Another Dumba$$ Question

Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
It doesn't look the part, having a more modern black look. It sure sounds good. 50 wpc.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
Does anyone remember the Circuit City commercial? "50 watts per channel, baby cakes".
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
Borderline vintage, sure.

Seems like a really good choice to use with your 'Scalas. Is that what you're using it with?
No, actually as giddy as I was with the Marantz that I acquired last Winter, I wanted to try the Yamaha with the speakers that @TLS Guy gave me about 10 days ago. So it's in the den. And I'll leave it hooked up. The Marantz is 50 years old. This Yamaha is no spring chicken, but it sounds better and has remote control. It also has 120 v switched plugs on the back, which I sort of need for my sub and bt rcvr. The Marantz has that too though.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Would you consider a Yamaha RX-396 Stereo receiver from 1999 "vintage"?
I think a lot depends on the design rather than age.

That Marantz is vintage and the design shows it. As I said in my PM yesterday, it is not a very well designed unit and by modern standards poor. The power amp section was frankly a mess. Distortion is 0.5% at power, and those old designs of solid sate amps actually increased as the volume went down! It is also discrete unit and could potentially be serviced, if you want to mess with that way over complicated design for no good purpose.

The Yamaha is constructed in a modern fashion, with many ICs including a logic chip. Components are surface mount. This unit would not be serviceable as I am sure the boards, and probably the ICs are NLA. The distortion of this unit is lower then the Marantz by a factor of more then 10. However the design of the Marantz looks as if it could have significant crossover distortion which many transistor designs of that vintage did. That means distortion rises as you turn down the volume!

Early solid state designs on the whole were not very good. This gave solid state gear a bad name at the outset, and gave rise to the "tubes are better" ideation which still is alive and well.

The first transistor amp that was any good and actually better than tubes was the Quad 303. This is not just my opinion, but widely recognized. Not only that it was very reliable. It took others are long time to catch up and produce solid state amps of that power class of comparable quality and many never did.

So vintage really should be applied to gear using older design techniques such as discrete transistors for instance. They should also be of superior quality like good aged wines. Junk old gear is junk and does not deserve the vintage acronym in my view.

I am a little surprised to hear that those old bookshelf speakers I built over 30 years ago revealed the difference. I used VIFA Classic line drivers, which were an extreme budget offering from VIFA. They were very high value drivers. I had not listened those speakers in a long time. However when I connected them to my family room system, I was surprised how good they were. As you know I drove them hard and they produced a very clean accurate high spl. I built them for my youngest daughter, but she has not had a use for them for a long time now. The object was not to build the best bookshelf speakers ever, but see how cheaply I could build a very decent speaker.

On listening to them the other day, I think I passed that challenge. Probably most speakers that size available today are worse than those and many a lot worse.
 
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Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
I think a lot depends on the design rather than age.

That Marantz is vintage and the design shows it. As I said in my PM yesterday, it is not a very well designed unit and by modern standards poor. The power amp section was frankly a mess. Distortion is 0.5% at power, and those old designs of solid sate amps actually increased as the volume went down! It is also discrete unit and could potentially be serviced, if you want to mess with that way over complicated design for no good purpose.

The Yamaha is constructed in a modern fashion, with many ICs including a logic chip. Components are surface mount. This unit would not be serviceable as I am sure the boards, and probably the ICs are NLA. The distortion of this unit is lower then the Marantz by a factor of more then 10. However the design of the Marantz looks as if it could have significant crossover distortion which many transistor designs of that vintage did. That means distortion rises as you turn down the volume!

Early solid state designs on the whole were not very good. This gave solid state gear a bad name at the outset, and gave rise to the "tubes are better" ideation which still is alive and well.

The first transistor amp that was any good and actually better than tubes was the Quad 303. This is not just my opinion, but widely recognized. Not only that it was very reliable. It took others are long time to catch up and produce solid state amps of that power class of comparable quality and many never did.

So vintage really should be applied to gear using older design techniques such as discrete transistors for instance. They should also be of superior quality like good aged wines. Junk old gear is junk and does not deserve the vintage acronym in my view.

I am a little surprised to hear that those old bookshelf speakers I built over 30 years ago revealed the difference. I used VIFA Classic line drivers, which were an extreme budget offering from VIFA. They were very high value drivers. I had not listened those speakers in a long time. However when I connected them to my family room system, I was surprised how good they were. As you know I drove them hard and they produced a very clean accurate high spl. I built them for my youngest daughter, but she has not had a use for them for a long time now. The object was not to build the best bookshelf speakers ever, but see how cheaply I could build a very decent speaker.

On listening to them the other day, I think I passed that challenge. Probably most speakers that size available today are worse than those and many a lot worse.
I really enjoy sitting in that room listening to them.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Things typically change enough in 20 years both with autos and electronics to classify something 20 years or more, vintage. My 1999 Tacoma has an ignition key, and everything else about it feels vintage, compared to just about anything now. I still have my Pioneer integrated from '76. To me, that is antique. I have a 1970 Ford Bronco Sport. It has no power steering or power brakes. It's an antique, as well.

That being said, I would not pay antique prices for vintage gear. Not that I would pay antique prices on antique gear either. 20 year old gear still gets away from being under the thumbs of collectors, for the most part. . .for now.

My Denon AVR is over 20 years old. No HDMI and built like a tank. Looks wise, to me, it's neutral. My Adcom GFA-5500 is over 20 years old and could sort of pass for an antique. Especially when you open the hood and see those giant caps.

Things are modernizing at a rate now that nothing really outwardly discerns itself from old to new and this has gone on for decades by now. But then, I don't really see my '70s gear as being so vintage on the outside, either. Especially with some modern gear that builds vintage style into their amps with VU meters and whatnot.

Vintage, to me is, something that was once high-end/priced, that is now affordable to me. Otherwise, I don't really care to do business with collectors or flippers.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
IIRC, I paid $35 for the Yamaha RX-396. I needed something for that room at the time and bought it off a Marketplace listing. I don't have the remote, but I have a Logitech Harmony programmed for it.
 
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