Alien Enemies Act of 1798

D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
I'm concerned about the coverage on it from Fox because it feels to me like performance in sense of carrying out "swift" justice for the viewers. Plus Bannon saying if one or two accidentally get caught in the mix oh well. Not a terribly responsible thing to say and leaves and opening for concern.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
I stopped listening with the first sentenc
Well that's your loss. It's a decent and fairly comprehensive legal review of events. (I'm more irritated by the ads in the video than the hyperbole, but that's just me.)

C'mon, TT, you don't support unchecked autocracy over rule of law, do you?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
There are immigration judges for the deportee’s so due process is not being violated although it’s an expedited process
What is your source for this? What immigration judges are purportedly involved in the expedited process concerning the people in the prison in El Salvador?

The administration could have used 8 USC 1227, but they chose to use 50 USC 21.



There are expedited deportation processes that could have been used, but I have found nothing on the court record indicating that any such process was being used. Here's a link to the case:


The appearance it creates is that the administration did not have sufficient evidence to use one of the other deportation laws, so Trump made a very quiet proclamation and and then got the deportees out of the country as quickly as possible in an effort to avoid judicial review.

If a President can make findings of fact and deport people without judicial review, and if the courts are powerless to do anything about it once the people are locked up in a foreign prison, a president can deport and lock up anyone.

In some ways, this reminds me of the drone strikes that killed U.S. citizens

>>>Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki . . . was a 16-year-old United States citizen who was killed by a U.S. drone strike in Yemen. He was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki. . . . The U.S. drone strike that killed Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki was conducted under a policy approved by U.S. President Barack Obama.<<<


Now that I've torqued off people on both side of the R v D political divide (please people, we are Americans, we are not on these stupid teams the politicians form to advance their own self interests).

Perhaps a future president Obama during a 3rd or 4th term in office (after pulling off a Trumperoosky end run on the 22nd Amendment) will deport and lock up Bondi and Miller. Keep in mind that the government is arguing that the President's findings of fact under the Alien Enemies Act cannot be reviewed by the courts, so Obama could declare Bondi and Miller to be enemy aliens and they'd be SOL (In Miller's case he might live happily ever after eating sh*t in a foreign jail)

Going back to an earlier point, the administration had plenty of other options to deport these people. If I had to concoct a (somewhat) viable reason to invoke the Alien Enemies Act (AEA), conceivably the administration might have had some evidence suggestng that the people that were deported were being directed by the government of Venezuela to harm the U.S. If the information was gathered through means the government does not want to disclose in court, conceivably the government could decide to invoke the AEA. Off hand, this strikes me as impluasible for several reasons, but I guess it is theoretically possible (I'm not taking a stand on this, if someone has a good reason this is not even theoretically possible I'm all ears, so to speak).
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
Is that his limit or starting number. ;)
+1 for my executive powers to put Bannon in Guantanamo for 5 years, pooping in a hole on the floor of his cell. After all, if he's callous about innocent lives being swept up, well now he knows how it feels. :p
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
If there are immigration judges involved in this case so that due process is not being violated, the lawyers are apparently unaware of it.

>>>“We have no idea if there is any legal process by which we can challenge this, either in El Salvador or the United States,” said Lindsay Toczylowski, an attorney who represents a Venezuelan man in his early 30s who was seeking asylum from persecution for being gay and for his political activism against Nicolás Maduro's government. “This is the grossest human rights violation I have seen.” . . .

Toczylowski said she has been unable to reach her client. She said Immigration and Customs Enforcement told her this week it would not facilitate communication between her and her client, nor would it facilitate his return to the United States for his ongoing asylum case. . . .

Martin Rosenow, an immigration attorney in Miami, said he believes that a Venezuelan asylum-seeker he represents was quietly removed from the United States and is now most likely in the Salvadoran prison system.

“We have not been able to find him anywhere. All signs indicate that he’s there at the CECOT prison. We have no access to him, and we don’t know what’s going on,” he said.<<<

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/venezuelans-deported-el-salvador-detention-abuses-rcna197125

What good is an asylum case if the person is locked up abroad with no access to the U.S. court system?

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld some expedited deportations, so this is a legal option that is available to the administration, at least in some circumstances.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be deported. I am saying the laws need to be followed. If people don't like the laws, congress can change the laws (it seems to me that Trump is in a good position to push changes through right now, provided the changes are not too unpopular).
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
It is a bit ironic that Trump is extraditing people from foreign countries and bringing them into the U.S. on the basis that they are criminals, while simultaneously deporting people out of the U.S. on the basis that they are . . . drum roll . . . criminals:

>>>Mexican authorities say they have arrested Francisco Javier Román-Bardales, an alleged leader of the MS-13 gang who is on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list. . . . “He was informed of the reason for his arrest, his legal rights were read to him, and he will be transferred to Mexico City, before the corresponding authority, and subsequently deported to the United States, where he is wanted,” the statement added.<<< (emphasis added)

 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I suspect the 'ratio of criminals coming vs those going' will be heavily skewed though. Regardless, in Trumps effort to avoid the Fed judges order, re Venezuelan gang members, apparently he included the Venezuelan soccer goalie because of an erroneous tattoo ?
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
I suspect the 'ratio of criminals coming vs those going' will be heavily skewed though. Regardless, in Trumps effort to avoid the Fed judges order, re Venezuelan gang members, apparently he included the Venezuelan soccer goalie because of an erroneous tattoo ?
Assuming the judge's agenda does not involve due process (ie free pass to stay in America).
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Assuming the judge's agenda does not involve due process (ie free pass to stay in America).
Due process does not imply a free pass to stay in America. The result of the due process might result in being allowed to stay in US or being deported.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
Due process does not imply a free pass to stay in America. The result of the due process might result in being allowed to stay in US or being deported.
I know. What I was saying is he thinks the "liberal" judges will bypass due process and let them stay.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Trump was asked (by a reporter from Fox news) yesterday when the proclamation invoking the Alien Enimies Act was signed. He responded I don’t know when it was signed, I didn’t sign it.” There is however a proclamation posted on the Federal Register that was purportedly signed by Trump.

The White House said later that Trump was referring to the original act itself. This is highly implausible given that the interviewer was discussing the judge’s questions about the timing. Also, why would Trump think he was being asked when he signed a law that went into effect over 200 years ago?

Trump was either confused (which raises questions about his mental clarity) or he flat out lied, forgetting that the signed proclamation was of record publicly. I suppose it’s possible he didn’t actually sign it and he had someone else insert his signature, but that could also be a problem

It’s a very curious situation
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
For the record(according to CNN) Judge Boasberg was a Bush (W) appointee
He was nominated to the federal bench by Obama, as far as I can see by googling around. You have another source?


Edit: Is this the CNN article you referred to? @Mr._Clark can give more info but that Boasberg was nominated to a DC local court could be because that DC (Washington) is not a state, but I'm swimming here.....

>>>Sources told CNN that they’ve never seen Boasberg as a partisan actor. He has handed down plenty of Trump-favorable rulings. Boasberg, 62, was appointed to the DC district court by President Barack Obama and was previously named to DC’s local courts by President George W. Bush. <<<

 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
He was nominated to the federal bench by Obama, as far as I can see by googling around. You have another source?


Edit: Is this the CNN article you referred to? @Mr._Clark can give more info but that Boasberg was nominated to a DC local court could be because that DC (Washington) is not a state, but I'm swimming here.....

>>>Sources told CNN that they’ve never seen Boasberg as a partisan actor. He has handed down plenty of Trump-favorable rulings. Boasberg, 62, was appointed to the DC district court by President Barack Obama and was previously named to DC’s local courts by President George W. Bush. <<<

I suppose I misheard last night on CNN of another Judge ? I thought it was one involved with the quick and covert deportation scheme Trump tried to pull off. It was during an interview when he appeared to throw Rubio under the bus ?
 

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