Any Lawyers in the house?

[highfigh]

Wow, you have some great insite, and info on this store. Based on my wife's experience, I would agree completely with what you have stated.

You want the phone number of the judge? he lives about 2 blocks from me.

The PD didn't exactly go "by the book", either and the department should be informed of this. If you have the names of the officers (or can ID them easily), it's to your advantage to make that known.

To be honest, I would think the Chief has more important things to do than deal with a "he said, she said" shoplifting case, but don't take this personally. I would mask the phone number you use to call them (i.e., don't use your phone) and call the PD non-emergency number, so you can ask some generic, anonymous questions about someone being accused of this, having the store point fingers at you, threats of arrest without valid evidence/warrant, etc.

Also, of the contract had been signed and the store changed ANY of the terms of sale without your permission/signature (or initials), the contract is immediately null and void.

 

[jwenthold99]

Also, of the contract had been signed and the store changed ANY of the terms of sale without your permission/signature (or initials), the contract is immediately null and void.

We actually ended up buying the violin from the *1 (thank goodness! I can't imagine ever doing business with the *2 again!)

 

[highfigh]

Thank you for the feedback... I will thinking about doing this. I am a little wary of contacting the department again based on what has happened so far, as you can imagine. I will be talking to my lawyer again though, see what he thinks about the whole situation.

I also took the time this morning to write up and document yesterdays event's while they were still fresh. After completing that and doing a little research, the following is what has me upset the most:

Through the entire time, they were extremely condescending, rude and unprofessional. They also lied several times:
1. The fact that it would be a felony charge – it wouldn’t, the value of the violin was under $2,500.00,
2. The fact that they were going to arrest me on the spot – they couldn’t, because they did not have jurisdiction
3. The statement that they didn’t need a warrant to enter my house

I'm pretty sure $2500 is a felony. It used to be $1000 but since values have increased over the years, the threshold went up.

The theft occurred in Glendale, so yes, they would have had jurisdiction. What they would have needed to prove you had the violin is the serial number. If the one your wife bought had an altered S/N, it would be very suspicious but if the one stolen has a different number from the one she bought, case closed. The store has a record of the serial number, whether they bought it from the distributor, used or took it in trade (there's a card that needs to be filled out for any trades or outright purchases by a pawn shop or retailer). If hey have no record of this instrument, too bad for them.

Probable cause is, to some degree, at the officer's discretion but if they couldn't see it when they looked in the door, they have no right to enter.

FYI- if the police showed up at my door and made claims that didn't seem right, I would call the department and ask to speak with the officer in charge. I would ask the officers for their ID, ask them to step outside while you make the call and don't freak out during the call. The chance of them getting a search warrant in this case would be nil, especially quickly. It's not a big drug or murder case, so there's really no urgency.

 

[highfigh]

We actually ended up buying the violin from the *1 (thank goodness! I can't imagine ever doing business with the *2 again!)

Careful about naming names. This is a public forum and if they see this when they google their store name, it could be a problem for you.

 

[jwenthold99]

Careful about naming names. This is a public forum and if they see this when they google their store name, it could be a problem for you.

good point

 

[jwenthold99]

I'm pretty sure $2500 is a felony. It used to be $1000 but since values have increased over the years, the threshold went up.

The theft occurred in Glendale, so yes, they would have had jurisdiction. What they would have needed to prove you had the violin is the serial number. If the one your wife bought had an altered S/N, it would be very suspicious but if the one stolen has a different number from the one she bought, case closed. The store has a record of the serial number, whether they bought it from the distributor, used or took it in trade (there's a card that needs to be filled out for any trades or outright purchases by a pawn shop or retailer). If hey have no record of this instrument, too bad for them.

Probable cause is, to some degree, at the officer's discretion but if they couldn't see it when they looked in the door, they have no right to enter.

FYI- if the police showed up at my door and made claims that didn't seem right, I would call the department and ask to speak with the officer in charge. I would ask the officers for their ID, ask them to step outside while you make the call and don't freak out during the call. The chance of them getting a search warrant in this case would be nil, especially quickly. It's not a big drug or murder case, so there's really no urgency.

The violin was $1600 aprox. so it was under the amount

The crime would have been in their jurisdiction, but I don't think they can come into Milwaukee to arrest me?

And once again, I have a really hard time accepting the probable cause argument based on what they had.

Looking back, yes I should have done that, but when they were threatening me it freaked me out, and didn't take the correct measures to protect myself.

And we don't even have the violin yet, they had to order it, and we have not received it yet, so there is no electric violin in our possession.

 

[mike c]

Careful about naming names. This is a public forum and if they see this when they google their store name, it could be a problem for you.

fixed. unless search engines would still recognize the names with the spaces

 

[highfigh]

The violin was $1600 aprox. so it was under the amount

The crime would have been in their jurisdiction, but I don't think they can come into Milwaukee to arrest me?

And once again, I have a really hard time accepting the probable cause argument based on what they had.

Looking back, yes I should have done that, but when they were threatening me it freaked me out, and didn't take the correct measures to protect myself.

And we don't even have the violin yet, they had to order it, and we have not received it yet, so there is no electric violin in our possession.

Every crime victim wants to be able to say "He did it!" and every cop wants to hear that. It makes their job much easier but they still have to follow the correct procedures. If you showed them a signed contract or order, it should have made them back down but they still have to check out all leads but they just need to do it properly.

At this point, it's impossible for us to pass judgment because only one side has been presented, which is the same position the PD was in at the time. If the officers are new, I can see this happening- new cops are like rabid dogs- they don't care what they bite, as long as they get to bite something.

 

[highfigh]

fixed. unless search engines would still recognize the names with the spaces

I wouldn't even put the names in there. For the people who have no idea who they are, it won't matter anyway, and for those of us here who do, it may or may not do any damage to the store. I have known some of the family who owns the store that lost the violin for close to 30 years but not the person who recently became the head of the company (still family, though). This could all be due to some overzealous employees who watch too much CSI and not the owners and because of this possibility, it's not fair to them that their name be dragged through the mud. Someone made an accusation but the PD are the ones who did something about it, in what appears to be an incorrect manner.

Fair is fair but they didn't accuse anyone in a public forum.

 

[jwenthold99]

Every crime victim wants to be able to say "He did it!" and every cop wants to hear that. It makes their job much easier but they still have to follow the correct procedures. If you showed them a signed contract or order, it should have made them back down but they still have to check out all leads but they just need to do it properly.

At this point, it's impossible for us to pass judgment because only one side has been presented, which is the same position the PD was in at the time. If the officers are new, I can see this happening- new cops are like rabid dogs- they don't care what they bite, as long as they get to bite something.

That is fair, and I agree. I would have had no problem with them calling me and asking some questions, as long they stuck with innocent until proven guilty theory. It was their demeanor and tactics that has me "up in arms" if you will. And the thought of having to retain council regarding this makes me ill.

 

[lsiberian]

Some things are better just to let go of. I suggest one is always cordial and honest with the police. Unless you really have something to hide. They are just trying to do their job after all. We all make mistakes.

Don't get into Jurisdiction arguments either. I'm pretty sure that you will always lose that battle. Cops have Unions and they stick together because their lives can depend on it.

 

[jwenthold99]

I wouldn't even put the names in there. For the people who have no idea who they are, it won't matter anyway, and for those of us here who do, it may or may not do any damage to the store. I have known some of the family who owns the store that lost the violin for close to 30 years but not the person who recently became the head of the company (still family, though). This could all be due to some overzealous employees who watch too much CSI and not the owners and because of this possibility, it's not fair to them that their name be dragged through the mud. Someone made an accusation but the PD are the ones who did something about it, in what appears to be an incorrect manner.

Fair is fair but they didn't accuse anyone in a public forum.

You are correct, Mike C, please edit out the names.

At this point my frustration is 95% with the department.

And I appreciate the rational feedback. I guess it's the "hurt everyone involved" response trying to defend myself...

 

[highfigh]

The violin was $1600 aprox. so it was under the amount

The crime would have been in their jurisdiction, but I don't think they can come into Milwaukee to arrest me?

And once again, I have a really hard time accepting the probable cause argument based on what they had.

Looking back, yes I should have done that, but when they were threatening me it freaked me out, and didn't take the correct measures to protect myself.

And we don't even have the violin yet, they had to order it, and we have not received it yet, so there is no electric violin in our possession.

As I said, I don't know the exact amount that constitutes a felony shoplifting charge but if the evidence should point to someone who lives outside of the city where it happened, you bet they can go into MKE to make an arrest, especially if the departments have a reciprocity agreement. At the very least, they may need to make a call to the district where the alleged criminal lives. They can't very well wait around for that person to return- it may never happen and they can't afford to station someone at every point of entry to the city, especially with Kohl's Dept Store and Sears in the same shopping center. Those two stores account for far too much department activity, IMO and it's because of them that the GPD has a substation there. Once the Sears at Fon du Lac & North closed, all hell broke loose at Bayshore.

 

[jwenthold99]

Some things are better just to let go of. I suggest one is always cordial and honest with the police. Unless you really have something to hide. They are just trying to do their job after all. We all make mistakes.

Don't get into Jurisdiction arguments either. I'm pretty sure that you will always lose that battle. Cops have Unions and they stick together because their lives can depend on it.

And that is always the attitude that I have taken, until this happened. I realize they were just trying to do their job, and that their job is dangerous, and I will return respect when respect is given... but when they come at you in such an accusatory manner, with threats and accusations based on purely circumstantial "evidence" you tend to get a little defensive.

 

[jwenthold99]

As I said, I don't know the exact amount that constitutes a felony shoplifting charge but if the evidence should point to someone who lives outside of the city where it happened, you bet they can go into MKE to make an arrest, especially if the departments have a reciprocity agreement. At the very least, they may need to make a call to the district where the alleged criminal lives. They can't very well wait around for that person to return- it may never happen and they can't afford to station someone at every point of entry to the city, especially with Kohl's Dept Store and Sears in the same shopping center. Those two stores account for far too much department activity, IMO and it's because of them that the GPD has a substation there. Once the Sears at Fon du Lac & North closed, all hell broke loose at Bayshore.

I see your point, and I apologize to anyone that sees me as being a little too aggressive toward the situation. It's just a situation that I have never been in before, from my perspective it is ridiculous and completely baseless, and I feel that I was treated unprofessionally. I am normally very quiet and laid back

 

[lsiberian]

And that is always the attitude that I have taken, until this happened. I realize they were just trying to do their job, and that their job is dangerous, and I will return respect when respect is given... but when they come at you in such an accusatory manner, with threats and accusations based on purely circumstantial "evidence" you tend to get a little defensive.

We all have bad days. We had a cop here that threatened to arrest a guy and impound his car when he was trying to get to his dying family member. Kept waving his gun at him too.

One time my friend go searched and harassed by police in a town near ours. I think they were bored. Small towns for you.

My Cousin recently got arrested because someone stole his identity. He was in jail two days because of it.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

So how does she like her new Yamaha electric violin? Can't beat the price.....




Calm down, I am just kidding....

 

[jwenthold99]

So how does she like her new Yamaha electric violin? Can't beat the price.....




Calm down, I am just kidding....

Ha! I don't know, she said the one she ordered is in, but she doesn't even want to pick it up until all this is cleared up! She WAS very excited about it, now i think she is wishing she never would have looked at it...

 

[jwenthold99]

I spoke with a local attorney this afternoon, a random guy from google. Anyway, he said not going in was defiantly the right thing to do, and that I should hire him to harass the detectives, for a mere $1500... or I can wait to see what happens.

I don't really like the options... I guess I am just paranoid about them doing something stupid.

 

[jamie2112]

Never ever go to a police station is my advice.....they can always find something.....it will work out bro I am sure of it.