Another Disgrace from Gestapo USA.

[GO-NAD!]

Actually the British have only had two civil wars since the Norman Conquest of 1066.

The first was the Wars of the Roses, between the houses of Lancaster and York form 1455 to 1485.

The other was the war between the Roundheads and Cavaliers. The former were Cromwell's insurrectionists and the Cavaliers the Kings men, between 1642 and 1641.

Cromwell in many ways was somewhat like Trump. Cromwell was the classic dictator. Cromwell made no provision for his succession until he was near death. He named his son Richard, who farmed in Essex North of the Thames.

On Cromwell's death riders rode at speed to Essex. This whole farce intended when Richard said he had no interest in ruling England, and said he wanted to continue growing cucumbers in Essex! So the cry went up that "the king should enjoy his own."

Charles I, had been executed by Cromwell, and Charles II returned from exile in France. He was known as 'Goodtime Charlie'. That really was the starting gun for the English Renaissance. Cromwell's men were religious puritans and not at all popular after these events. They emigrated to America and are in many ways responsible for making America what it is. This is the root of the puritan streak that has, and continues to shoot through, and bedevil American politics.

"Only" is doing some heavy lifting here. You'd have to discount the many conflicts between and amongst the English, Welsh, Scots and Irish - too many to list in their entirety. One could say it culminated with the Jacobite rebellion, but that would be ignoring the various Irish revolts that didn't truly end until the end of "The Troubles".

 

[GO-NAD!]

After 1776 the British had no control in the US. The US won their war of independence and the war of 1812.

The US did not win the War of 1812. Otherwise, I would most likely be living under the Stars and Stripes right now.

 

[TLS Guy]

"Only" is doing some heavy lifting here. You'd have to discount the many conflicts between and amongst the English, Welsh, Scots and Irish - too many to list in their entirety. One could say it culminated with the Jacobite rebellion, but that would be ignoring the various Irish revolts that didn't truly end until the end of "The Troubles".

None of those rose to the level of civil war, but were regional issues and limited rebellion, especially the Jacobite rebellion.

The wars I cited meet every definition of Civil War with huge casualties on both sides.

 

[TLS Guy]

The US did not win the War of 1812. Otherwise, I would most likely be living under the Stars and Stripes right now.

From the US perspective they won. Of course the Canadians gained. The war of 1812 though was really about ending US aid to the French in the Napoleonic wars. After the battle of Waterloo in 1815 it brought the conflict with North America to rest.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Interesting review of events between the two localities and how a "civil war" is defined. My rom memory has been full for a while, but a bit left in the ram.

Good thing I read and watched Outlander.

 

[GO-NAD!]

None of those rose to the level of civil war, but were regional issues and limited rebellion, especially the Jacobite rebellion.

The wars I cited meet every definition of Civil War with huge casualties on both sides.

While not meeting the strict definition of civil war, these conflicts were among the peoples of these islands, not outside invaders, and had serious impact on the course of the history of the British Iles. My point being that the history of GB is not long periods of peace and stability, interrupted by a a couple of civil wars.

 

[Trell]

After 1776 the British had no control in the US. The US won their war of independence and the war of 1812.

And by that slavery was extended by several decades until the US civil war abolished it, except for prisons that still lasts. A disgrace.

 

[mono-bloc]

So we've had a history lesson from the "All Knowing"' And who really cares, it's not about what happened in the past , It's about what's going to happen in the future.
The American way of America is biggest and best is long gone, The country is ruled by Hick's and over blown Fools, In fact the Beverly Hill Billies are a prime example of the way there going. All we need now is Judge Judy, controlling the senate.

Meanwhile the countries going down the toilet, with mass closures' and bankruptcy's, They've cut there own throats with over priced tariffs, and they don't seem to understand that while there refusing to except imported goods from China, China is quite capable to find and use new retail outlets The Asian and European markets are huge, without any restrictions or over priced tariffs to contend with.

 

[lovinthehd]

So we've had a history lesson from the "All Knowing"' And who really cares, it's not about what happened in the past , It's about what's going to happen in the future.
The American way of America is biggest and best is long gone, The country is ruled by Hick's and over blown Fools, In fact the Beverly Hill Billies are a prime example of the way there going. All we need now is Judge Judy, controlling the senate.

Meanwhile the countries going down the toilet, with mass closures' and bankruptcy's, They've cut there own throats with over priced tariffs, and they don't seem to understand that while there refusing to except imported goods from China, China is quite capable to find and use new retail outlets The Asian and European markets are huge, without any restrictions or over priced tariffs to contend with.

Your illiteracy is often what we deal with here in the US, tho. Did you go to school beyond 6th grade? We have a lot of that sort of thing with the maga folk. Maybe better you're in Australia. You're understanding of hi-fi is already twisted IMO, altho I tend to agree with some of your sentiments about what we have going on here.

 

[mono-bloc]

Did you go to school beyond 6th grade?

No sunshine, I was kicked out of school at 15, to earn a living and that was something like 60 odd years ago.

 

[lovinthehd]

No sunshine, I was kicked out of school at 15, to earn a living and that was something like 60 odd years ago.

Wonder why LOL in any case yeah 60 odd years ago.

 

[Dude#1279435]

So we've had a history lesson from the "All Knowing"' And who really cares, it's not about what happened in the past , It's about what's going to happen in the future.
The American way of America is biggest and best is long gone, The country is ruled by Hick's and over blown Fools, In fact the Beverly Hill Billies are a prime example of the way there going. All we need now is Judge Judy, controlling the senate.

Meanwhile the countries going down the toilet, with mass closures' and bankruptcy's, They've cut there own throats with over priced tariffs, and they don't seem to understand that while there refusing to except imported goods from China, China is quite capable to find and use new retail outlets The Asian and European markets are huge, without any restrictions or over priced tariffs to contend with.

She's gone down the tubes.

 

[highfigh]

Actually the British have only had two civil wars since the Norman Conquest of 1066.

The first was the Wars of the Roses, between the houses of Lancaster and York form 1455 to 1485.

The other was the war between the Roundheads and Cavaliers. The former were Cromwell's insurrectionists and the Cavaliers the Kings men, between 1642 and 1641.

Cromwell in many ways was somewhat like Trump. Cromwell was the classic dictator. Cromwell made no provision for his succession until he was near death. He named his son Richard, who farmed in Essex North of the Thames.

On Cromwell's death riders rode at speed to Essex. This whole farce intended when Richard said he had no interest in ruling England, and said he wanted to continue growing cucumbers in Essex! So the cry went up that "the king should enjoy his own."

Charles I, had been executed by Cromwell, and Charles II returned from exile in France. He was known as 'Goodtime Charlie'. That really was the starting gun for the English Renaissance. Cromwell's men were religious puritans and not at all popular after these events. They emigrated to America and are in many ways responsible for making America what it is. This is the root of the puritan streak that has, and continues to shoot through, and bedevil American politics.

"Only" two civil wars. And how well did England treat Scotland & Ireland thoughout history and what is your impression of the way Native people were treated in Canada? How well did they treat people in the rest of the British Empire? Now, tell me that the English Parlaimentarian government government was a good thing for everyone in the domain. The first settlements in the Colonies were operated mainly by the Crown, not private interests and the population was a mix of loyalists and those who were in favor of replacing Charles I, but they didn't want to stay, or had been exiled. The resistance to the restrictions and taxation by the Crown, used in part to fund its wars, didn't sit well with them and they could do nothing about it. It wasn't just the Stamp Act, it was the cumulative effect during the 18th century that made them revolt- don't assume Cromwell had much to do with it.

BTW- if you're Protestant, you have that in common with the Puritans. Would you want an official religion in the US?

You have called the Constitution 'rigid' more than once- how so? What would you change? I have asked before and you didn't answer. Be specific. Remember- the Bill of Rights doesn't tell us what we can do, it outlines what the government CAN'T do.

 

[highfigh]

After 1776 the British had no control in the US. The US won their war of independence and the war of 1812.

Why would the Colonists want British rule after so much forceful bad treatment?

The Jacobite rebellion was Scotland fighting for independence- that's not a civil war?

 

[highfigh]

France is on its 5th Republic, ie:5th constitution, having had a series of constitutional crises over the last 200+ years since its revolution (and a brief stint as a constitutional monarchy)... it might be time for a revamp in the US (!)

although the US system did have periodic amendments....

But the reason for revolution in the USA vs revolution in France were very very different.

The USA was conservatives unhappy with the management and taxation regime - so the constitution ended up (relatively) conservative... (as in: keep the status quo, don't change too much, the literal meaning of conservative)

The French revolution was more of a scrap it all and restart, build a new paradigm - which then had to be adjusted more substantively (although USA and France were clearly checking out each others homework!) - generating complete renewals 5 times over...

How dire will it need to get for the USA citizenry to get behind a completely new constitution?
Getting people behind even a constitutional amendment, would be a long hard trek... let alone a new constitution. Last major update/amendment was voting age in 1971... more than 50 years ago! - and that was a result of debates that kicked off in WWII... it really took it 30 years to get passed.

I expect there will be "blood in the streets" before this is sorted out.

What would you change in the Constitution?

 

[TLS Guy]

What would you change in the Constitution?

I would just scrap it. All Constitutions become a problem over time and are hard to update. So the best course is not to have one!

 

[Mr._Clark]

The administration is clearly trying to establish a precedent whereby they can, with impunity, deport almost anyone for any reason, then claim the government is powerless to do anything if a deportation violates the law.

The 4th Circuit is not happy (to put it mildly) with the administration. The judge who wrote the opinion was appointed by Reagan.

These are not loony left judges.

The administration can continue to blast the American people with huge loads of bullsh*t, but that will not change the facts or the law.

From the opinion:

>>>If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?∗ And what assurance shall there be that the Executive will not train its broad discretionary powers upon its political enemies? The threat, even if not the actuality, would always be present, and the Executive’s obligation to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed” would lose its meaning. U.S. CONST. art. II, § 3; see also id. art. II, § 1, cl. 8.

Today, both the United States and the El Salvadoran governments disclaim any authority and/or responsibility to return Abrego Garcia. See President Trump Participates in a Bilateral Meeting with the President of El Salvador, WHITE HOUSE (Apr. 14, 2025). We are told that neither government has the power to act. The result will be to leave matters generally and Abrego Garcia specifically in an interminable limbo without recourse to law of any sort. . . .

The Executive may succeed for a time in weakening the courts, but over time history will script the tragic gap between what was and all that might have been, and law in time will sign its epitaph. . . .

In sum, and for the reasons foregoing, we deny the motion for the stay pending appeal and the writ of mandamus in this case. It is so ordered.<<< (emphasis added)

https://thehill.com/homenews/5254406-abrego-garcia-appeals-court-order/

The court clearly recognizes exactly what the administration is attempting to do.

The administration could easily takes steps to return Garcia. The feigned helplessness (wink, wink) is just dumb. The fact that the administration is choosing instead to fight the courts tooth and nail makes it crystal clear that the administration wants to establish a way to deport anyone, anytime, for any reason.

There are numerous laws on the books that the administration can use to deport people. However, the Constitution always requires due process.

 

[TLS Guy]

The 4th Circuit is not happy (to put it mildly) with the administration. The judge who wrote the opinion was appointed by Reagan.

These are not loony left judges.

The administration can continue to blast the American people with huge loads of bullsh*t, but that will not change the facts or the law.

From the opinion:

>>>If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?∗ And what assurance shall there be that the Executive will not train its broad discretionary powers upon its political enemies? The threat, even if not the actuality, would always be present, and the Executive’s obligation to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed” would lose its meaning. U.S. CONST. art. II, § 3; see also id. art. II, § 1, cl. 8.

Today, both the United States and the El Salvadoran governments disclaim any authority and/or responsibility to return Abrego Garcia. See President Trump Participates in a Bilateral Meeting with the President of El Salvador, WHITE HOUSE (Apr. 14, 2025). We are told that neither government has the power to act. The result will be to leave matters generally and Abrego Garcia specifically in an interminable limbo without recourse to law of any sort. . . .

The Executive may succeed for a time in weakening the courts, but over time history will script the tragic gap between what was and all that might have been, and law in time will sign its epitaph. . . .

In sum, and for the reasons foregoing, we deny the motion for the stay pending appeal and the writ of mandamus in this case. It is so ordered.<<< (emphasis added)

https://thehill.com/homenews/5254406-abrego-garcia-appeals-court-order/

The court clearly recognizes exactly what the administration is attempting to do.

The administration could easily takes steps to return Garcia. The feigned helplessness (wink, wink) is just dumb. The fact that the administration is choosing instead to fight the courts tooth and nail makes it crystal clear that the administration wants to establish a way to deport anyone, anytime, for any reason.

There are numerous laws on the books that the administration can use to deport people. However, the Constitution always requires due process.

Thank you for that. This administration has gone into full fascist mode quicker and deeper then I ever imagined. The US is descending to the level of Nazi Germany by the day and hour. Trump's news conference in the oval office today was totally out of line, and frankly something that should scare us all.

US citizens need to rise up fast. I think a general strike would be totally in order, and shut the country down, until the evil clown is removed. Mass demonstrations from coast to coast need to be the order of the day.

If Congress won't act, then the citizenry need to.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Where is the military about lawful orders? How hard is it to understand what happened and the orders to ship to El Salvador was an illegal order..

 

[Dude#1279435]

I would just scrap it. All Constitutions become a problem over time and are hard to update. So the best course is not to have one!

Isn't it a guide for law though?