Annoying Audio Terms

[JohnOAS]

Does anyone else get annoyed by meaningless touchy feely terms used by sales staff and pretentious audiophiles?

Some of these have semi-intuitive meanings (like accurate), but tend to get used out of, or entirely without, context. I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions, definitions and of course, your own favourite annoying terms/definitions.

bright - I know many people accept this as meaning an over-emphasisin the mid to top end, but which is it really?

dark - I might use this to describe a song, and would think that you'd maybe catch my drift, but WTF is a dark amp gonna do for me?

delicate - I know I'm not supposed to poke my speaker cones with a screwdriver, what else is delicate about my speakers?

grainy - I know what a grainy photo is, but how about grainy sound? Something recorded with an 8 bit ADC perhaps?

harsh - Distorted I can understand, harsh seems a little wishy washy to me.

mellow - This is a mood as far as I'm concerned. Or a word used by one tool to help relieve another tool of some extra cash.

punchy - How do I measure this in my scope, is it an impulse response thing?

silky - What does my amp need to do to the waveform to make my favourite Van Halen track more "silky". Seriously, "silky" ? Sheesh.

warm - I particularly hate this one, it's so goddamm new-age. Please educate me if there's a good, usable definition.

zippy - Punchy, but in a more annoying way perhaps?

That'll do for now. Let 'em rip people.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Does anyone else get annoyed by meaningless touchy feely terms used by sales staff and pretentious audiophiles?

Phew! I sure am glad I'm not a salesman or pretentious audiophile.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder about ordinary people describing sound in the only way that feels natural to them. That's a shame.

Regards

 

[Sheep]

I don't like these people...


"I upgraded my power cables and I heard a significant difference!"

Or

"Expensive cables with batteries in them really make or break a sound system."


I'm glad I have not met one in person, or I would say this...

"What did the 5 fingers say to the face? SLAP!"



SheepStar

 

[JohnOAS]

Phew! I sure am glad I'm not a salesman or pretentious audiophile.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder about ordinary people describing sound in the only way that feels natural to them. That's a shame.

I don't know why it's a shame. And it is such a warm, delicate chip with a very wide soundstage, don't you think?

If it were just "normal people" describing sound it wouldn't be such a big deal. Unfortunately, I think the majority of them are sales people or other would-be experts who are trying to baffle potential customers/friends by making them feel inferior if they can't hear the "crisper autumnal tones" of the special set of speakers they're listening to.

If those that should be able to use proper terms (people in the industry) did so, perhaps "ordinary people" wouldn't be repeating unhelpful phrases with no clear meaning. At the very least the sales staff could ask people if they understood the terms.

I've gone on numerous shopping expeditions (at their request) with family members, friends and colleagues, to help them with their shopping mission. I generally don't try to pick fights with the sales staff in front of anyone, regardless of how much they might deserve it. It's not an ego thing, I just abhor seeing people exploited or deliberately misled. In my experience, 9 times out of 10 it's got nothing to do with someone describing sound in the only way they know how, but a lot to do with quoting a review from "overpriced hardware monthly" magazine because of a lack of any knowledge or opinion of their own, or simply repeating something they heard someone else say.

 

[Buckle-meister]

If it were just "normal people" describing sound it wouldn't be such a big deal.

If it were 'just' normal people, it shouldn't be any deal.

Unfortunately, I think the majority of them are sales people or other would-be experts who are trying to baffle potential customers/friends by making them feel inferior if they can't hear the "crisper autumnal tones" of the special set of speakers they're listening to.

If those that should be able to use proper terms (people in the industry) did so, perhaps "ordinary people" wouldn't be repeating unhelpful phrases with no clear meaning. At the very least the sales staff could ask people if they understood the terms.

I've gone on numerous shopping expeditions (at their request) with family members, friends and colleagues, to help them with their shopping mission. I generally don't try to pick fights with the sales staff in front of anyone, regardless of how much they might deserve it. It's not an ego thing, I just abhor seeing people exploited or deliberately misled. In my experience, 9 times out of 10 it's got nothing to do with someone describing sound in the only way they know how, but a lot to do with quoting a review from "overpriced hardware monthly" magazine because of a lack of any knowledge or opinion of their own, or simply repeating something they heard someone else say.

I agree, but I think it is a little naive to expect a saleman to behave otherwise. It goes without saying that it is their job to sell you their product in any way they can. It's nice to come across an audio shop which actually employs staff who know what they are talking about, but in my experiance, this is very, very rare, and even then, they occasionally BS you. Or try to.

Regards

 

[The Dukester]

I'll tell you what's annoying

Hey, John OAS I know this is the steam vent, but how about watching your language. THAT really annoys me. Yo, mods...are you asleep!?

 

[jaxvon]

Hey, John OAS I know this is the steam vent, but how about watching your language. THAT really annoys me. Yo, mods...are you asleep!?

?? I didn't see anything offensive...

 

[The Dukester]

Try reading the "dark" and "warm" descriptions again. They use language that is offensive to me. This is supposed to be a family friendly site.

 

[JohnOAS]

Warning - (PG) rated post ahead

Hey, John OAS I know this is the steam vent, but how about watching your language. THAT really annoys me. Yo, mods...are you asleep!?

Hmm, I'll admit that "WTF", if expanded might offend some, which is why I left it as a TLA. You'll either understand it and the emotion is was intended to convey, (hopefully) get over it, or skip it and still get the point. BTW, you missed "BS" in Buckle-Meister's post straight after.

"Goddamm" (bad spelling to boot!) could also admittedly offend some, I'm guessing based on religious sensibilities. I believe that "damn" is a shortened version of the one I used anyway, and both convey exactly the same meaning. Common usage has more or less neutered the "god" prefix, although I guess that in itself would be a point of contention for some. There are so many different flavours of religion out there, it's nigh-on impossible to not do something to offend one of them somehow.

I find it odd that people are offended more by words than the ideas they convey. I could write down every "swear word" I can think of in a list and post it here (but I won't). Really, how offensive would that be? It's just a string of letters forming words, completely harmless on their own. If I direct the same obscenities at someone or something, they are given context, and have much more power to offend.

This may be, and quite probably is, a family friendly site, but it is the internet. If my language offends you, I honestly wonder how you get by from day to day on the net. I will apologise for offending you, it certainly wasn't intentional although I must admit I am confused about what it is you found offensive.

I'd much rather have a debate about the underlying ideas than a particular word used to convey or incite and emotive state. To each his own.

 

[markw]

Every "clique" has it's own little language or jargon...

...that's meant for inter clique communication. You've just stumbled on some audio jargon. Every "clique" has jargon. To be a member and communicate with 'em. it behooves youi to learn it.

Ever get involved with some medical types? they have some truly dark acronyms meant for purely their own "inter-clique" use. L.O.L. N.A,D., C.T. D, "to box", and the list goes on...

 

[Buckle-meister]

BTW, you missed "BS" in Buckle-Meister's post straight after.

Yes...and thank you for pointing that out JohnOAS.

You are correct though, and I apologise for using it. I did think about its use before posting, as it was the first occasion for me to have done so. It will now be the last.

Regards

 

[JohnOAS]

...that's meant for inter clique communication. You've just stumbled on some audio jargon. Every "clique" has jargon. To be a member and communicate with 'em. it behooves youi to learn it.

Ever get involved with some medical types? they have some truly dark acronyms meant for purely their own "inter-clique" use. L.O.L. N.A,D., C.T. D, "to box", and the list goes on...

Yup, I grew up with electronics, studied physics, worked in lasers/optocelectronics for some time, then a fair bit of IT mixed in with electronics, and am now working in the law enforcement arena. The same acronym often has several different meanings in different arena's. I have to remember who I'm talking to in order to put their message into context.

I don't mind learning the jargon, in fact I quite enjoy it. I'd just like to think that there was some degree of conformance within the particular clique as to what a term meant. Unfortunately, in the audio arena, often I think the only meaning for some terms is. 'Hey look at me, aren't I cool to be using big phrases like "musicality" and "sound stage", if you don't understand how crisp my green highlighter makes my CD's sound, then you're obviously deaf, and uncool to boot.'

That, or it's a marketing tool used to embarrass people into agreeing with a salesman who obviously knows way more than they do, in order to sell something. I've nothing against people making a buck, and often the high end gear <i>is</i> better than the other stuff, I just wish the sales staff would be a little more honest about why.

 

[mustang_steve]

I always thought of warm as more emphasis on midrange (rolloffs "early" in the bass and treble areas, early is relative).

Yeah, there are too many silly terms.

I'd really like it if frequency response charts were easily availible for speakers...but that would make it a little too easy to compare...so I doubt anyone would do that. Plus there ware ways to even cheat on that....

 

[Mudcat]

WTF, didn't the **********'s (me included) here post a G-D list of these terms and their MFin definitions several F-in months ago? I know the archives are rather $#1++y but you should still be able to find them. If not, GFY.

But hey, that's just me

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5293

 

[Sheep]

WTF, didn't the **********'s (me included) here post a G-D list of these terms and their MFin definitions several F-in months ago? I know the archives are rather $#1++y but you should still be able to find them. If not, GFY.

But hey, that's just me

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5293

Priceless!


Keep up the good work.

SheepStar

 

[brian32672]

WTF, didn't the **********'s (me included) here post a G-D list of these terms and their MFin definitions several F-in months ago? I know the archives are rather $#1++y but you should still be able to find them. If not, GFY.

But hey, that's just me

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5293

Here is the last one I recall.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13543

You must realize Duke, that the acronyms are used in just about every area on the net that has a forum. So WTF, FY, GFY, etc... You should not take personally, now the religous tone is a bit different. But I am not one to talk....

As far as the original post. I think that the (most) words you are describing does in some ways help the consumer. I mean, you know what they are supposed to mean. So a salesman should say "I don't really know how other to describe bright" Or they should go with the meaning and letting the consumer know, what it means. Geesh, I mean heck, I see the word here on about every 6th or 7th thread I read. If they annoy you, then like you said to Duke. " (hopefully) get over it, or skip it "

Personally I think that there are other things that annoy me at the moment. Like Hurricanes suck. And being without power annoys me, also forking out money to repair the windows, (so my precious "bright" speakers are not open to the elements)

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

JohnOAS,
I'm in complete agreement with you in regards to those terms. They are meaningless. I've been struggling with those terms since day one here and don't feel I understand them anymore now than I did back at the beginning of the year.

I'm thinking that the only way to actually "learn" what these terms mean is to go with one our fellow audioholics to a listening session where they can actually point out each term in a real-life experience of speakers and receivers.

Until then, I still have no idea what "bright" or "warm" are supposed to sound like.

 

[ironlung]

Slippery slope

Try reading the "dark" and "warm" descriptions again. They use language that is offensive to me. This is supposed to be a family friendly site.

Holy cow man what kind of world would this be if we accommodate every whim of an overzealous born again with a point to prove. Buckle and JohnOAS shame on you for apologizing.

Don't be so sensitive.

 

[soundsfine]

The whole thing is kind of like wine tasting... very subjective, with similar descriptive terms. Almost everyone can distinguish "good" from "very bad", but within the "good" are many subtle differences subject to personal preference.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Buckle and JohnOAS shame on you for apologizing. Don't be so sensitive.

On the contrary; I'd rather be humble, apologise, and remain friends with someone than be stubborn, not apologise, and fall out. And after all, there really is no excuse for swearing.

Ah, but you knew that, didn't you young Ironlung?

Regards