Advice Request

[2cogito]

Hello,

I’m building my first 5.1 setup and would appreciate some advice.

I purchased (but have not yet received) the Yamaha 5.1 speaker set NS-SP7800PN for $299 on Monday ($300 off MSRP from Best Buy).


I’m interested in pairing these with the Onkyo TX-SR606 A/V Receiver for $320 via Amazon.

However, I’ve just seen the Onkyo HT-S6100 (home theater system) which looks to have a receiver almost identical to the TX-SR606 (HT-R667)bundled with it for $580.

What’s the most reliable way for me to tell the quality difference between the two speaker sets? Does anyone here have experience with either set?

My purposes for this system are for a projector for movies and for music. Audio quality with respect to music is a priority.

Thank you for any help. And I'm sorry there are no links, my post count didn't allow it.

Scott

 

[2cogito]

Speaker comparison

Here are the specs of the two speakers in lieu of links. I've read that frequency response isn't a good indicator of speaker performance. Is there a way, without first hand experience, to judge a quality difference for music from these specs? Thanks.


1. Yamaha NS-SP7800PN

Description 5.1 Speaker Package
Type 2-way Bass Reflex Design
Front Speakers (Woofer, Tweeter Size) Dual 2-1/4" + 3/4"
Center Speaker (Woofer, Tweeter Size) Dual 2-1/4" + 3/4"
Surround Speakers (Woofer, Tweeter Size) Dual 2-1/4" + 3/4"
Included Speaker Stands
Magnetic Shielding •
Input Power (Maximum / Nominal) 100W / 30W
Frequncey Response 30 Hz - 35 kHz
Sensitivity 83 dB/2.83 V/1 m
Impedance 6 Ohms
Subwoofer Advanced YST II
Power Output 130W
Driver Size 6-1/2"

2. Onkyo SKS HT-240

Front Speakers

Type 2-Way, Bass Reflex
Woofer 3 1/8" Cone x 2
Tweeter 1" Balanced-Dome
Frequency Response 55 Hz-35 kHz
Sensitivity -
Max. Power 100 W
Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
Dimensions (W x H x D) -
Weight -

Surround Speakers

Type 2-Way, Bass Reflex
Woofer 3 1/8" Cone
Tweeter 1" Balanced-Dome
Frequency Response 65 Hz-35 kHz
Sensitivity -
Max. Power -
Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
Dimensions (W x H x D) -
Weight -

Center Speaker

Type 2-Way, Bass Reflex
Woofer 3 1/8" Cone x 2
Tweeter 1" Balanced-Dome
Frequency Response 65 Hz-35 kHz
Sensitivity -
Max. Power -
Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
Dimensions (W x H x D) -
Weight -

Subwoofer

Type Bass Reflex Powered
Woofer 8" Cone
Tweeter -
Frequency Response 27 Hz-150 kHz
Sensitivity 15 kohm/Line
Max. Power 150 W
Nominal Impedance -
Dimensions (W x H x D) -
Weight -

 

[Davemcc]

Audio quality with respect to music is a priority.

I haven't had the chance to listen to either of these systems but from past experience with multiple HTIB's, I think the condition highlighted above will be a problem for both systems. Is there any way I can convince you to rethink the selection process with closer consideration of your expectations. You may be better off starting out with a receiver and a decent pair of bookshelf speakers, then expanding on that setup over time into a much better quality system by adding a sub, center, adding front tower speakers and moving the bookshelf speakers to the rear position.

 

[2cogito]

Thanks for the response, Davemcc. I'm open to rethinking the speaker selection.

The use of speakers would be most often for music. However, my reason for purchasing a 5.1 set was because we host movie discussion nights (and my old speakers aren't handling it) on our projector. I was hoping to find something ready for that purpose as well. I've learned that most HTIB + DVD combos are sub-par regarding music. I was hoping that getting a better (but still entry/upper-entry level) receiver with a separate speaker package would be sufficient for the job. I don't have an LCD TV, PS3, etc. to worry about. My projector has only component and S-video outputs. My music sources are CD's and and mp3 player. Future-proofing would be nice, but I would prioritize good sound if I could have only one.

What sort of other recommendations would you have within a budget of $5-600?

 

[Midcow2]

Very good advice from Davemcc

I haven't had the chance to listen to either of these systems but from past experience with multiple HTIB's, I think the condition highlighted above will be a problem for both systems. Is there any way I can convince you to rethink the selection process with closer consideration of your expectations. You may be better off starting out with a receiver and a decent pair of bookshelf speakers, then expanding on that setup over time into a much better quality system by adding a sub, center, adding front tower speakers and moving the bookshelf speakers to the rear position.

Davemcc gives very good advice. The receiver you selected is good. So let's say you can get Onkyo TX-SR606 A/V Receiver for $320 from Amazon. How much more are you willing to spend on speakers? You best sound comes from spending money on speakers; a good estmate is to spend 1/2 to 2/3s of budget on speakers. Some think of how much more you can spend on speakers. The most important are the fronts. then it is good to get a center that matches to maintain timbre (seamless front sound). Rear surrounds add presence and enhancement and can be added later and don't have to match the fronts and center. A subwoofer can also be added later. Get a good sub though and you can get a pretty good sub, the Dayton Sub-120 HT for as little as $139.90 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-635 Other better subs from SVS or Hsu cost $400 and more.

For your system I would get some very good bookshelf speakers at $219/pair , Cambridge Audio S30 and the Dayto sub total cost $348.90
http://spearitsound.amazonwebstore.com/Cambridge-Audio-S30-Speakers-Natural-Oak/M/B00196SJOI.htm?utm_campaign=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=froogle

Then later when you save $500-$1000 buy some more expensive front speakers and center and move the Cambridge Audio S30s to rear surround.

Just my idea instead of Yamaha HTIB, your may be different. Audition the Yamaha with your reccier and make sure it sounds like you think it will.

Good Luck,

MidCow2



i

 

[markw]

Dave and da boyz are leading you in the right direction.

Consider going your own route. You WILL be better off

You can get a A PAIR of Cambridge Sound Works Model 6's for $99. That's TWO really, really good (particularly for the price) speakers!

http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=spk_bookshelf&item=53CW0115AA000

I've heard these at a friends house. They are good! ...VERY good.

Heck, for that price you may want to get two pairs for $200 and see what they (CSW) recommend for a matching center channel speaker. Odds are you can get five matched speakers for around $300 or a bit more.

If money is tight, you can always add a sub later. These should sound good enough that you won't feel cheated out of an enjoyable experience, particularly as far as music is concerned.

Receivers that are more than suitible for your needs can be had from anywhere between $150 (or so) on up. What you've got your eye on looks more than up to the task at hand.

As for a DVD player, well, these are basically commodities nowadays, available from virtually anywhere from $20 on up. All will handle the basics, particularly considering your projector situation.

So, that budget you've got in mind can really go a long way if given a little thought...

 

[strube]

If you have access to a Paradigm dealer and have the budget, I would highly recommend 1 of 3 Paradigm Cinema 5.1 HTIB systems (just 5 speakers and a sub, no amp). These are the Cinema 70, 90, and 110 CT systems, in black or silver. I have the Cinema 110 CT and paid around $720 for it (MSRP $799), and I believe it is great value for the money. They have the same drivers (albeit smaller ones) than my monitor speakers for my dedicated home theater. The system sounds very clear and neutral with music or movies, and would match very well with your receiver. I have them paired with a Denon AVR-686 and can say that I have never been at the point where I had to sacrifice clarity for volume. I believe the 70 CT and 90 CT systems have MSRP's of $499 and $649 respectively, and can usually be had for a bit less at a good dealer. The 70CT system certainly comes closer to fitting into your mentioned budget, but if you can swing the 90 system, I would go with that because you get a bigger sub, as well as ADP surrounds.

Edit: If you don't have a dealer nearby, I believe at least the Cinema 70CT and Cinema 110 CT systems can be ordered from 6ave by telephone.

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDCINE110CTBK

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDCINEMA70CT

Here's a link with some brief info about each system:

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/128769.html

 

[Davemcc]

I have the Paradigm Cinema in my bedroom system, 3 x Cinema 220 for the front and 110 surrounds (until recently, I even ran them with a Denon 686 like you). I see a couple of problems with this idea, the first being that the speaker budget is only about $300 give or take. Second, the Cinema Series doesn't have the extension to meet any decent sub crossover for proper music listening. They are not a bad suggestion when on-wall installation is preferred and they aren't bad for music if you have a sub that can be crossed over well above 100Hz. I obviously like them but in this particular case, the Cinema don't seem to fit the criteria as well as the other suggestions.

 

[strube]

Second, the Cinema Series doesn't have the extension to meet any decent sub crossover for proper music listening. They are not a bad suggestion when on-wall installation is preferred and they aren't bad for music if you have a sub that can be crossed over well above 100Hz. I obviously like them but in this particular case, the Cinema don't seem to fit the criteria as well as the other suggestions.

I would certainly agree with this, my music-listening comes second to my movie-watching (plus, the 10-or-so peoples' systems I have set up had the same bias), so I suppose put it first simply by nature, but I can't say that the system is bad with music by any means. It suits my needs at least, and sure beats the Klipsch, Sony, Bose, HK, or LG HTiB systems I have heard. I have heard Onkyo HTiB systems and don't remember being dazzled by them, but I don't remember them being crappy by any means either.

My primary goal was to recommend a complete system (including sub) that would be superior to most HTiB systems. Unfortunately, only the Cinema 70CT system would come close to the OP's budget, and without an AVR, certainly breaks it by a bit. Being the young student type that I am, I suppose I don't have enough experience to recommend anything else in this price range.

 

[j_garcia]

You should look here:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49257

For $30 more you can get the 706S. A few extra ponies and preamp outputs.

 

[2cogito]

Thanks for all the responses. I've checked out the Cambridge Soundworks site. They have a lot of deals in their clearance section on B-stock and open box. Any thoughts on this route?

Here's a possibility for $400

Cambridge SoundWorks Open Box - Newton Series S200 MultiPole Surround Speaker (Pair), Slate $69.99

Cambridge SoundWorks Open Box - Newton Series M50 Bookshelf Speakers (Pair), Slate $79.99

Cambridge SoundWorks Newton Series II MC155 Main/Center/Surround Speakers - Black Each $119.99

Cambridge SoundWorks Open Box - BassCube 10S Powered Subwoofer $129.99

 

[2cogito]

Although going this route may necessitating downgrading the receiver to the TX-SR506 for budgetary reasons. I should speak with my wife . That route would be at a 1/3 avr to 2/3 speaker budget ratio recommended. Will this receiver be adequate for these CSW speakers?

Thanks again for the help, you've got a responsive forum.

 

[j_garcia]

Those Cambridge speakers are OK. The M50 being the best deal and probably the best speaker of those listed IMO.

 

[2cogito]

Thanks, J_Garcia. Do you rate the M50's higher than the Model Six's? Also, I noticed the avr deals you linked to have gone up. I no longer see the 706S for $350.

 

[j_garcia]

Deal was probably a short term thing, "cyber" holiday deals. Sorry.

Yes, I'd say the M50s are better than the Model 6. I bought the Model 6 and returned it because I wasn't impressed with it, despite their accolades. The M50s and M60s are good bookshelf speakers.

Note that the speakers mentioned previously are Cambridge Audio, not Cambridge Soundworks - two completely different companies, but for the price those M50s are worth it IMO.

 

[2cogito]

Thanks, again. I take it the Cambridge Audio are superior to the Cambridge Soundworks?

Can bookshelf speakers like the M50's perform well in a surround sound setup (with 4)? I added the Newton Series S200 because they were in the HTIB bundle that Cambridge Soundworks recommended. Is the only advantage wider dispersion? Is that a significant one?

No worries on the deal, thanks for mentioning it. It would have been hard to pass up.

 

[j_garcia]

I haven't heard the Cambridge Audio S30s, but I know their other gear is all top notch and the review here of the S30 was quite exemplary. I'd expect they will outclass the M50s. That doesn't mean the M50s aren't good, it just means that Cambridge Audio is better Cambridge Audio is a smaller British manufacturer and they tend toward the mid-to-higher end stuff, while Cambridge Soundworks is a smaller US company after the low-to-mid fi home theater stuff.

I personally prefer a monopole like the M50 for surround duty (my fronts and surrounds are all the same speakers), but if you intend to mount on the wall, the S200s should do fine. Some prefer the diffused sound of multipole surrounds, but I do not, so that is a personal preference. It also depends on your room - if you don't have complete side walls on both sides for proper "bouncing" of the sound, then multipole may not be the best way to go either.

 

[2cogito]

Regarding the monopole vs. multipole question, did your comment about "complete side walls" refer to a 4 wall room or a 3 wall room? My living room is a 3 wall room which backs into a dining/kitchen. Does that make a difference?

 

[j_garcia]

If the back wall is completely open, then it could be a problem. If it is only a doorway, it will be fine.

 

[2cogito]

Thanks again, the backwall is completely open. That may nix the S200surround speakers.

If I were to go with the S30s, but I can't afford four of them, do you think two M50's would pair with them adequately (for rear speakers)? Is there a spec that informs how to tell when two different sets of bookshelves would work well together?