jwenthold99
Full Audioholic
Thanks, I am hoping!
"Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans"
M
MatthewB.
Audioholic General
I worked for a law firm for several years (back in college) as a file clerk and ca tell you from what I have witnessed. Never ever willingly go into a police station without a lawyer present. The police will record every word you say and are experts at malipulating words to your disadvantage. Don't do anything till the police come to your house and arrest you. Then and only then say one phrase. "I ain't saying shyt, till my lawyer is present" say nothing else, EVER!!!!! There are many innocent people in prison because they misspoke on a minor detail deemed no important. If they didn't arrest you when they questioned you, then they have no proof or evidence to arrest you (much less question you). If arrested, say nothing and let your lawyer do all the talking.
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MatthewB.
Audioholic General
I recall many years ago when I rode a motorcycle, I had a couple CD's and a discman with me, when I stopped into a grocery store to get some dinner for the night, well I walked in with my discman and two CD's (because I sure wasn't going to leave them strapped to the motorcycle.) Anyway as I was getting back on my motorcycle a clerk ran after me, telling me I had stolen the CD's (never mind the fact the store didn't sell that artist) so I told them this and she argued with me, so I told her to "F off". Anyway an hour later a cop arrives at my house, I explain the situation and he tells me they have enough evidence to arrest me. I told them fine, "I showed them my CD collection (800 CD's mind you) and told the officer, if he could kindly find the CD's that I allegedly stole and pull them for evidence. I meanwhile would be calling my lawyer and would fully press charges on false imprisonment, kidnapping and assault (by them even touching me). Needless to say they left immediatly and I never saw the police again (or shopped at that store anymore).
M
MatthewB.
Audioholic General
Another example is when I was in college, I was throwing a party and the cops showed up and threatened to confiscate my keg (my personal property) they said, they could because there was one person at the party who was underage (20 and he wasnt even drinking alcohol). So as they are threatening to ticket me for giving alcohol to a minor (the minor btw is begging the police to give him a breathalyer to prove he wasnt drinking) I told the officer if I could call my lawyer. They gave some smart alek remark about a punk kid being able to affiord a lawyer, anyway I called my laywer and explained the situation. The lawyer asked me to hand the phone to the officer. I never saw an officer back peddle so fast in my life and then apologize for disturbing me. They apologized for the inconvienance and left immediatly without my keg and without issuing a single ticket.
mike c
Audioholic Warlord
doneYou are correct, Mike C, please edit out the names.
At this point my frustration is 95% with the department.
And I appreciate the rational feedback. I guess it's the "hurt everyone involved" response trying to defend myself...
jwenthold99
Full Audioholic
That is what I need, a lawyer friend that I can call for things like this. But then again, this is the first time I have ever had any kind of an issue with any law enforcement...
Thanks for the input
H
highfigh
Seriously, I have no life.
Innocent people who end up in prison and stay there are either too clueless to know that an appeal would spring them or have too long a record for a lawyer to think it's possible for them to be freed on appeal.
I agree with the last line but police stations don't record everything that is said in the whole station. The only places they record is in the interrogation rooms. I'm not saying that going in for this is a good idea but as I posted before, we have only seen one side and if the PD was told something to make them more confrontational, it could explain why it was handled as described.
D
dronezero
Audioholic
It sounds to me like this all will blow over as long as you say anything incriminating. Also cops are allowed to lie in the course of an investigation. In fact it is very common that they will lie to you to try and get you to say things. This is an accepted practice.
J
jamie2112
Banned
Most police suck PERIOD......Thanks Matthew for sharing your experiances..
jwenthold99
Full Audioholic
Unfortunately after this experience I am going to have to agree with you. If they are able to lie, screw up your life for several days or weeks, taint your reputation, force you to spend money for representation when you have done absolutely nothing other than having a musician wife that is interested in buying an instrument... and then have absolutely no recourse at the end of it... I am sorry, but there is something seriously screwed up about that. I think that is what is bothering me the most now. I did nothing wrong, I don't have money to spend on defending myself against something I didn't do! Am I wrong to be a little p.o'd about this?
H
highfigh
Seriously, I have no life.
I'd be pretty jaded if I was a cop and that's going some, because the older I get, the more I find that people disappoint me. As a morning show host says, 90% of everything is crap and if you look around, that's not far off.Unfortunately after this experience I am going to have to agree with you. If they are able to lie, screw up your life for several days or weeks, taint your reputation, force you to spend money for representation when you have done absolutely nothing other than having a musician wife that is interested in buying an instrument... and then have absolutely no recourse at the end of it... I am sorry, but there is something seriously screwed up about that. I think that is what is bothering me the most now. I did nothing wrong, I don't have money to spend on defending myself against something I didn't do! Am I wrong to be a little p.o'd about this?
Your reputation wasn't ruined by the police, unless you had a large audience of neighbors whose opinion changed because of this. If you hadn't started this thread, we would never have known, either, and that would further reduce the number who know it happened. The PD didn't get the ball rolling, it's the store. All the PD did was follow a lead. How they chose to follow it, is at issue, though, Unless they actually arrest you, it shouldn't cost you a penny in legal fees. If they continue to come after you, then you reputation and finances are in jeopardy. If they continue to go after you but never arrest or prosecute, you can probably go after the PD for harassment. Being PO'd at the police as a whole is a bit extreme and sounds like '60s rhetoric to me, and I was around then, so it sounds even more like someone who's just going along on the "just a pawn, being kept down by the Man" train. Glendale PD is hardly the same as Harold Breier's department but they do a good job of keeping the peace around here. If I were you, I would be glad it wasn't the MPD at your door.
You can be as PO's as you want but that's not constructive and continuing to post about it here isn't accomplishing anything as far as clearing this up, IMO. As I posted before, I think your time would be better spent by trying to find free legal help if you can't afford it.
Matt34
Moderator
Write up a letter to the Editor of you local paper about the situation too.
In my limited Law Enforcement experience I'd also recommend not saying anything to any LEO without consulting with a lawyer first.
In my limited Law Enforcement experience I'd also recommend not saying anything to any LEO without consulting with a lawyer first.
H
highfigh
Seriously, I have no life.
All of this talking about the situation without direct contact with the PD isn't going to resolve anything. As an example of how much this is accomplishing, I went to a neighborhood watch meeting last year and some of the people got up to complain about a house a few blocks from where I am, where a woman lives with her 5 kids, apparently from 3-5 different guys (I hesitate to call them 'fathers'). The neighbors are always talking over the fence and nattering on about how she has these kids with all of these guys, her loud parties and "I think she's doing and/or selling drugs". After 3-4 of her neighbors said their piece, the chief walked up to the mic and said "You know how I found out about this situation a couple of days ago? Someone forwarded an e-mail and bcc'd me. Have any of you called to complain? No- I looked into this. You all know where I live- have any of you come to me and said ANYTHING about this? No, you haven't. We have a noise ordinance that starts at 10 PM and we have never had a single noise complaint for her. Talking amongst yourselves won't accomplish anything.".
They can't very well arrest you over the phone. They know where you live- if they haven't come to arrest you, they probably won't, unless more evidence comes out against you. If you don't want to call from home, don't but personally, I would call and talk to someone in charge and give them specific details about how you were treated and what was said. No "artistic license", no expanded details, no vague "I don't remember exactly", emotional outbursts or anything like that. If it didn't happen, don't include it. If it happened, it should be but look at it from the outside because that's how hte person you talk with has to look at it if they weren't there. If you walk into the station, they won't sap you over the head and throw you in a cell. This isn't the Deep South in the 1930s. If you want, go with another person so you have a witness. For that matter, make it known that you're not alone and they can hear both sides of the conversation but stop talking about this with people who aren't and shouldn't be involved.
You're asking people you don't know, for advice on a situation that can affect your life, about a situation they weren't involved in. Did you know that if you casually ask a Dr about a medical issue or lawyer about a legal issue, they can bill you for it and if you fight it, they will win because precedent exists? If you can't afford legal help, look for free legal services but do something about this that will do some good instead of just being passive-aggressive.
They can't very well arrest you over the phone. They know where you live- if they haven't come to arrest you, they probably won't, unless more evidence comes out against you. If you don't want to call from home, don't but personally, I would call and talk to someone in charge and give them specific details about how you were treated and what was said. No "artistic license", no expanded details, no vague "I don't remember exactly", emotional outbursts or anything like that. If it didn't happen, don't include it. If it happened, it should be but look at it from the outside because that's how hte person you talk with has to look at it if they weren't there. If you walk into the station, they won't sap you over the head and throw you in a cell. This isn't the Deep South in the 1930s. If you want, go with another person so you have a witness. For that matter, make it known that you're not alone and they can hear both sides of the conversation but stop talking about this with people who aren't and shouldn't be involved.
You're asking people you don't know, for advice on a situation that can affect your life, about a situation they weren't involved in. Did you know that if you casually ask a Dr about a medical issue or lawyer about a legal issue, they can bill you for it and if you fight it, they will win because precedent exists? If you can't afford legal help, look for free legal services but do something about this that will do some good instead of just being passive-aggressive.
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MatthewB.
Audioholic General
highfigh, I like your post but the last part, I would under no situation go to the police or speak with the police unless they come to you first (and again only with a lawyer present). By voluntarily speaking to any LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) you are doing nothing but throwing gas onto a fire (no matter what the circumstance if you are a suspect in any situation (from stealing a pack of gum to murder) never, ever speak to a LEO without a lawyer present. As mentioned officers have the right to lie and manipulate to coerce statements. Chances are the law will do nothing further, because they don't have enough proof and by talking with the officers, you actually make yourself appear guilty by trying to prove your innocence. Just keep quiet and don't say a word.
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markw
Audioholic Overlord
Maybe I'm too cynical, but I agree 100% with this.
Never, ever confuse the law with justice.
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highfigh
Seriously, I have no life.
I generally agree but I posted ".... I think your time would be better spent by trying to find free legal help if you can't afford it." in one of them and "If you can't afford legal help, look for free legal services but do something about this that will do some good instead of just being passive-aggressive." in the other and since both contain references to getting legal help, I can't see what you'd disagree with. While I did recommend contacting the PD, it was to clear this up, not just waltz in and expect it to immediately be all hunky-dory. This is a shoplifting case, not murder and I doubt that anyone who can think clearly will be coerced into admitting guilt in this case but letting it go as is will not clear anyone's name.
I have known the chief here for a long time and he wouldn't condone what was described. That's why I recommended contacting the officer in charge in an attempt to clear this up. AFAIK, Glendale doesn't have a reputation for being physically aggressive but the first thing any cop has to do is take control of the situation and we don't know exactly how it went because only one of us was there. Just about everyone here is gung ho to blame the cops and unless I'm wrong, only the OP and I have ever spoken to a Glendale cop, so the attitude that all cops are bad and they'll lie, cheat, plant evidence and beat people to get an admission is BS.
As I posted before- if it was MKE cops, I would do it differently but here, while they basically have the same job to do, they do it differently. Other than say that he can't afford or doesn't want to spend the money on legal fees and that he made one call for advice, I haven't seen any indication that the OP has talked with anyone, other than us, about this. A letter from a lawyer costs about $50, last time I checked and that could be all it takes to close it.
the grunt
Audioholic
Stores do their own detective work all the time, it’s exactly what I got paid for. Though most of it involved employees and their non employee accomplices it also involved local perpetrators of fraud, shoplifting and professional shoplifting rings and counterfeiters. I can’t count the number of times I presented evidence to a police detective that was followed up on resulting in arrests and convictions. There were also many occasions when the detective would say sorry I just can’t make a case with what I had an he could find.highfigh said:
Ultimately the police are responsible for acting on what the store gave them. As long as the store didn’t lie or fabricate evidence and for whatever reason honestly believed that the OP may have committed retail theft then they acted in good faith. For all we know the store gave several possible names to the police and they talked to several of them or perhaps just keyed on the OP because he was nearby and easy to reach. Now that doesn’t mean that the OP might not be able to get something out of them but unless they did something really stupid it’s not likely.
Since none of us even the OP have any idea what exactly was said between the store and the police deciding here to what degree the store is culpable is pure speculation.
Best comment in this whole thread.markw said:
P.S. This is not a good DIY project.
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highfigh
Seriously, I have no life.
You may have done this kind of thing where you worked but this isn't a big retailer/department store. This is a family-owned music store and they don't have anyone doing store security. For that matter, I haven't talked with anyone who was particularly bright at that store since the management change. Most of the people working on the sale floor have only been there for about a year and a half, at most and some are as annoying as the dweebs at Guitar Center. They have some security cameras and a recorder. They saw someone handling the violin and looked into who was interested in it before, but that doesn't mean someone else just wanted to steal something small enough to conceal and pawn. Whoever took it may have been with others and, as you are well aware, groups often go into a store, distract as many people as possible and then one of them takes whatever they want. I caught lots of people trying to steal things in the stereo store where I worked and in a lot of cases, when they were still there, all it took to keep it from happening was for someone to be aware of it and make that known. We lost a $900 Sony ES CD player one day when I wasn't there and I walked into the room a couple of evenings later to find that the new one was on the floor next to the rack it had been in, partially disconnected and almost ready to go out the door. The likely suspect was looking around the store with a long leather coat folded over his arm.
The OP's problem was in how he was treated by the Police and while I have posted more than once that we don't have the whole story, neither does he. He wasn't there when the cops talked with the people at the store and unless there's a way to find out what was said and done, none of us will know.
jinjuku
Moderator
Which is why cops show up and behave belligerent. Cops aren't out for the truth. They simply want to bag a kill. Regardless of what actual animal they are on the trail of.
I really don't like cops
jinjuku
Moderator
I suggest that you simply say NOTHING to the police. Cordiality and honesty have nothing to do with it. They have a tail and are looking for a donkey. They really don't care which donkey.
You open your mouth and you may end up being that donkey. I wonder how many an innocent man has had the needle of state in his arm due to him being the wrong donkey?
Sorry but 'lets buy the world a coke' and have a sing along with LEO is really bad advice.
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