Alien Enemies Act of 1798

D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
I'm concerned about the coverage on it from Fox because it feels to me like performance in sense of carrying out "swift" justice for the viewers. Plus Bannon saying if one or two accidentally get caught in the mix oh well. Not a terribly responsible thing to say and leaves and opening for concern.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
I stopped listening with the first sentenc
Well that's your loss. It's a decent and fairly comprehensive legal review of events. (I'm more irritated by the ads in the video than the hyperbole, but that's just me.)

C'mon, TT, you don't support unchecked autocracy over rule of law, do you?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
There are immigration judges for the deportee’s so due process is not being violated although it’s an expedited process
What is your source for this? What immigration judges are purportedly involved in the expedited process concerning the people in the prison in El Salvador?

The administration could have used 8 USC 1227, but they chose to use 50 USC 21.



There are expedited deportation processes that could have been used, but I have found nothing on the court record indicating that any such process was being used. Here's a link to the case:


The appearance it creates is that the administration did not have sufficient evidence to use one of the other deportation laws, so Trump made a very quiet proclamation and and then got the deportees out of the country as quickly as possible in an effort to avoid judicial review.

If a President can make findings of fact and deport people without judicial review, and if the courts are powerless to do anything about it once the people are locked up in a foreign prison, a president can deport and lock up anyone.

In some ways, this reminds me of the drone strikes that killed U.S. citizens

>>>Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki . . . was a 16-year-old United States citizen who was killed by a U.S. drone strike in Yemen. He was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki. . . . The U.S. drone strike that killed Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki was conducted under a policy approved by U.S. President Barack Obama.<<<


Now that I've torqued off people on both side of the R v D political divide (please people, we are Americans, we are not on these stupid teams the politicians form to advance their own self interests).

Perhaps a future president Obama during a 3rd or 4th term in office (after pulling off a Trumperoosky end run on the 22nd Amendment) will deport and lock up Bondi and Miller. Keep in mind that the government is arguing that the President's findings of fact under the Alien Enemies Act cannot be reviewed by the courts, so Obama could declare Bondi and Miller to be enemy aliens and they'd be SOL (In Miller's case he might live happily ever after eating sh*t in a foreign jail)

Going back to an earlier point, the administration had plenty of other options to deport these people. If I had to concoct a (somewhat) viable reason to invoke the Alien Enemies Act (AEA), conceivably the administration might have had some evidence suggestng that the people that were deported were being directed by the government of Venezuela to harm the U.S. If the information was gathered through means the government does not want to disclose in court, conceivably the government could decide to invoke the AEA. Off hand, this strikes me as impluasible for several reasons, but I guess it is theoretically possible (I'm not taking a stand on this, if someone has a good reason this is not even theoretically possible I'm all ears, so to speak).
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
Is that his limit or starting number. ;)
+1 for my executive powers to put Bannon in Guantanamo for 5 years, pooping in a hole on the floor of his cell. After all, if he's callous about innocent lives being swept up, well now he knows how it feels. :p
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
If there are immigration judges involved in this case so that due process is not being violated, the lawyers are apparently unaware of it.

>>>“We have no idea if there is any legal process by which we can challenge this, either in El Salvador or the United States,” said Lindsay Toczylowski, an attorney who represents a Venezuelan man in his early 30s who was seeking asylum from persecution for being gay and for his political activism against Nicolás Maduro's government. “This is the grossest human rights violation I have seen.” . . .

Toczylowski said she has been unable to reach her client. She said Immigration and Customs Enforcement told her this week it would not facilitate communication between her and her client, nor would it facilitate his return to the United States for his ongoing asylum case. . . .

Martin Rosenow, an immigration attorney in Miami, said he believes that a Venezuelan asylum-seeker he represents was quietly removed from the United States and is now most likely in the Salvadoran prison system.

“We have not been able to find him anywhere. All signs indicate that he’s there at the CECOT prison. We have no access to him, and we don’t know what’s going on,” he said.<<<

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/venezuelans-deported-el-salvador-detention-abuses-rcna197125

What good is an asylum case if the person is locked up abroad with no access to the U.S. court system?

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld some expedited deportations, so this is a legal option that is available to the administration, at least in some circumstances.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be deported. I am saying the laws need to be followed. If people don't like the laws, congress can change the laws (it seems to me that Trump is in a good position to push changes through right now, provided the changes are not too unpopular).
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
It is a bit ironic that Trump is extraditing people from foreign countries and bringing them into the U.S. on the basis that they are criminals, while simultaneously deporting people out of the U.S. on the basis that they are . . . drum roll . . . criminals:

>>>Mexican authorities say they have arrested Francisco Javier Román-Bardales, an alleged leader of the MS-13 gang who is on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. . . . “He was informed of the reason for his arrest, his legal rights were read to him, and he will be transferred to Mexico City, before the corresponding authority, and subsequently deported to the United States, where he is wanted,” the statement added.<<< (emphasis added)

 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I suspect the 'ratio of criminals coming vs those going' will be heavily skewed though. Regardless, in Trumps effort to avoid the Fed judges order, re Venezuelan gang members, apparently he included the Venezuelan soccer goalie because of an erroneous tattoo ?
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
I suspect the 'ratio of criminals coming vs those going' will be heavily skewed though. Regardless, in Trumps effort to avoid the Fed judges order, re Venezuelan gang members, apparently he included the Venezuelan soccer goalie because of an erroneous tattoo ?
Assuming the judge's agenda does not involve due process (ie free pass to stay in America).
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Assuming the judge's agenda does not involve due process (ie free pass to stay in America).
Due process does not imply a free pass to stay in America. The result of the due process might result in being allowed to stay in US or being deported.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
Due process does not imply a free pass to stay in America. The result of the due process might result in being allowed to stay in US or being deported.
I know. What I was saying is he thinks the "liberal" judges will bypass due process and let them stay.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Trump was asked (by a reporter from Fox news) yesterday when the proclamation invoking the Alien Enimies Act was signed. He responded I don’t know when it was signed, I didn’t sign it.” There is however a proclamation posted on the Federal Register that was purportedly signed by Trump.

The White House said later that Trump was referring to the original act itself. This is highly implausible given that the interviewer was discussing the judge’s questions about the timing. Also, why would Trump think he was being asked when he signed a law that went into effect over 200 years ago?

Trump was either confused (which raises questions about his mental clarity) or he flat out lied, forgetting that the signed proclamation was of record publicly. I suppose it’s possible he didn’t actually sign it and he had someone else insert his signature, but that could also be a problem

It’s a very curious situation
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
For the record(according to CNN) Judge Boasberg was a Bush (W) appointee
He was nominated to the federal bench by Obama, as far as I can see by googling around. You have another source?


Edit: Is this the CNN article you referred to? @Mr._Clark can give more info but that Boasberg was nominated to a DC local court could be because that DC (Washington) is not a state, but I'm swimming here.....

>>>Sources told CNN that they’ve never seen Boasberg as a partisan actor. He has handed down plenty of Trump-favorable rulings. Boasberg, 62, was appointed to the DC district court by President Barack Obama and was previously named to DC’s local courts by President George W. Bush. <<<

 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
He was nominated to the federal bench by Obama, as far as I can see by googling around. You have another source?


Edit: Is this the CNN article you referred to? @Mr._Clark can give more info but that Boasberg was nominated to a DC local court could be because that DC (Washington) is not a state, but I'm swimming here.....

>>>Sources told CNN that they’ve never seen Boasberg as a partisan actor. He has handed down plenty of Trump-favorable rulings. Boasberg, 62, was appointed to the DC district court by President Barack Obama and was previously named to DC’s local courts by President George W. Bush. <<<

I suppose I misheard last night on CNN of another Judge ? I thought it was one involved with the quick and covert deportation scheme Trump tried to pull off. It was during an interview when he appeared to throw Rubio under the bus ?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Edit: Is this the CNN article you referred to? @Mr._Clark can give more info but that Boasberg was nominated to a DC local court could be because that DC (Washington) is not a state, but I'm swimming here.....
Correct, DC has non-federal courts that are similar to state courts in terms of subject matter jurisdiction.

In general, the jurisdiction of federal courts is limited to issues of federal law, but federal courts can hear some state law claims in certain situations.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Another curious aspect of this is that the administration is reportedly considering invoking the state secrets doctrine to avoid disclosing information concerning the flights.

>>>Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche confirmed Cabinet-level discussions were happening Friday to discuss whether President Donald Trump should invoke the state-secrets privilege to avoid disclosing information about deportations of Venezuelans under the Alien Enemies Act, . . .

But Attorney General Pam Bondi led Justice Department lawyers in arguing that revealing information about the flights could lead to "catastrophic" harm to foreign affairs.<<<


AG Bondi:

>>>“They’re meddling in foreign affairs. They’re meddling in our government,” she said. “And the question should be, why is a judge trying to protect terrorists who have invaded our country over American citizens?”<<< (emphasis added)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5204161-bondi-judge-flight-deportation/

Okay, if these are terrorists that invaded our country, and disclosing information about the flights would catastrophic, why didn't the administration file in the Alien Terrorist Removal Court? No, I'm not making this up, there is a court specifically created by congress to deal with this exact situation (if the administration's claims are to be believed).

>>>In 1996 Congress created the Alien Terrorist Removal Court as a special court . . . The statute authorized the Attorney General to draft an application for removal of a suspected alien terrorist, and to submit the application to the removal court under seal. A single judge may grant the application upon a finding that the alien in question has been identified correctly as an alien terrorist present in the United States and that removal under other available legal means would pose a risk to national security.<<<


And, it's an expedited process:

>>>(d) Expeditious and confidential nature of proceedings
The provisions of section 103(c) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1803(c)) shall apply to removal proceedings in the same manner as they apply to proceedings under that Act [50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.].<<<


And, low and behold, there are procedures in place, helpfully titled "ALIEN TERRORIST REMOVAL PROCEDURES"


Here's what's required:

>>>(D) a statement of the facts and circumstances relied on by the Department of Justice to establish probable cause that—
(i) the alien is an alien terrorist;
(ii) the alien is physically present in the United States; and
(iii) with respect to such alien, removal under subchapter II would pose a risk to the national security of the United States.<<<

Gee, this looks the perfect law and the perfect court for this situation. Fast, confidential, no need to post a statement (supposedly) signed by the president at night a few hours before the planes were in flight, followed by a sh*t load of sanctimonious blather about terrorists, crazy judges, highly critical security information that supposedly cannot be disclosed to a court, etc.

Why not use this law? Perhaps Trump was concerned about potential due process issues? (BWA HA HA HA, after the process the administration actually used?)

I more or less expect Trump to blast the American people with huge loads of bullsh*t, but Bondi is a disgrace to the legal profession.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
I figured if Fox had the tv coverage of it than it was a performance for Trump's base.
 

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