Alternative to Denon Remote App?

B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
I have an AVR x1200w. Its the 2nd Denon receiver I've owned, and quite frankly my least favorite of the two. Snice the day I got it the Bluetooth as well as the front panel USB port have been iffy. Bluetooth wise, it forgets often what it was connected to last and the USB port sometimes just doesn't recognize anything is plugged into it. Like many other reviews I've seen, the only way to get the AVR to work properly is to disconnect power, reconnect and suddenly it all works until the next time it starts acting stupid again.

This past weekend I ran speaker cabling up through attic and over to my AVR to utilize Zone 2 on my patio. Man am I impressed with the sound of the Dayton audio speakers I installed. But....this AVR's Bluetooth is awful. and the Denon remote app...wow, its so bad.

Sunday I managed to get the app to work the majority of the day since we were outside a lot. But just like its always done...I go to use it today, app doesn't see the receiver. It sees other pieces of equipment, but not the receiver. I can get my phone and the AVR pair'd, but when I go to the app, it doesn't see the AVR at all. I have deleted and installed the app probably 10 times, I've re-paired probably 20 times, I've rebooted my phone repeatedly...nothing. Which really sucks because I don't wanna have to try and get the Denon remote to work through our back window to skip forward a song, or change volume. I don't know what my options are, but it would be nice to be able to use the app on my phone. I looked at the HEOS app (which seems to be more stable), but I guess in order to use HEOS, you have to have HEOS equipment. I "think" my receiver is HEOS able, but it requires an additional piece of equipment or something. I did download the HEOS app and it also didn't recognize my AVR. My question regarding this long story is...is there some sort of generic app that can be utilized with the Denon AVR to give me control from a device other than the Denon remote? I'm not interested in adding anymore hardware like Apple TV or any of that. I'm just wondering, is the Denon line of apps my only option? They all seem to suck.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Not that I know of.

Denon/Marantz needs to learn from Yamaha and create something stable like Yamaha's MusicCast App for both streaming and WiFi Remote Control App.
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
Not that I know of.

Denon/Marantz needs to learn from Yamaha and create something stable like Yamaha's MusicCast App for both streaming and WiFi Remote Control App.
I agree 100%. Its actually disturbing at how bad the Denon apps are. Like, how does that happen?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I agree 100%. Its actually disturbing at how bad the Denon apps are. Like, how does that happen?
Well, other than the Yamaha app that works 100% of the time for me, I don't know of any other AVR/AVP remote apps from any company that works as well.

Does Anthem, Audio Control, NAD, Rotel, JBL, Trinnov or anyone else have a WiFi and Streaming app like Yamaha that works 100% of the time even when your home internet is DOWN? :D

Most companies are extremely small when compared the giant Yamaha corporation. Yamaha just has a lot more money and resources. No comparison.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
How about a radio frequency (as opposed to infrared) remote? Can't say I've ever bothered with Denon apps myself, the one avr I have that capability with also has IP control, which is easier (but never tried android apps, just laptops)
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
This is, in my opinion, one of the biggest headaches of AVR (and TV) manufacturers these days.

They need to build a super 'smart' product, that as a secondary thing, needs to do the actual purpose for which it was designed.

Seriously - read reviews of Blu-ray Disc players and see how many people just bitch about the 'smart' features that come along with their disc player and never mention the quality of playback of the discs, or the audio quality. It is insane. Same with TV reviews. I care about image quality, but Jane in New York is upset because the Home Shopping Network app on the TV isn't supported.

I like Denon's product, I have for years, but I find that Yamaha simply does a better job in certain things and they have become my first choice. But even then, they aren't perfect and the upkeep of software is clearly a huge headache.

My respect for Yamaha came a long time ago. Yamaha had their flagship RX-V1 AVR. It had issues. It was perfectly fine for zone 1, but the control portion of zone 2 was, putting it mildly, flaky. You couldn't actually turn on zone 2 without zone 1 turning on. Turning off zone 2, would sometimes turn off zone 1, even if zone 1 was powered on separately. It was just poor software development.

A year or so later the V1 was changed to the Z1 and Yamaha completely redid their entire control interface and protocols. They had hundreds of infrared codes added which allowed for discrete control of their product. Their RS232 interface (pre-network days!) was updated and is still maintained twenty years later in similar fashion, to allow full control of their product.

Twenty years ago, they learned the lesson that proper software MUST be a focus of product development, and they've stuck with that philosophy over the years. At least, that's my take.

But, as we move forward, this is just not getting any better for product manufacturers. This is why I support and believe in companies like Sonos, or Roku. These are manufacturers whose entire purpose is to make streaming content devices and give end users (US!) a great final experience. They aren't motivated by corporate sales like Amazon or Apple products are. Their main selling point is their product and their great user experience.

While it would be, by far, the most ideal thing for you to just be able to use your Denon. It's what Denon advertised, it is what you bought... It just may not be a workable solution if the product doesn't handle your needs really well. A Sonos Amp may be the better solution outside. Or, you may wish to sell the Denon and pick up an equivalent Yamaha product.

I certainly have no problem making zone 2 work with Denon products. Turning it on/off and picking a source for zone 2 and adjusting volume, but when I do it, I run through RS232 control most often. I haven't even played with IP control, but I've heard it is excellent as well. But, I've never gotten deep into their streaming apps. I think that would drive me nuts. Still, I use a high level control system to make it all work, and that's a lot more money than just buying a product which works to begin with.
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
How about a radio frequency (as opposed to infrared) remote? Can't say I've ever bothered with Denon apps myself, the one avr I have that capability with also has IP control, which is easier (but never tried android apps, just laptops)
I am not familiar with IP control at all. Guess I'll have to do some research
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
This is, in my opinion, one of the biggest headaches of AVR (and TV) manufacturers these days.

They need to build a super 'smart' product, that as a secondary thing, needs to do the actual purpose for which it was designed.

Seriously - read reviews of Blu-ray Disc players and see how many people just bitch about the 'smart' features that come along with their disc player and never mention the quality of playback of the discs, or the audio quality. It is insane. Same with TV reviews. I care about image quality, but Jane in New York is upset because the Home Shopping Network app on the TV isn't supported.

I like Denon's product, I have for years, but I find that Yamaha simply does a better job in certain things and they have become my first choice. But even then, they aren't perfect and the upkeep of software is clearly a huge headache.

My respect for Yamaha came a long time ago. Yamaha had their flagship RX-V1 AVR. It had issues. It was perfectly fine for zone 1, but the control portion of zone 2 was, putting it mildly, flaky. You couldn't actually turn on zone 2 without zone 1 turning on. Turning off zone 2, would sometimes turn off zone 1, even if zone 1 was powered on separately. It was just poor software development.

A year or so later the V1 was changed to the Z1 and Yamaha completely redid their entire control interface and protocols. They had hundreds of infrared codes added which allowed for discrete control of their product. Their RS232 interface (pre-network days!) was updated and is still maintained twenty years later in similar fashion, to allow full control of their product.

Twenty years ago, they learned the lesson that proper software MUST be a focus of product development, and they've stuck with that philosophy over the years. At least, that's my take.

But, as we move forward, this is just not getting any better for product manufacturers. This is why I support and believe in companies like Sonos, or Roku. These are manufacturers whose entire purpose is to make streaming content devices and give end users (US!) a great final experience. They aren't motivated by corporate sales like Amazon or Apple products are. Their main selling point is their product and their great user experience.

While it would be, by far, the most ideal thing for you to just be able to use your Denon. It's what Denon advertised, it is what you bought... It just may not be a workable solution if the product doesn't handle your needs really well. A Sonos Amp may be the better solution outside. Or, you may wish to sell the Denon and pick up an equivalent Yamaha product.

I certainly have no problem making zone 2 work with Denon products. Turning it on/off and picking a source for zone 2 and adjusting volume, but when I do it, I run through RS232 control most often. I haven't even played with IP control, but I've heard it is excellent as well. But, I've never gotten deep into their streaming apps. I think that would drive me nuts. Still, I use a high level control system to make it all work, and that's a lot more money than just buying a product which works to begin with.
I decided probably 2 years ago that when its time to buy a new AVR, it'll most likely be Yamaha. I'm a huge Yamaha fan. I play both their instruments as well as ride their motorcycles haha. I did consider Yamaha when I bought this AVR, but this AVR was replacing a Denon I had from 2002 which I loved, and didn't have any issues with. Of course that AVR was pre network and pre app days. It was a pretty straight forward piece of equipment that just simply worked.

For me its frustrating because I AM NOT an app person. Just like Bluetooth and even wireless they're always my last option. However, in this case it seemed like my best option, given that I already own the equipment.

I did however do some testing last night and I found that the Denon app will see and connect to the AVR ONLY if its hardwired to the network. This is incredibly strange since all of our devices connect and work with the AVR when its on wifi. Its even more odd that last weekend after the speaker install, the app worked while the AVR was on wifi. But now, the app doesn't even recognize it. Plug in an ethernet cable and voila, the app connects and works with the AVR. So, it looks like I'll be back up in the attic to drop an ethernet cable to the AVR and back over to my office where our router is.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I am not familiar with IP control at all. Guess I'll have to do some research
IP control is the app. It is just referencing your ability to control the receiver using your network.

Glad to hear you got it worked out with a wired connection. There are so many 'rules' around wi-fi and what may be allowed/blocked over a home network it can get crazy. Really nice that a wired connection solves things. The wired network connection over at your AV receiver is a best choice anyway. As MUCH stuff as possible in your home should be wired and living on a wired network. It will maximize reliability and overall quality.
 
Teetertotter?

Teetertotter?

Full Audioholic
Try a factory RESET.............And others find a Harmony Remote by Logitech. You can still download their software and set-up your equipment. I have their 650.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
IP control is the app. It is just referencing your ability to control the receiver using your network.

Glad to hear you got it worked out with a wired connection. There are so many 'rules' around wi-fi and what may be allowed/blocked over a home network it can get crazy. Really nice that a wired connection solves things. The wired network connection over at your AV receiver is a best choice anyway. As MUCH stuff as possible in your home should be wired and living on a wired network. It will maximize reliability and overall quality.
How so? IP/web control doesn't require the app on mine, nor per the info in his manual, just a browser.
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
How so? IP/web control doesn't require the app on mine, nor per the info in his manual, just a browser.
Yeah, you just go to a browser, put in the IP address of the AVR and voila, you can control it. I did some reading up about it

But...can you select the source using IP control? To me it looked like it was more for setup and not selecting source nor skip song, volume etc.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, you just go to a browser, put in the IP address of the AVR and voila, you can control it. I did some reading up about it

But...can you select the source using IP control? To me it looked like it was more for setup and not selecting source nor skip song, volume etc.
Select the source and controlling the source are different things....but should be easily done on the same device using various music apps like foobar2000 or bubbleupnp etc
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
How so? IP/web control doesn't require the app on mine, nor per the info in his manual, just a browser.
IP, actually TCP/IP, means that the system has a set of rules that allow for control using Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol standards. Key concept, is that it is a communications standard, much like spoken words is a standard, even if the words are different (different languages).

To say 'IP' control is somewhat inaccurate. It is network control using the TCP/IP standard. But, it gets a bit pedantic when we demand things to be so particular.

Still, for those who may be confused on it:

In a consumer device, there are several different common ways TCP/IP may be used for the end consumer:
1. A purpose built app that runs on a phone and gives a nice user interface.
2. A built in web server that shows web pages for a user interface.
3. Command line communication which provides information about the device.

Additionally, most modern AVRs offer streaming of audio, firmware updates, and other internal apps which all use TCP/IP standards.

So, there are several different forms of network control which are available. All of them may exist at once, or only one or two may be implemented at a time. One may offer more features, one may offer less. They may cross communicate with each other. They may not. One may work really well and be super consistent, another may be lousy and really not work well at all. Much like the spoken word offers us different languages, it is not the written word. And just because you can speak, doesn't mean you can read. And just because you can speak English, doesn't mean you can speak French. But, it still means you can speak. Speaking would be the standard protocol.

I was really just trying to keep it really simple in my statement to help someone who may not understand what IP control is, but it does make sense to expand on what IP control could mean and often does mean to a typical user. But, the web interface is just as valid.

All of this ends up getting into the weeds of it all more than anything else and certainly people who do networking daily are far more in tune with the specifics and the deep weeds of TCP/IP and network control.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
IP, actually TCP/IP, means that the system has a set of rules that allow for control using Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol standards. Key concept, is that it is a communications standard, much like spoken words is a standard, even if the words are different (different languages).

To say 'IP' control is somewhat inaccurate. It is network control using the TCP/IP standard. But, it gets a bit pedantic when we demand things to be so particular.

Still, for those who may be confused on it:

In a consumer device, there are several different common ways TCP/IP may be used for the end consumer:
1. A purpose built app that runs on a phone and gives a nice user interface.
2. A built in web server that shows web pages for a user interface.
3. Command line communication which provides information about the device.

Additionally, most modern AVRs offer streaming of audio, firmware updates, and other internal apps which all use TCP/IP standards.

So, there are several different forms of network control which are available. All of them may exist at once, or only one or two may be implemented at a time. One may offer more features, one may offer less. They may cross communicate with each other. They may not. One may work really well and be super consistent, another may be lousy and really not work well at all. Much like the spoken word offers us different languages, it is not the written word. And just because you can speak, doesn't mean you can read. And just because you can speak English, doesn't mean you can speak French. But, it still means you can speak. Speaking would be the standard protocol.

I was really just trying to keep it really simple in my statement to help someone who may not understand what IP control is, but it does make sense to expand on what IP control could mean and often does mean to a typical user. But, the web interface is just as valid.

All of this ends up getting into the weeds of it all more than anything else and certainly people who do networking daily are far more in tune with the specifics and the deep weeds of TCP/IP and network control.

I'm still pissed off that Denon removed setup and control using a browser.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
BTW- for those who use a Yamaha AVR and like being able to control it from a computer, tablet or smart phone- if you type the AVR's IP address in your browser with /setup at the end, you won't need to use the buttons on the front or remote with OSD on the TV and the setup is far more complete than using the remote or buttons.
 

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