results available too.

Just visit the NAD website and look under "Integrated amplifiers", in fact most of those listed are class D, and they correctly called them "Hybrid", as the conventional integrated amps are usually described as something like "An integrated amplifier is simply a device that combines the preamplifier and power amplifier into a single component. ". NAD's Hybrid integrated typically include features such as build in DAC and streaming, even room correction such as Dirac Live.

Examples of some class D integrated/Hybrid NAD amps that have been measured:

D3020 - Hypex modules, released 2013 or earlier, measured by Stereophile

D3045 - Hypex modules, measured by HTHF, and also ASR

D7050 - Hypex modules, measured by ASR

M33 - Purifi amp modules, also a streamer, measured by Stereophile and ASR

C3050 - Hypex modules, Stereophile and SoundstageNetwork measured the LE version

I Googled for reviews and found the above models that have measurements available for you. The C 3050 was not measured, but the LE (limited edition) version was measured, again by both Stereophile and ASR, I would expect the results for the C3050 to be the same, as the so called LE version usually is more about aesthetics only.

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NAD C 3050 LE Integrated Amplifier-DAC Measurements
NAD C 3050 LE BluOS streaming integrated amplifier | Stereophile.com

Thank you for this post PEng. This is far more useful and helpful than your previous post or TLS's post regarding marketing and where it fits into the grand scheme of things. Like HIFINUT mentioned, who knows how marketing departments determine what is viable or not.

 

[PENG]

Thank you for this post PEng. This is far more useful and helpful than your previous post or TLS's post regarding marketing and where it fits into the grand scheme of things. Like HIFINUT mentioned, who knows how marketing departments determine what is viable or not.

Good to know you find it useful, but to be fair and to be clear, I never said anything about marketing!!
I did say "I do agree with him in terms of the fact that aside from the look and the meters, there is nothing remarkable about such an integrated amp. "

So I was clear about I wasn't agreeing with his other points, but just "in terms of.."
In fact I ended my post with the following:

"I think there are going to be people who buy it for the aesthetic reason, and I have no doubt for sound quality it will be as good as any. Just that for the price, there are better values, imo.."

My post has nothing to do with NAD's marketing.., I simply stated my opinions on the feature set of the product and that there to me (my opinion only) that there are better values, including other NAD integrated amps that I actually like a lot. Seems to me you over reacted a little, we are all entitled to our opinions, and so I stated mine, based on my own preference and needs, that's all.

 

[ban25]

There were only 1972 units of the C 3050 LE produced. I was on the list for one at Ahead Stereo in Beverly Hills when it was announced last year, but there were 10 other people in front of me. I saw the regular model, with faux wood grain aluminum chassis, there this last weekend while Black Friday shopping and I got *this* close (pinches fingers) to buying one. But alas, I am very interested in the Rotel RAS-5000, so I have decided to wait for now.

As for the model itself, it's basically a retro-styled NAD C389 with VU meters. I believe I read somewhere that the meters are digital, so if you use it in Pure Direct, the meters won't be functional. Don't quote me on that, but it seems plausible.

 

[TLS Guy]

There were only 1972 units of the C 3050 LE produced. I was on the list for one at Ahead Stereo in Beverly Hills when it was announced last year, but there were 10 other people in front of me. I saw the regular model, with faux wood grain aluminum chassis, there this last weekend while Black Friday shopping and I got *this* close (pinches fingers) to buying one. But alas, I am very interested in the Rotel RAS-5000, so I have decided to wait for now.

As for the model itself, it's basically a retro-styled NAD C389 with VU meters. I believe I read somewhere that the meters are digital, so if you use it in Pure Direct, the meters won't be functional. Don't quote me on that, but it seems plausible.

Are you serious? Less than 2000 produced, or is that just the first run? If that is how low they expect sales to be, then I bet they did not invest a lot in design and doing QA.
If you are correct, then that alone is a good reason to avoid it.

I do worry, that we may all have to settle for a sound bar if this keeps up. The market for superior gear may be continuing to shrink.

 

[ban25]

Are you serious? Less than 2000 produced, or is that just the first run? If that is how low they expect sales to be, then I bet they did not invest a lot in design and doing QA.
If you are correct, then that alone is a good reason to avoid it.

I do worry, that we may all have to settle for a sound bar if this keeps up. The market for superior gear may be continuing to shrink.

Uhh...yes, that's precisely what Limited Edition, or LE means. That model has a maple finish. The standard, non-LE model, is in wide production and available in volume. And again, it's a C389 with a retro-style case.

 

[TLS Guy]

Uhh...yes, that's precisely what Limited Edition, or LE means. That model has a maple finish. The standard, non-LE model, is in wide production and available in volume. And again, it's a C389 with a retro-style case.

Ok, that makes sense. Now I expect you will tell me it is some exotic wood from deep in tha Amazon!

 

[ban25]

Ok, that makes sense. Now I expect you will tell me it is some exotic wood from deep in tha Amazon!

Probably not even real maple but just some laminate...