Amps reviews questions: Is this a classic example of subjective vs objective measurements? Does it prove anything?

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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think it proves that subjective opinions are not really reviews. :D

The question is, do their $8,000 amps also measure 0.02% THD+N at 1kHz and cannot output the specified power output before clipping with 11% THD+N? :D
The answer was probably hinted (not by the reviewer) in the second last section:

Starke Sound A2.640 Power Amplifier Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

On The Bench
I compared in-room frequency response with other amplifiers on hand to that of the A2.640, and (as expected) found no differences. The differences that I hear from this amplifier are not frequency response related. Instead, detail, transparency, and bass control are audibly better with the A2.640, but these are measured with instruments that I do not have access to. I think that the A2.640’s excellent imaging is an artifact of an extremely low inter-channel crosstalk figure; again, this is speculation on my part. A bench test was planned for this amplifier, but due to scheduling considerations, became infeasible.
 
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tparm

Audioholic
I so enjoy this forum. This one is a tough one for me. People write and read subjective reviews all the time of all sorts of things; food, wine, cars; are they useful? I'd say in many cases they are entertaining at least. Audio gear is such a different entity and seems to draw an emotional line in defense of ones personal perspective. Maybe I'm a wuss but I try to walk the line in the middle. I'm not trained and I don't claim to have golden ears, but my experience would say not all speakers, amps and DACs sound the same. If they did as long as something was decently screwed together one could buy it and never need to consider another purchase. I personally don't know anyone that falls in that category.

I do believe subjective reviews are largely opinions and while I am no reviewer (or journalist) when someone asked my opinion, I provide it based on my experience which is all subjective as I have no way of doing in-depth measurements. Measurements seem to provide a glimpse into if a product is well engineered and built (still, per taste? Amir hates the slow roll off of the SR 8015 DAC, but is it intentional?) and may be a good barometer as to the transparency of a product or how to place a speaker based on its on and off axis response, but to me that is only part of the story. Even Amir listens to speakers and provides a subjective perspective, I guess he is of the opinion that electronics all sound the same so he doesn't with AVR/AVPs, amps, etc etc.

I appreciate that in many cases here Gene and AH staff use and listen to products, that is super helpful to me, not only to provide an opinion on sound, but the functionality/UI too.

So can subjective and objective reviews co-exist? Sure. Are some people going to plant themselves firmly in one camp or another? Sure, and who cares? My believe is the killer to all things human is the direction we are headed where absolutes exist and folks don't open themselves up to maybe there is another way, another perspective to consider or heaven forbid, maybe I am just wrong on this (generic term) topic.

We have lost our ability to dialog with one another. It s easy to hide behind keyboard and say ridiculous things to perfect strangers, I know because I have done it. I turn 50 this coming Tuesday and I think I may be close to finally growing up in some areas and this is one of them. :p I enjoy our hobby, its not my job, but it consumes a lot of my time and money. So if I feel my C298 sounds different than my A52+, so be it, what makes me wrong for feeling so? Anyway, I have no idea how I ended up here in this thread response..... But I wouldn't spend the money Starke wants for these amps based on the measured results. But I did buy the NAD based on results I've seen from Purifi modules and a few subjective reviews I watched/read based on its sound characteristics, so I am the one that drives some of you mad. ;) And thanks for having me. Haha.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
No Measurements = WORTHLESS :D
As others mentioned, subjective reviews on even just power amps are often useful at least for people who want to know more about features such as connectivity, gain adjustments etc.

In this particular review, I do feel it is almost 100% for entertainment or just a good laugh.
 
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snbeall

Enthusiast
I don't know if UI, settings, actual in use practicality is subjective or objective - I would tend to place that in the objective column. And the fact many of these subjective reviews and sites are purely for entertainment (or should be) does not help the novice who stumbles onto them and is preyed upon. WE may be experienced enough to see such side show promotion when we see it. It is the unsophisticated novice that concerns me. Always has been so. Always will be, I suppose. It's just that these hucksters can reach so many more "followers" with these sites today. I suppose the comments section is the only way to help the novices at least see the other side. I'm with @tparm. The division and black/white absolute thinking is a real concern. What has happened to critical thinking and a healthy dose of open mindedness? Or better a dose of self doubt?
 
S

snbeall

Enthusiast
For those interested, the day following the second test/review at ASR confirmed the findings of the first (making three total including the unit tested here at AH), Starke abruptly removed the AD4.320 completely from their website and halted all sales of new and B stock units - as if it had never existed. Then, a few days later they announced their "Generation 3 line of Class D amplifiers" available for order this spring. No further stock of AD4.320 available. Nothing more about the abrupt withdrawal (or circumstances). But all promotional links to favorable reviews for the AD4.320 remained.

What is also unsaid is that in response to the initial testing and ensuing discussion at ASR, Starke had already announced a standing policy whereby any owner dissatisfied with their unit could return it for a full refund, regardless of date of purchase. This policy has not been well publicized elsewhere. And is certainly not posted or mentioned in these announcements.
 

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