Alternative for Emotiva XPA-2 Amp

[ImcLoud]

ImcLoud is a sad person who complains on the internet and has an annoying signature that takes up more space than most posts. Just be glad you are not like him.
.

What did I complain about? You left me a negative rep {that had no effect since you were red at the time} full of insults... I didn't start this...
I got 4 Pm's from different members saying to ignore these guys, they are just trolls and wont be around long, so do both of us a favor and block me so you don't have to see my posts and long signature...

as for all amps sounding the same, its not a big deal, you believe what you want and I will do the same...

Of course you have to say some amps sound better, you spent a ton of money on Mcintosh gear, if I wasn't so poor I would too... So lets see some pics of your gear.... "and other stuff..."

 

[jinjuku]

Jinjuku, if you want to offer advice to someone looking for an amp, the wrong way to go about it is to force your opinions onto others as you have in this thread. You've made 18 posts, almost 25% of the posts(79 total so far) in this thread! You've been argumentative and belittling at times which only tends to turn away posters from your advice. You like pro gear, WE GET IT. But you're not going to get anyone to try your advice with such an attitude.

I'm not sure how it is a moderator can act like this in a forum, but geez man, sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

Belittle? Care to back that up?

If you haven't gotten the point that it's free to try something, easy to do so, then you might want to give it a go.

On other forums people were going on and on about cables. AQ this, Kimber that. I went to BB and picked up a $500 AQ HDMI cable and tried it out.

I'm not asking nor advocating anything less or more.

Now on the other hand there are posters simply bashing pro-gear. It's just bashing and it's not in good taste of the purpose forums like this are meant to serve.

What does me being a mod have to do with the price of tea in China and my ability to fan some hater back from home plate with a pitch high and inside.

There is indeed a disservice being done here and it's not by me.

Argumentative, on a forum? Get outta here that never happens

 

[jinjuku]

He just went from a boom box to Crown, now that was some change in SQ, that's for sure. Now if you're talking about real Crown amps now that's a different story. Far East Made Crowns are not for real, it's just a brand name to cash in on. You can't buy a real Crown for peanuts. In my field of work I pay more for a piece of ham than the cost of these inexpensive amps. My first Heathkit I build in 1964 blew me away, it all depends what pacifies you. Am I satisfied with my system, for now I would say yes, I am also looking at my next and last speaker system which is about 75k. Which is about twice the price of the speakers I own now. You got me thinking now, maybe I should have gotten some Andrew Jones speakers and saved myself 30k. I think you're on to something.

Walter you are a integral member here. I am surprised at the Cherry picking you are choosing to engage in. Anyone can read through the links I sent to including people comparing the Crown to their Rotel and Adcom gear and also Peavey IPR vs their Parasound and Bryston in those respective threads.

I didn't say anything about Andrew Jones speakers. You spend what ever you want to spend. I find it disheartening that you would discourage someone that doesn't have $75K (double the budget of your last speakers) from trying something that others have tried, currently use, that you haven't had ears on.

The OP doesn't have $5-$14K to spend on a 'real Crown'. Yamaha and Peavey have also been recommended. The OP's situation is what it is.

What I need to ask Sharkman and you: What is your goal, in this thread, as it pertains to the OP? What are you here to do for him in a positive manner?

Read the original thread title again: Alternative for Emotiva XPA-2 Amp. Sharkman and Walt you need to let me know in a no nonsense manner, technical, factually based, data driven manner how my suggestions (ignoring peoples emotionally based reactions) DON'T hold any merit.

In other words you need to spell out WHY the Crown, they Yamaha, the Peavey IPR don't honor the OP's request.

I'll agree discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[walter duque]

Walter you are a integral member here. I am surprised at the Cherry picking you are choosing to engage in. Anyone can read through the links I sent to including people comparing the Crown to their Rotel and Adcom gear and also Peavey IPR vs their Parasound and Bryston in those respective threads.

I didn't say anything about Andrew Jones speakers. You spend what ever you want to spend. I find it disheartening that you would discourage someone that doesn't have $75K (double the budget of your last speakers) from trying something that others have tried, currently use, that you haven't had ears on.

The OP doesn't have $5-$14K to spend on a 'real Crown'. Yamaha and Peavey have also been recommended. The OP's situation is what it is.

What I need to ask Sharkman and you: What is your goal, in this thread, as it pertains to the OP? What are you here to do for him in a positive manner?

Read the original thread title again: Alternative for Emotiva XPA-2 Amp. Sharkman and Walt you need to let me know in a no nonsense manner, technical, factually based, data driven manner how my suggestions (ignoring peoples emotionally based reactions) DON'T hold any merit.

In other words you need to spell out WHY the Crown, they Yamaha, the Peavey IPR don't honor the OP's request.

I'll agree discretion is the better part of valor.

I do have to apologize to you for that post, I had a few under my belt. The suggestions you made to the OP are perfectly in order. I can't comment on any EMO amps because I have never heard one before. Seems to me, from some of the post that I have read that they are not reliable amps (minimum I expect from a power amp is 15-20 years of service). Now if I would need an amp I would also go with a Crown or Yamaha (I happen to like Yamaha gear) too. I just never owned a power amp that was unreliable. So your suggestions to make sense. I hope we're OK on this one. I do realize I was out of line with that post. BTW my Cinepro amps are modified pro amps. OEM on them was AB International and they have served me well and are still kicking after all them years of abuse. The Cinepro amps don't compare to Belles, Threshold, VSP Labs, Perreaux, but that's whole different league of amps. Belles happens to be my all time favorite amp.

 

[ReUpRo]

This thread has generated my idea for an AH Editorial, "Class D bench tested - Are Pro Amps good enough for your Home?".

The article will follow the exact testing protocol for all amps given to AH for reviews, with a little emphasis on verifying or debunking common wisdom associated with Class D topology. For example, do today's Pro Amps on Class D implementations have high frequency distortion putting tweeters at risk, is it difficulty to drive a Pro Amp to full power because most AVR pre-outs will clip before then, etc.

 

[TLS Guy]

Any thoughts on the Parasound A23 Halo? Will it have enough quality power at 125w? And no I haven't given up on the pro gear. Going to do some more homework..
The NAD 275BEE looks good too.

If you want an amp that will be the last one you will likely ever buy, then get this. It is up at a very good price. It is unconditionally stable, gives class A sound with none of the hassle and runs cool. End your search and amp problems. I know you don't believe it, but I'm telling you these are the best domestic amps for general use you can buy.

 

[PENG]

At the risk of getting more insults my way, here's a response from a pro amp owner who upgraded to the A23, post 22.

Edit: I don't think that all electronics sound the same. I was repeating an opinion that I've read on another forum.

People do get passionate at times and said things that could be perceived as insults and I always hope to see better behaviour on this forum.

Back to the OP`s question, I thought I had recommended the A23 to the OP too, or it might have been to another poster in another thread. I opted for the A21 myself only because I couldn't afford the JC's. On the practical side even an A23 would have been an overkill for my needs. That obviously is not a wise thing (okay, maybe foolish) to do for everyone so I would never recommend or expect others to do the same. As I responded to the OP's other question previously, not everyone should or would just buy the cheapest amp even if the amps being considered won't offer audible differences. This is more of a hobby, I think, for us audioholics so sound quality is not the only thing in the equation.

I read the posts you linked but if you spend time on similar threads/posts you would find that for every view point/opinion there would be a counterpoint or different opinion. One should also be careful about things seemingly reported as facts that are not, i.e. false information, example can be seen in post#10,11 from the link you provided. Anyone can post their subjective findings on the internet. As such, none should be taken as anything more than someone's own experience in his/her specific circumstance that may or may not apply to another person's circumstance. That's one of the reasons why I typically base my final purchase decision mainly on verifiable specs of a science/engineering product. I do value user opionons but only to a point and only after some back and forth PMs with the owners. I guess the reason to do that should be obvious..

As to the "all electronics sound the same", that sort of remarks does not say much without qualifications, and I know you are justing quoting others. Not that I care, but you've got me curious and the source thread(s) could be potentially entertaining. Please provide a link (PM if you prefer) if you have a spare moment.

 

[jinjuku]

I do have to apologize to you for that post, I had a few under my belt. The suggestions you made to the OP are perfectly in order. I can't comment on any EMO amps because I have never heard one before. Seems to me, from some of the post that I have read that they are not reliable amps (minimum I expect from a power amp is 15-20 years of service).

My first amps (Crown DC 300A and DC 150A) produced in 1977 are still in use to this very day. I gifted them as a wedding present to a buddy that simply fell in love with them.

BTW my Cinepro amps are modified pro amps. OEM on them was AB International and they have served me well and are still kicking after all them years of abuse.

My AB International Precedence 900 is installed at the gym I work out at. It had transformer hum that made it too loud for home use. It stays powered up 24/7. Thing is a beast.

 

[ematthews]

Question on the Crown xls drive core. Is this just a simple hook up with RCA jacks? How do you set the volume knobs on this? I have never had an amp with volumn knobs or any adjustments. Just wondering how it works in my 2.1 set up.

 

[TheHills44060]

What did I complain about? You left me a negative rep {that had no effect since you were red at the time} full of insults... I didn't start this...
Of course you have to say some amps sound better, you spent a ton of money on Mcintosh gear, if I wasn't so poor I would too... So lets see some pics of your gear.... "and other stuff..."

I have no problem with you, I don't know you and this is just the internet so no harm no foul. You just seemed to get REALLY offended that I don't care for Emotiva amps and I have no idea why. Take a look again and notice that I indeed gave you positive (+) rep. Sure I wrote a little jab in there but don't take it so personally everyone is in this thread because we share the interest in audio and all have our preferences.

I am really interested to see which direction ematthews ends up going with his amp choice.

 

[PENG]

minimum I expect from a power amp is 15-20 years of service

I think I understand your point as I have only one single failure of one channel of the Adcom GFA555, only after more than 20 years of use and I am still using if for my HT setup's center channel. The oldest amps in my collection are a pair of 35 (approx., was a gift) year old Marantz pre/power amp that I used to drive my KEF R900. I recently replaced the power amp with the A21, no step up in sound quality but there is a slight improvement in bass, only subjectively, very minor but seem noticeable. I did try bypassing the preamp, still no gain. By the way, even my smallest amp, Denon AVR1705 and Yamaha RX-V659 seem indestructible.

 

[PENG]

My first amps (Crown DC 300A and DC 150A) produced in 1977 are still in use to this very day. I gifted them as a wedding present to a buddy that simply fell in love with them.



My AB International Precedence 900 is installed at the gym I work out at. It had transformer hum that made it too loud for home use. It stays powered up 24/7. Thing is a beast.

I consider myself a frequent concert goer but I do try to avoid the amplified ones whenever possible. Am I right in assuming that most amplified concerts, hence live recordings or even some stuido recordings would involve the use of proamps? If so, then I would expect people who mainly listened to rocks and pops should have no issues with pro amps from sound qualtiy stand point. Am I missing something in my theory?

 

[jinjuku]

Question on the Crown xls drive core. Is this just a simple hook up with RCA jacks? How do you set the volume knobs on this? I have never had an amp with volumn knobs or any adjustments. Just wondering how it works in my 2.1 set up.

So the XLS have both XLR and RCA connections.

The thing to understand going in is that there are two standards for analog line level input/output (I/O):

+4 dBu (Professional)

-10 dBv (Consumer)

Please note the u/v designation. Please also note that physical connection doesn't mean a +4dBu or -10dBv standard is being used based on that. Crowns RCA is +4dBu. Behringers A500, as example, also has RCA in addition to XLR but on that unit the XLR is +4 dBu and their RCA is -10 dBv.

Click here to read more.

Without getting into the technical details here, and you would have to double check with Emotiva, I believe your Emotiva outputs 4v Peak to Peak so it shouldn't have a problem driving the Crown.


So that should handle the overview of your first question.

The second is the knobs on the front. They aren't volume knobs. I know, I know its very instinctive to think that since if you turn them all the way down the amp won't make any noise.

What the knobs are there is to enable what is called unity gain structure when you have a large environment of dissimilar equipment that may each have different gain structure. Not as important to your application. Even my Parasound had gain knobs.

I believe the Crown at full attenuation (knobs open all the way) has a gain structure of 28dB. If you introduced a piece of gear that did say 7v peak to peak you wouldn't need the knobs opened up all the way, Maybe only 1/2 to 2/3 way to get full output from the amp.

Often people speak about 'Synergy'. My personal opinion on this is when you see that you have someone that is running into unity gain issues with their Pre-pro's, sources, and amplification but don't understand the technical underpinnings.

Bottom line is I think some attention to equipment selection is important. It's why I use the EMU 1212M. It supports both +4 dBu and -10 dBv. Just not at the same time. You load a different configuration for each.

I think thoughtful component selection is one of the reasons I have a really well performing, composed system. I haven't in 3 plus years wondered if something is missing. It's a nice place to be at. I have been fortunate to compare to two systems in the ~$14K range and couldn't be happier.

 

[jinjuku]

I consider myself a frequent concert goer but I do try to avoid the amplified ones whenever possible. Am I right in assuming that most amplified concerts, hence live recordings or even some stuido recordings would involve the use of proamps? If so, then I would expect people who mainly listened to rocks and pops should have no issues with pro amps from sound qualtiy stand point. Am I missing something in my theory?

I'm not sure what theory you are trying to promote here. My take away from what you have written is that 'pro-amps' somehow have a signature for some genres of music? But that doesn't sound right coming from you so I will wait for your reply.

 

[walter duque]

I think I understand your point as I have only one single failure of one channel of the Adcom GFA555, only after more than 20 years of use and I am still using if for my HT setup's center channel. The oldest amps in my collection are a pair of 35 (approx., was a gift) year old Marantz pre/power amp that I used to drive my KEF R900. I recently replaced the power amp with the A21, no step up in sound quality but there is a slight improvement in bass, only subjectively, very minor but seem noticeable. I did try bypassing the preamp, still no gain. By the way, even my smallest amp, Denon AVR1705 and Yamaha RX-V659 seem indestructible.

Seems to me they just don't build them like they used to. I know Onkyo is getting a bad reputation too, my first AVR was an Onkyo 100 watts x 5 high current. Must have purchased in the mid 90's or so, can't remember when. Gave it to my cousin years ago and still to this day is working with no issues at all. To top it off it's in a closed cabinet.

 

[sharkman]

Belittle? Care to back that up?

If you haven't gotten the point that it's free to try something, easy to do so, then you might want to give it a go.

On other forums people were going on and on about cables. AQ this, Kimber that. I went to BB and picked up a $500 AQ HDMI cable and tried it out.

I'm not asking nor advocating anything less or more.

Now on the other hand there are posters simply bashing pro-gear. It's just bashing and it's not in good taste of the purpose forums like this are meant to serve.

What does me being a mod have to do with the price of tea in China and my ability to fan some hater back from home plate with a pitch high and inside.

There is indeed a disservice being done here and it's not by me.

Argumentative, on a forum? Get outta here that never happens

Back it up? Okay, here's some of your comments from post #20…..

And you are always pushing Pre-built and consumer audio gear. What an idiotic statement...

I'll push what ever I want when ever I want. Why wouldn't I and why shouldn't I? GMAB? One break coming right up....

Talk is certainly talk, if you can't back it up. You don't need luck if you have the skills.

And from post #29:

Sorry to stand up and point all this out but it's pure ignorance to make such blatant, blanket, statements like this.

Those are belittling comments. And the point is not whether you felt justified or were challenged, the point is simply you made belittling comments and you seem to be completely unaware of this. You also continue to completely monopolize this thread with multiple posts. I've belonged to many forums and never seen this type of unprofessional behaviour from a mod before, so that's why I point it out.

Good for you on the pro amp experience. It's not mine, and those of us who opt to not buy them usually do because they tend to be ugly, have fans, and we prefer class A/B. I'm also not interested in an amp that costs the manufacturer a hundred bucks or so to make, but that may just be me.

 

[jinjuku]

When you quote it would be nice if you didn't do it out of context.

In post 20:

Billy said: You are always pushing DIY & pro audio...

My rejoinder was: And you are always pushing Pre-built and consumer audio gear. That is what is called a reciprocal trajectory. And when I said What an idiotic statement... It was. I didn't call anyone an idiot. I said the statement was idiotic.

To this very moment NO ONE HERE, in context of the amps I have mentioned, have as of yet posted a single scintilla of data driven evidence as to their SQ inferiority. Neither a single scintilla of data driven evidence why it won't be driven properly by his Emotiva gear.

Sorry conjecture doesn't fly with me. Do you have anything of merit to actually contribute. You could at least back your view point up.


In post 29:

My response of:

Sorry to stand up and point all this out but it's pure ignorance to make such blatant, blanket, statements like this. Was to post 28

There were two blanket statements made:

1. Class D blowing out Tweeters (ReUpRo handled this with a very informative read)

2. The entire pre-amp impedance issues

Sorry but it was indeed a blanket statement that was made in ignorance. It is what it is. What you may not care for is my not sugar coating it. It doesn't mean it's belittlement. I even asked for clarification on pre-amp impedance issues. I can only assume we are talking about input vs output impedance but the conversation on point 2 didn't go any further when I asked for more clarity.

 

[walter duque]

I think it's time to take a break. Even I got out of hand. Let's just all chill out for a while, this should to be fun and not trashing other peoples preferences.
We all know Bose is the #1 selling brand in the world.

 

[fuzz092888]

I think it's time to take a break. Even I got out of hand. Let's just all chill out for a while, this should to be fun and not trashing other peoples preferences.
We all know Bose is the #1 selling brand in the world.

I love my little Bose system

 

[jinjuku]

I'm also not interested in an amp that costs the manufacturer a hundred bucks or so to make, but that may just be me.

First off being a Mod doesn't mean I don't get to participate. I find your 'not interested in a amp that costs a manufacturer a hundred bucks or so to make' very much a tell (as in cards).

I'm interested in any piece of gear that sounds great. Everyone's mileage may vary.

You're viewpoint simply doesn't have an basis in performance realities given the OP's quest to find an alternate to the XPA-2.

And lastly, I'm dominating the thread because I have the technical expertise to take on misconceptions from several members here. I'm certainly not shy of being taught a lesson either truth be told. When TLS Guy, or Grant EV, JNeutron, 3dB, or others get into a thread I learn a boatload. Usually by keeping quiet.

I learn because they have a well researched, technical base with which to share information and pass on knowledge.