An impressive budget bookshelf system if anyone is interested...

[ImcLoud]

So my brother put together a bookshelf system for a small room in his house that he uses for work {drafting table, couch, round stool, not much in the room at all, its only 10X12}, he started with an apa150 and a pair of polk rti a3's, he used it for a few weeks and told me it sounded a little harsh and edgy (he listens to classical music while he works in there). So I told him to start over.

He like me is very fond of the pure i20 dock so that is his source with his phone, so any integrated or non amp will do... He really liked the sound of my Tripath class t amps, I have a few Toppings, and to me they are the best sounding amps I own {I love my xpa2's but they are in a different class and power}... So he ordered a TP60 which I have heard and is a very capable unit...

The amp came and he tried a few sets of bookshelfs we have hanging around between us, but for some reason he seems to be getting more and more unhappy by the pair... A pair of cbm170s is about the best he can get and he tried some Kefs, Sierra 1's, 3 sets of Polks, wD diamond 10.1's, jbl studios, truth studios, and more, I was truthfully sick about hearing how he couldn't get good sound in his stupid little room....

Then I thought about a set of books I heard, Epos bookshelfs a friend of ours owns, my first thought was "how much are these" they have a cool little tool for removing the grills and look very audiophiley with the grills off... But the biggest thing that drew me to was their ultra warm sound, very laid back BUT still reproducing everything that was there.. (I would love for one of the graph geeks to look at measurements for these, because what ever they do, its perfect for classical music)...

I told him about them and he bought a pair for 50% off ($400), he called me the day they came, we have been working on a prints for a 38K sq foot building for a month now, and if he is spending half as much time in his drafting room as I, in my office, he is listening way too much... He was amazed at the sound, he called them perfect (which is rare for him, hes never happy when he is working, which is why I figured he kept complaining about the sound in his "work" room)...

I took a ride over to give a listen and with that little amp and them speakers, they are impressive $600 between the two and I don't think you can do much better for critical listening... Warm, defined, I have to imagine they measure pretty flat, we listened to a few different songs while going over duct sizing and BTU loss rates for the building. I was impressed with the system, it plays pretty loud (especially for that room) and seems to need nothing, I like adding a subwoofer to everything, but with his small room I think it will be too much... In a larger room I think crossing the bookshelfs to a set of fast sealed subs would be nice, but for a small system, its good...

EPOS EPIC 2 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

Amazon.com: Topping TP60 Tripath Class T TA2022 Digital Amplifier: Electronics

May be just what someone else is looking for so I figured I would share...

About 2 months ago I had a chance to hear an XPR2 (600x2) amplifier powering a set of Epos towers {I think it was encore 50 or Entire 50 something 50) I was more interested in hearing the amp but the speakers were mighty impressive, and LOUD, they played whitney I"I will always love you" and when she does the whole "AND IIIII WILL ALWAYS LOOOOOVE YOU" belt, it was insane, they had the preamp (I think it was an Avid) turned ALL THE WAY UP and no clipping no distortion just an insane amount of sound, very strong.. The spekers were like $12K but still pretty impressive...

 

[Ponzio]

I’m very interested

I recently listened to a pair of used Epos M12.2 at a local shop and was highly impressed, even if the bottom end was a bit weak. I figured a good sub would remedy that issue splendidly. I ended up buying a pair of KEF LS50’s instead. It had a way bigger soundstage and the imaging was fantastic but the Epos could match them point for point when it came to neutrality, dynamics and detail. Now I’m ready to complete my 3rd system for an upstairs sound/HT room and I’ve been on the hunt for the M12.2’s or some Triangle Titus 202’s on the used market.

My question is, have you heard the M12.2’s and how do the Epic 2’s compare? At that price it’s a no-brainer with a fresh warranty to sweeten the deal.

 

[ImcLoud]

I havent heard the m12.2s, but I can tell you the bass response the epic 2s have is surprising and anything but lacking...

 

[Ponzio]

Boy I’m going to be in a world of hurt with the missus. I just purchased 2 subs I the last 5 days, notwithstanding the other goodies in the last year or two (Focal 1027Be’s & associated center & surrounds, an Oppo BDP-105, a pair of KEF LS50’s with a KEF R200c center, stands, etc.).

Well I know what I have to do. Blame you. You guys are just a bad influence.

 

[ImcLoud]

It is addicting, I love little music systems all over the house, its like each has its own little attitude. I setup a chair and a lamp next to a bookshelf system, and I can sit there and read a book or do paperwork while listening to my ipod on shuffle...

I like the simplicity of an int. amplifier with an ipod dock and a set of bookshelfs, the Topping amps work VERY well for accomplishing this and they are very affordable.. I always believed the more direct audio path the better, and you don't get much more direct than that... Keep it simple and it will sound clean, as soon as you start jumbling it up with video circuits and balancing knobs the sound gets a little dirtier and dirtier... I don't know if it their design or the class t tripath stuff, but them toppings in my oppinion are some of the best sounding amps on the market, (as long as you have efficient speakers of course}...

After hearing my brothers system a little longer today I ordered a set of the epic 2s also...

 

[Ponzio]

Again, thanks ImcLoud.

These speakers have been on mind since I first read your post yesterday and as you can see by the time stamp of my reply I decided to take the plunge early this morning. I had this nightmare that they would revert to their MSRP and I would be kicking myself on passing up on this great deal. Ever since I demoed the used M12.2’s I’ve been actively scouring various web sites to get a better price than the quoted $700 from the local dealer. The closest I came was from a guy who had a pair in Brooklyn for $425 shipped, 3 weeks ago and they were already sold; I was his backup if the original buyer didn’t come thru on 8/25/13. You have to respect a man who gives his word to someone like he did, so I didn’t push him on it. Yesterday morning he notified me that the other buyer completed the transaction. The M12.2’s rarely show up in the market place and the prices I’ve seen can be anywhere from $425 to $650, so I was a bit disappointed to say the least. Imagine my surprise then when I see your post.

Initially I’m going to get some grief, and then I’ll remind her that she liked the M12.2’s too and at this price point for the latest & greatest I would be a fool to pass up on them. As much as we all complain about our spouses … I’ve already served a 33 year stretch on a lifetime sentence … one thing I will say about Frau Veets is she’s completely defenseless against logic … she’s was a math major in college, who’s currently a systems analyst for a financial firm … and she has a good ear; she can’t deny the facts and doesn’t get hysterical like I’ve seen/heard some wives do when they can’t get their way in an argument.

 

[ImcLoud]

Congrats, That is a good price, and I spoke to my "salesman/friend" at Music direct yesterday when I ordered mine and specifically asked him if he ever heard the m12.2, he said he used to won a pair!!! So of course the conversation shifted to how they compare, and his exact words were "night and day" he said it was like they heard all of his complaints about the m12s and built the epic2, he continued to say the m12s were tough to place and lacked in the lower end, but raved about their mid and high end "purity", he said the epic 2s have a strong bottom end with no boomy-ness, he said the highs are much more "livable" then the other epos speakers, but the most impressive thing about these books is that they are very forgiving to room and placement conditions...

For my brother to be happy with them in his work room, they have to be good... I compared them to one of my favorite bookshelfs which is the cbm170se, and they win, BUT keep in mind they are normally more than twice the cost. They obviously win with finish {its vinyl but done very well}, even if they were covered in outdoor carpet that audiophile grille and tool show more attention to detail then most available for 3 times the cost...

Anyway, I can't wait to get my set... I am picky when it comes to highs, I think I am over sensitive to bright speakers because they start to hurt me after a while, fatigue sets in very fast, and I seem to prefer soft tweeters to hard and horn.... We listened to my brothers set for a while while working and I could have sat there forever, no fatigue, no constantly adjusting the volume down after a handful of songs...

My wife is pretty easy to deal with too, she knows I love my speakers, and doesn't worry about the price issues much but the aesthetics have to be pleasing.. If I ever came home with a set of Cerwin vega 215's she would have a stroke no matter how cheap or how good they sound ,but a small good looking bookshelf tucked into a corner somwhere she has no problem with...

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

10x12 room and budget bookshelf system for me is a bit different system:
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR414 5.1 Home Theater 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver | Accessories4less
Bookshelves: Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers: Electronics
Sub: Amazon.com: Pioneer SW-8MK2 Andrew Jones Designed 100-Watt Powered Subwoofer: Electronics

Total: $400

With a bit of creative shopping (pawn shops/cl) price of avr can be brought down to $100 making the total system price around $300
I challenge anyone to come up with better sounding system for same or smaller budget

p.s: Sorry for a bit of thread hijack Imc

 

[Ponzio]

Congrats, That is a good price, and I spoke to my "salesman/friend" at Music direct yesterday when I ordered mine and specifically asked him if he ever heard the m12.2, he said he used to won a pair!!! So of course the conversation shifted to how they compare, and his exact words were "night and day" he said it was like they heard all of his complaints about the m12s and built the epic2, he continued to say the m12s were tough to place and lacked in the lower end, but raved about their mid and high end "purity", he said the epic 2s have a strong bottom end with no boomy-ness, he said the highs are much more "livable" then the other epos speakers, but the most impressive thing about these books is that they are very forgiving to room and placement conditions...

Anyway, I can't wait to get my set... I am picky when it comes to highs, I think I am over sensitive to bright speakers because they start to hurt me after a while, fatigue sets in very fast, and I seem to prefer soft tweeters to hard and horn.... We listened to my brothers set for a while while working and I could have sat there forever, no fatigue, no constantly adjusting the volume down after a handful of songs...

Wow that's great news. The 12.2's were not so much bright as they were "lively" and I could see where after a couple of hours you might want to give it a rest. Also glad to hear about the "room & placement conditions" issue was resolved since the demo setup I heard was ideally set to enhance bookshelf speakers; acoustic panels, small 8'x10' room with the speakers on stands 6' apart. The only criteria I'll be matching are the stands. It's a 15'x15' room but 4 feet after you enter the room a 11'x3' closet juts out into the main space on one side, making for some tough placement since there are only 2 walls realistically that I can place the speakers against.

 

[Ponzio]

10x12 room and budget bookshelf system for me is a bit different system:
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR414 5.1 Home Theater 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver | Accessories4less
Bookshelves: Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers: Electronics
Sub: Amazon.com: Pioneer SW-8MK2 Andrew Jones Designed 100-Watt Powered Subwoofer: Electronics

Total: $400

With a bit of creative shopping (pawn shops/cl) price of avr can be brought down to $100 making the total system price around $300
I challenge anyone to come up with better sounding system for same or smaller budget

p.s: Sorry for a bit of thread hijack Imc

With all due respect, I went out yesterday to Best Buy to demo the Pioneer Andrew Jones line, after I lost my bid on the Epos 121.2's and I was totally underwhelmed. It was all mid-range without any clarity. The tweeter was so over-shadowed by the mid-range as to be close to non-existent and the bass seemed to be hitching along for the ride. In their defense I will say that they were just placed on the bottom shelf, 3 to 4 feet apart in the general sales area instead of the Magnolia showroom. It was powered by a low-end 50w Denon, combined with general cacophony on the sales floor contributed to my impression. But I made it a point of literally placing my head about a foot in front of one of the speakers, with the tweeter at ear level, and still was not impressed. I would take my existing Polk Monitor 50's, that I purchased used for $150, in a heartbeat vs. the Pioneer's. Keep in mind opinions, like mine, are like armpits; everyone has them and they all stink.

I'm going to banned from this site, after that spiel, huh?

 

[TLS Guy]

Epos are highly regarded in the UK. They are now owned by Creek audio. There design has a good pedigree right back to the BBC. Unfortunately there a fewer and fewer UK speaker companies free of Far Eastern ownership, KEF and Wharfedale are not among them. B & W never had any pedigree back to the BBC.

The companies that have a strong lineage to the research on loudspeakers back at the BBC, produce what I regard as the only listenable speakers in the world. Your friend has good ears.

They have those speakers at Needle Doctor, but there is no good way to evaluate them there. However I have noted they do not give offense, which the vast majority of speakers do.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The companies that have a strong lineage to the research on loudspeakers back at the BBC, produce what I regard as the only listenable speakers in the world.

I'll say one thing for you, TLS Guy, you're hilarious.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

With all due respect, I went out yesterday to Best Buy to demo the Pioneer Andrew Jones line, after I lost my bid on the Epos 121.2's and I was totally underwhelmed. It was all mid-range without any clarity. The tweeter was so over-shadowed by the mid-range as to be close to non-existent and the bass seemed to be hitching along for the ride. In their defense I will say that they were just placed on the bottom shelf, 3 to 4 feet apart in the general sales area instead of the Magnolia showroom. It was powered by a low-end 50w Denon, combined with general cacophony on the sales floor contributed to my impression. But I made it a point of literally placing my head about a foot in front of one of the speakers, with the tweeter at ear level, and still was not impressed. I would take my existing Polk Monitor 50's, that I purchased used for $150, in a heartbeat vs. the Pioneer's. Keep in mind opinions, like mine, are like armpits; everyone has them and they all stink.

I'm going to banned from this site, after that spiel, huh?

Well, not banned.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, That is why we come here. It's just your doesn't match the majority (aka polk suck) and there is nothing wrong with it per se.
I have auditioned all of Polk's bookshelves back 5-6 years ago in a audio dealer showroom and have found that I hated or didn't like the sound of every single one, but LSi/9
We both agree that Best Buy show floor is a terribly wrong space to audition audio.

Where is a reason I suggested both AVR and sub in this setup. You need to properly crossover the BS22's and don't let to attempt (and fail to play most of bass)
Pioneer sub, however small and has pretty average extension (about 35hz if I remember) but in it's range it is actually does a good job in smaller room as I mentioned.

In the end it comes down to personal preferences - some people might prefer harsh and overly bright highs and some love and swear by extremely bassy and boomy ATH-50m

 

[slipperybidness]

I'll say one thing for you, TLS Guy, you're hilarious.

BBC fanboy

 

[Ponzio]

TLS Guy ... Is that your home studio? Or is that something you designed for a customer? It is stunning and I imagine sounds amazing.

BTW if you're looking for cheap domestic labor, I'm available.

 

[Ponzio]

Well, not banned.

Just ignored, huh? ... and rightfully so.

 

[ahblaza]

TLS Guy ... Is that your home studio? Or is that something you designed for a customer? It is stunning and I imagine sounds amazing.

BTW if you're looking for cheap domestic labor, I'm available.

That is his home studio, all loudspeakers were built by him, everything referred to as Carter is his design. Dr. Mark Carter

 

[ImcLoud]

Just ignored, huh? ... and rightfully so.

The Pioneers sound OK for the price.. I personally think the Ascend 200se's sound at least 2 times better problem is they are around 3 times the cost.... The Pioneers have their shortcomings, and in a "LOW budget" system they have their place, but for a budget system, I like 200se, 170se, these epic 2s while they are on sale, Wharfedale Diamond 10.2's all of which I don't think the Pioneers can stand with at all....
Don't get me wrong they have their place, and they sound good, but I notice {and we own a set of the books} if you push them or put them in a medium sized room they fall apart, but they are $100 (that's what my brother paid anyway)....

Granted for $400 an entire system, Boreds avr, pios, and sub will be nice, but I personally would rather have a lepai 2020 with a set of these Epos, I hate running an avr for music only, and I heard that Pioneer sub, not music to my ears at all, I think the energy take 5 sub sounds better, I have a Sony sub from a HTIB that my son uses for his video games that I would compare it to....
But it may be the third coming of Jesus to some one else... I am really picky about subs for music, Some home theater subs just do a terrible job, I can't tell you why but even my HSU vtf2 sucks for music, I even played with the port plugs, just not very musical... Now on the other hand my Wharfedale 300s are for some reason super musical, not a ton of output {even with 2 of them} but very musical, deep, delicate(not sure if this is the rite word, but HT subs feel clumsy, where a smaller sealed sub feels articulate), and fast... I have only heard a handful of good musical subs, they svs SB1000 being the cheapest, and the only one larger than 12" is the uls15 (also my favorite, I don't know what they did to make that sub so good for music, but it rocks like a concert hall)...

Anyway.. To each their own, The pios are very nice and for the money may even be the best buy, but if you have a little more money, you can do better...

Another bookshelf to look at would be the Wharfedale Dentons (the new ones) I have my set and they are sweet, you may find somehting better for the cost {sierra 1s to name one} but definitely a sexy speaker with some history and a heck of a good sound...

 

[j_garcia]

Always been a fan of Epos since the ELS-3, which haven't been offered in some time. These look rather promising and that's a great price.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The pios are very nice and for the money may even be the best buy, but if you have a little more money, you can do better...

There is a budget system for every budget. I agree about Energy Subs they have quite good FR measurements for the price.

If we swap Pios with Ascends, used avr for Emo mini-x and sub for sb1000 and I am more that confident that it will sound so much better, with small stipulation we are multiplied this system price 3.5 times more (from initial 300 budget)
Yet, I am sure some will still call it a budget system and be right about it
But as you know, not everyone can afford to quad Funk subs


p.s: For the record, I liked and highly praised Wharfedale speakers before it was "cool"