Any one have this as Pre-Amp?

[BobSD]

Was going to use my reciever as a pre-amp but decided to have two separate systems. This pre-amp was recommended to me, the Arcam C31. The price is not bad compared to the others shown to me by my audio guy. Made in England. Any thoughts?

 

[gus6464]

Was going to use my reciever as a pre-amp but decided to have two separate systems. This pre-amp was recommended to me, the Arcam C31. The price is not bad compared to the others shown to me by my audio guy. Made in England. Any thoughts?

I've owned an Arcam integrated amp and it was a good piece of gear. It was well built and the phono input was pretty good. Are there any specific features you are looking for in a preamp?

 

[audioman00]

I have to say; use anything but the receiver as a pre, if you're into music. IMO you will notice a difference only with music not movies, as the receivers are all kinda spec'd to run for movies.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have to say; use anything but the receiver as a pre, if you're into music. IMO you will notice a difference only with music not movies, as the receivers are all kinda spec'd to run for movies.

Was going to use my reciever as a pre-amp but decided to have two separate systems. This pre-amp was recommended to me, the Arcam C31. The price is not bad compared to the others shown to me by my audio guy. Made in England. Any thoughts?

So you guys are thinking 2 separate systems - 2 speaker systems - 2 different rooms?

I won't argue since I see your points.

However, you don't need 2 speaker systems, 2 audio systems, and 2 different rooms to achieve this.

 

[jostenmeat]

ADTG brings up a good point. My stereo is separate, but if the speakers are going to be combined with HT, id look towards a 2 ch pre with HT bypass. Unity gain. Assuming HT, i wouldnt even get that 2 ch until I was sure the receiver was not good enough.

bob, make sure to budget for treatments. one thing a time, but still.

i see that arcam selling for $1,049 NIB at the gon.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1220288350

 

[audioman00]

Receivers are a cheaper alternative in most cases, opposed to getting a pre that has a dac, and processing. Those suckers are way expensive $$$$ Are those Arcam's multi-ch or 2ch? It doesn't seem to say??

http://www.arcam.co.uk/prod_fmj_C31_intro.cfm

If you are wanting really good hi fi stereo, go with a pre with less digital controls and more analog dials. rotel, adcom, etc.

 

[gus6464]

Arcam is mostly pure analog 2ch gear. They make all-in-one systems and do have surround pre/pros now as well though.

I myself am waiting for the new Musical Fidelity A1 FBP pre-amp which is going to have balanced inputs and outputs, MM/MC phono pre, and USB input for internal DAC. Estimated price will be around the same as the Arcam at $1500.

 

[BobSD]

Well no one said anything neg about the Arcam, thats good! I have 5.1 surround, Definitives. I was thinking of sharing my reciever with my new Martinlogans, but did not take long to figure out this is a true pain. I have to disconnect the front speakers to switch from 5.1, and 2.1 to get no sound from my Def fronts, in stereo mode. I want to use my Def towers for 5.1. My ML speakers are connected to a power amp, and my Def towers are connected to the Reciever which is also being used as my pre-amp. so the only way I can play the ML, must disconnect the Def Front speakers. Do not know if this makes any sense to you guys, but it kinda pisses me off this was not what I planned on. If I had front A&B speakers option on my AVreciever this would have worked. So with this pre amp I will be sharing all inputs with the pre-amp and the AVreciever, that is all analog inputs got to the Pre-amp, and all digital goes to the reciever. This way I can have stereo for serious music listening. One thing I cannot figure out is where to connect this Y to my pre amp to share the Sub woofer. The reciever has a sub woofer pre-out but I cannot figure where to connect the other part of the Y to the Arcam pre-amp. Now I am wondering if it is possible to have a sub woofer with a sterio setup? I feel quite dumb at this point! Any buddy that takes time to read this confused mess, God bless you!!!!

 

[gus6464]

Well no one said anything neg about the Arcam, thats good! I have 5.1 surround, Definitives. I was thinking of sharing my reciever with my new Martinlogans, but did not take long to figure out this is a true pain. I have to disconnect the front speakers to switch from 5.1, and 2.1 to get no sound from my Def fronts, in stereo mode. I want to use my Def towers for 5.1. My ML speakers are connected to a power amp, and my Def towers are connected to the Reciever which is also being used as my pre-amp. so the only way I can play the ML, must disconnect the Def Front speakers. Do not know if this makes any sense to you guys, but it kinda pisses me off this was not what I planned on. If I had front A&B speakers option on my AVreciever this would have worked. So with this pre amp I will be sharing all inputs with the pre-amp and the AVreciever, that is all analog inputs got to the Pre-amp, and all digital goes to the reciever. This way I can have stereo for serious music listening. One thing I cannot figure out is where to connect this Y to my pre amp to share the Sub woofer. The reciever has a sub woofer pre-out but I cannot figure where to connect the other part of the Y to the Arcam pre-amp. Now I am wondering if it is possible to have a sub woofer with a sterio setup? I feel quite dumb at this point! Any buddy that takes time to read this confused mess, God bless you!!!!

What you are looking for is a 2ch preamp which has Home Theater Bypass. I don't think the Arcam has HT bypass but that new Musical Fidelity does.

 

[jostenmeat]

Well no one said anything neg about the Arcam, thats good! I have 5.1 surround, Definitives. I was thinking of sharing my reciever with my new Martinlogans, but did not take long to figure out this is a true pain. I have to disconnect the front speakers to switch from 5.1, and 2.1 to get no sound from my Def fronts, in stereo mode. I want to use my Def towers for 5.1. My ML speakers are connected to a power amp, and my Def towers are connected to the Reciever which is also being used as my pre-amp. so the only way I can play the ML, must disconnect the Def Front speakers. Do not know if this makes any sense to you guys, but it kinda pisses me off this was not what I planned on. If I had front A&B speakers option on my AVreciever this would have worked. So with this pre amp I will be sharing all inputs with the pre-amp and the AVreciever, that is all analog inputs got to the Pre-amp, and all digital goes to the reciever. This way I can have stereo for serious music listening. One thing I cannot figure out is where to connect this Y to my pre amp to share the Sub woofer. The reciever has a sub woofer pre-out but I cannot figure where to connect the other part of the Y to the Arcam pre-amp. Now I am wondering if it is possible to have a sub woofer with a sterio setup? I feel quite dumb at this point! Any buddy that takes time to read this confused mess, God bless you!!!!

What is your receiver? Its hard to believe that any modern receiver does not have a "stereo" setting. If you hit stereo, make sure you are not "matrixing"...

Are you sure you want the sub for stereo? Very few people with your speakers add a sub. Last person I read about doing that set the x-over to 28 hz. Your speakers' -3db pt is 24hz. Firstly, not much music is going down there, and if you add a sub you will have to spend both money and time to get it dialed as far as phase and amplitude, besides x-over point or slope chosen. Receivers aren't designed to handle this; people typically use outboad bass mgmt.

Again, very, very few add a sub with those speakers. I'll also say very few use Arcam with them either. Dunno why.

If you ever DO add 2-ch pre with HT pass, connections are as such:
HT pre/pro front RCA outputs -> Stereo preamp HT bypass input jacks -> stereo preamp outputs -> power amplifier front RCA inputs

You want one that will still pass while off. Unity gain. That way it won't imbue its own sonic signature during HT. Other makers, mostly of tubed variety, include ARC, BAT, Cary, Rogue... and roughly in descending price. They can be extraordinarily expensive. Id be looking at Gus' rec.

 

[WmAx]

I must make this clear: high quality receivers such as modern ones from Yamaha with pre-outs, offer superb measured pre-amp performance that can only be expected to be absolutely transparent to human ears. Besides being perhaps 'prettier', a dedicated pre-amp offers nothing extra of benefit, unless a particular pre-amp has a specific feature you desire. Balanced outputs as offered on some pre-amps are one possible feature one might desire for particular applications. Even then, there is no reason to spend as much as the Arcam; you can get an Emotiva or Adcom pre-amplifier with balanced connection support for far less.

-Chris

 

[BobSD]

Thanks for all the very helpfull input! I have a New Integra7.8, now using, but my Denon 2805 has front A and B speaker options, it is a 100 watts receiver compared to Integra's 130. Yes they both have stereo, and in that mode it will play the sub as well , but in the direct mode only the fronts can be heard. I totally agree there is very little that can be called music going to the sub, but what I love about subs, that it emuates the low vibrations the real intrument makes, like heavy organ, string bass etc. Some electronic music really can get down in the deep low range also I am sure you are awear of that. Chris if you read this, I will check out Emotiva preamps. Thanks. One thing I noticed, and you guys told me ahead of time, that is when you use your receiver as a preamp and playing surround, the volume tends to boost the speakers not connected to the amp at a faster rate.

 

[jostenmeat]

OK, I'll make the point again. I'm not saying adding a sub makes it worse, but for a noobie (and that's me included), there's a +90% chance it will be worse. You have 4x 10" aluminum drivers each powered by 200w ice amps. Those speakers give a lot of subwoofers a decent run for their money. Anyways, for instance, what is your x-over point for your mains? You opt NOT to run them full-range? If you run them full-range AND with a sub to boot for music you are hearing inaccurate reproduction.

What kind of sub do you have?

Take a look at the Velodyne SMS-1 for bass mgmt perhaps. Im still waiting on the SVS unit to come out.

While I never take anything WmAx says about audio lightly, there are a fair share of Integra owners who are looking to add analog pre's. Well, I mean 9.8 owners. If your sources are all digital, then you probably have a real bang-for-buck in your possession. OTOH, its the analog section that people have been disappointed with. 183 posts so far at AVS.

[url="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1002671]2-Channel PreAmp users with Integra 9.8[/url]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well no one said anything neg about the Arcam, thats good! I have 5.1 surround, Definitives. I was thinking of sharing my reciever with my new Martinlogans, but did not take long to figure out this is a true pain. I have to disconnect the front speakers to switch from 5.1, and 2.1 to get no sound from my Def fronts, in stereo mode. I want to use my Def towers for 5.1. My ML speakers are connected to a power amp, and my Def towers are connected to the Reciever which is also being used as my pre-amp. so the only way I can play the ML, must disconnect the Def Front speakers. Do not know if this makes any sense to you guys, but it kinda pisses me off this was not what I planned on.

So you have DefTech Front Left, Center, Right, & Surround Left & Right PLUS MartinLogan Front Left & Right next to your DefTechs?

And that's why you want to use a receiver for the DefTech 5.1, but use a Stereo Preamp + Amp for your ML?

Why? Don't the MLs sound good for Movies?

 

[BobSD]

Good Question Deftechguy, Simply variety, all my souces DVD, Cd and Sat have both stereo and Digital out puts as you would know and all the Stereo run to the ML and Digital to Def. I love my Defs and now my MLs it is quite a trip being able to switch depending on the mood. But with the MLs I can hear the dialogue better. And my Power amp for the ML, is a tube amp and it really softens the sound to my ears especially for music. MLS/guy was wrong about the Butler Amp. This one time.

 

[fmw]

I have to say; use anything but the receiver as a pre, if you're into music. IMO you will notice a difference only with music not movies, as the receivers are all kinda spec'd to run for movies.

I take exactly the opposite position. Modern preamps are transparent whether they are part of a receiver or not. Don't get confused by the EQ and effects available in an A/V receiver. If you defeat them, the preamp in the receiver will sound no different than an outboard model.

The preamps aren't "spec'd" to do anything other than amplify line level enough to drive a power amplifer and provide some switching and control. All the other features of the A/V preamp stage change things considerably. You don't have to use them.

I were to put audioman through a bias controlled listening test, I think his opinons would change.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Good Question Deftechguy, Simply variety, all my souces DVD, Cd and Sat have both stereo and Digital out puts as you would know and all the Stereo run to the ML and Digital to Def. I love my Defs and now my MLs it is quite a trip being able to switch depending on the mood. But with the MLs I can hear the dialogue better. And my Power amp for the ML, is a tube amp and it really softens the sound to my ears especially for music. MLS/guy was wrong about the Butler Amp. This one time.

Sounds like you need 2 separate rooms. One for the DefTech 5.1HT and one for the ML analog stereo music.

I just can't picture it in my head how your system looks now - having the ML towers right next to the DefTech towers. I picture a showroom with A/B speaker switchers for customers to compare the sound.

 

[BobSD]

Come right in folks, we have a special sale going on today!lo Actually the ML are forward of the Def Towers, and I have found that the Definitives easy to locate for a very good sound. The ML, on the other hand can be more time consuming. The room is large and it can easily handle two systems. Seems like the ML need to be closer together then the Def, this helps in setting the two up!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Come right in folks, we have a special sale going on today!lo Actually the ML are forward of the Def Towers, and I have found that the Definitives easy to locate for a very good sound. The ML, on the other hand can be more time consuming. The room is large and it can easily handle two systems. Seems like the ML need to be closer together then the Def, this helps in setting the two up!

You need to take a picture and show us.

So do the DTs and MLs sound very differently?

 

[BobSD]

DefTechGuy, absolutely, like eating a thick juicy steak one day and having a prime roast right off the rotisserie the next day. The MLs because of there massive area for the Mids and highs bring out a clearity in that range, that I hear notes that were hidden before. That is why they are best not used in the surround mode. On the other hand the Definitives better to me in full surround. Maybe I will put it this way, if you are sitting down in the hot spot of the ML, which is very small, and having a cold one this works best, but if your moving around and doing something the Definitves are best choice! The Defs spread out the music much better then the MLs, thats for sure! I am sure you would love and welcome the ML along with your Defs! Let me know when you get'em!lolo