Advice to beef up system

[Digital Froggy]

Here is my current system:

receiver: Yahama RX-V757
cdp: NAD c542
DVD: some cheap samsung model
mains: B&W 603 s3
center: B&W LCR600 s3
sub: Energy s10.3
surrounds: (none yet, space is at a premium right now )

It seems my receiver is just a little too week to power my current system to it's full capacity. I'm trying to decide between a pair of Outlaw model 2200 mblocks or a NAD c272 amp to power my mains. I would leave the receiver alone to power the center channel for the time being. Does this sound like a good plan? I'd like my system to double as a home theater and 2 channel music setup. Thanks for the replies.

Gary

 

[droeses58]

I personally would go with the Outlaws, as I have heard before that nad's quality has slipped, I also own the 1070 receiver and like that very much. Also it's an American company, [if that matters to you] and from what I've read they have great tech. support.

 

[tbewick]

Why don't you buy a better set of speakers?

 

[Digital Froggy]

Why don't you buy a better set of speakers?

I enjoy my current set of speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I enjoy my current set of speakers.

How do you know you have a problem? What are the symptoms?

 

[Digital Froggy]

While watching movies I seem to hear a small amount of clipping during audio peaks. I'm almost sure my Yamaha isn't cable of driving the speakers to their full potential.

 

[anamorphic96]

I personally would go with the Outlaws, as I have heard before that nad's quality has slipped, I also own the 1070 receiver and like that very much. Also it's an American company, [if that matters to you] and from what I've read they have great tech. support.

Im going to respectfully disagree especially with the 2 channel amps and integrated amps they put out. The 2 channel products have never had any serious QC issues. In fact I would say NAD is producing some of the best amps on the market right now. Especially there integrated amps.

The only area I would agree would be with the HT receivers they have put out. But even then I have heard of no issues in the past year or so. All of those older issues are resolved now.

The C272 is an awesome amp for the price and drive's practically any speaker with authority and grace. I have heard this amp with the 603's and its a killer combo. It's definatley worth a listen.

Outlaw is also a great company as well and the 1070 as well as the mono blocks are quite nice.

Cheers

 

[tbewick]

Hello Digital Froggy

How do you know that it's not the speakers just sounding bad because you're pushing them too hard? The B&W 603's are good speakers but they're hardly top of the range. I know B&W love to put stuff on the spec sheet like 'less than 1% H.D. at 90 dB' but those specifications can be misleading.

If I can remember they aren't full-full range are they? they go down to around 40-50 Hz? According to Stereophile, speakers that received good reviews tend to roll-off their treble if they aren't true full-range. B&W have speakers that end around 50 Hz and go all they way up to 30 kHz. It's not very surprising they have that very sharp sound to them, which in my experience sounds quite tiring.

Small amounts of clipping is inaudible. You might be right in thinking that a really high quality amp (like a Krell - B&W test their kit on Krell) could push your speakers even higher, but you'd probably get much better sound by buying a better set of speakers. You have to spend a lot of money to get a small improvement in how loud your amplifier will go. A 200 W amp will only be able to put out a few extra dB's over a 40 W one and will cost much more money.

 

[Digital Froggy]

I suppose a guy isn't going to find much for around $1000 a pair then?

 

[anamorphic96]

Where do you have the B&W's crossed over. You might want to try using a higher crossover point if your running them full range. Maybe 60 or 80hz. This could take some of the load off the amp and give you more headroom.

 

[Snap]

I suppose a guy isn't going to find much for around $1000 a pair then?

hmmmm yeah you can. Phase Tech Velocity series are 550 each for the V-12's and $400 each for the V-10's The V-10's are only 2 way though.

Awesome speakers for sure.

As far as amps go...earthquake is getting rid of all the Nova 3 chan amps, they are only going to make 5 and 7 chan now. You can get a Nova 3 chan for really good pricing right now.

I have not uses the NAD or Outlaw so I am not going to comment either way on those.

My Amp pref is
1. Earthquake
2. Parasound

The 757 only has 100 watts. It is very possible that the amp is having a hard time driving those speakers. Do you have the same problem in 2 chan mode?

 

[tbewick]

For $1000 you could get an excellent pair of Tannoy speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

While watching movies I seem to hear a small amount of clipping during audio peaks. I'm almost sure my Yamaha isn't cable of driving the speakers to their full potential.

With a sensitivity of 90 dB spl, 8 ohms, a 100 watt amp, and a sub I don't see a problem unless you are at the extreme edge of volumes?

 

[mulester7]

With a sensitivity of 90 dB spl, 8 ohms, a 100 watt amp, and a sub I don't see a problem unless you are at the extreme edge of volumes?

.....what he's at, is the extreme edge of wattage RMS-CONTINUOUS ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN....or mine would be....at the edge, runnin' out of continuous rms where things slow down and go into clipping and irratic cone movement.....climb out that hole, Mtrycrafts.....(third time).....

 

[Snap]

yeah Mule....that is what I was hinting at when I was asking about the 2 chan operation, and stuff. I agree I think that the amo in the 757 is running at max get it!

 

[mtrycrafts]

.....what he's at, is the extreme edge of wattage RMS-CONTINUOUS ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN....or mine would be....at the edge, runnin' out of continuous rms where things slow down and go into clipping and irratic cone movement.....climb out that hole, Mtrycrafts.....(third time).....

All channels driven? To 100 Watts, 110 dB spl???

Since when are all channels driven to the same max power at the same exact instant? No such evidence is in sight, hence, this silliness of the all channel driven is urban myth no matter how you slice it. 100 watts with those speakers is 110dB spl, not to count the dynamic headroom that may not be much, a dB maybe. No, I seriously question his observations. Maybe he needs 1000 watt amp???

 

[mtrycrafts]

yeah Mule....that is what I was hinting at when I was asking about the 2 chan operation, and stuff. I agree I think that the amo in the 757 is running at max get it!

Did you ever measure the spl you are listeing to? Or, those clipping peaks? Maybe there are other issues that are the real problems.

 

[mulester7]

All channels driven? To 100 Watts, 110 dB spl???

Since when are all channels driven to the same max power at the same exact instant? No such evidence is in sight, hence, this silliness of the all channel driven is urban myth no matter how you slice it. 100 watts with those speakers is 110dB spl, not to count the dynamic headroom that may not be much, a dB maybe. No, I seriously question his observations. Maybe he needs 1000 watt amp???

....Mtry, are we back on whether with 5 channel stereo, the channels don't all hit the current-draw at the same time?....and notes aren't held?......

 

[Digital Froggy]

I have them crossed over at 80Hz.

In two channel mode listening to music the system doesn't seem like it's working too hard.

I know they're not top of the line speakers, but from the ones I auditioned in that price range, I liked the B&W's the best. I do plan on upgrading sometime in the near future. I just figured this system would be a good enough for a beginner.

I think I did my homework properly before I bought the system. I just didn't walk into a Best Buy and plop down cash on a system because some teenager convinced me it was good.

I read somewhere that driving a speaker with good clean power from a dedicated amp will enhance the sound and cut down on some of the listener fatigue caused by slight distortion. As tbewick said, part of the problem may have to do with the 603's design. My living room acoustics could be to blame as well. Maybe I'm a little in the dark on this matter so advice is much appreciated.

 

[tbewick]

I've used the B&W 601's and found them to be a little too aggressive in the treble for my tastes. B&W speakers do have the reputation of being very crisp sounding. They might also be more electronically demanding of your amplifier, but even still I think you'd have to have the volume turned up extremely high to having any clipping. to I recommend Tannoy's as they sound warmer and smoother. They are also more efficient and less demanding of your amplifier.

In regards to acoustics, I'd recommend corner placement, which is suggested in an Audioholics article I read some time ago. This placement stops side wall reflections. It might be worthwhile checking to see if anything is rattling around in the room, like glass or metal objects, as this can sound like speaker distortion. As many absorptive objects as possible in the room helps to dampen the sound. Bookshelves and bookcases help to act as diffusers. Lowering the treble control can help to reduce speaker brightness at the expense of some detail.