ADVICE NEED ON DIY SUPER MONITOR SPEAKER BUILD -----OPTIONS AN GUIDANCE

johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
so i need so opinions this is a concept opinion for a build my aim is to be like a bi pole design like
Definitive Technology BP8B

were they had a woofer and tweeter on both the front and back of the speaker my concept build

both the cabinets have .75in thick walls im building them from 1.5in layers of Pressure Treated Lumber , reinforced with five Steel Pan Head Phillips Screws 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 14" Long

an Loctite PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive


this ones dims are

29in tall by 11.25in wide by 15in deep with inturnal dims 27.5in high by 9.75in wide by 12in deep with a net air space of 1.767 ft3 these is with driver displacment factored in



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my design is to almost the same but

with two 10in passive rads one front and back at the top of build an a 10in subwoofer at
the bottom on the front with 4 full range 4in drivers in the middle two front and two back my current custom built

xover a a two way at 500hz with a 4ohm input at 300watts the all the full
range wired to 4ohm with a constant 80watts an the sub wired to 2 ohms with a constant 220watts both rads are to

be tuned to 14.8hz an the net inturnal ft3 is for 2cubic feet,, I know that with most bi pole speakers that it needs to be at least a foot or two out from the wall this build because the design is 15in deep an my

room space is limited I could only have it 4in from the wall unless I used it as a front speaker currently this is slated for a surround

this ones spec are 33.5in tall by 11.25in wide by 13.5in deep with inturnal dims 32in high by 9.75in wide by 10.5in deep with a net air space of 1.819 ft3 these is with driver displacment factored in
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This concept design is also for either front or surround use my listening area is a total 15ft by 15ft by 8ft my seating is dead center my sofa is total 6.75ft long my old an previous sides were the f-30 floor standing speakers an they were 15in deep and up against the wall which gave me about 24in of clearance to walk by
This has the same rad and woofer layout an same wiring but all four full range drivers are on the front

fyi the scape wood left over from the supply to build either of these is what im going to use for building the feet or stands

the grey or gold part of the pixs are concret blocks to add weight an height

Any advice or guidance or opinions on this would be helpful thanks

anything worth doing is worth overdoing :nerd2:
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Have you put any research into the planned design? Your driver layout is likely to cause issues with imaging and dispersion. DO you have individual drivers picked out? I don;t even begin to think about enclosures much until I have my driver design and integration figured out. That is step 1 generally. From there you can think about enclosure layout/design.

The only consideration I have at an early phase about the enclosure is what type of volume the woofer sections need to operate with my intended purpose. If the volume is too large I need to pick a different woofer.

Start first by asking yourself these questions:

What is the goal for your project?
What do you want the speaker to do that you cannot find or have not experienced today?
What are the physical limitations of where the speaker will be used? Or how large of a speaker can you or your family members live with?
What type of budget are you working with?
What types of individual speakers/drivers for your design have you considered? DO those required volumes coupled together exceed my physical location limitations?
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
in regards to imaging and dispersion i dont have any software to run those sims all iv got is rew an winisd an iv

got a umik-1 for spl an room correction calculations / corrections

an i do have all my fullrange drivers but not the means to properly powerthem yet for a cal test maybe if i get one

of those mini amps like the Lepai LP1601S as of right not im still waiting on my xovers to be delivered

would cutting a mockup of the baffle for the fullrange drivers an running them off a Lepai LP1601S an using rew an the umik help give me an idea on how the imaging and dispersion might be help

im still waiting on my subs to arrive

at the moment these are the units i have FaitalPRO 4FE35 4" Professional Full-Range Woofer 16 Ohm

Part # 294-1125


fyi in winisd i ploted a basic fq response for both the sub a the FaitalPROs

to plan power input ,speaker distance an cabinet size an type an iv got the fullrange drivres Attenuated by -4db

vlcsnap-2020-08-14-00h16m03s076.jpg
 

Attachments

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
You bought off the shelf xovers? Or active?
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
The problem with imaging/dispersion relates to lateral placement of the full-rangers on the baffle. That's a recipe for all sorts of lobing/comb filtering.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
This project is headed for disaster. You might think about reading this book before investing any more time into this project. If you are going to spend time and money into building a speaker, might as well make it a good speaker. You might just look at plans from guys like Jeff Bagby or Matt Grant and stick with those.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
This project is headed for disaster. You might think about reading this book before investing any more time into this project. If you are going to spend time and money into building a speaker, might as well make it a good speaker. You might just look at plans from guys like Jeff Bagby or Matt Grant and stick with those.
I agree with everything Shady just said.

Depending on your comfort level, the Murphy and the Weems books on speaker design are much more introductory, but good and worth reading for the introductory knowledge. The Alden book is very good, and more advanced than those first two. Dickason's LDC is top of the heep, but you need to be prepared as he gets very technical. :)
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
You bought off the shelf xovers? Or active?
the xovers are custom made i had them made to these specs a 4ohms at 300watt crossed at 500

with 220watts to 2 ohms an 80watts to the highs at 4ohms

with a -6db db attenuation

i settled on the four 4in fullrange drivers per cabinet primarily because of how big i wanted to make the box an

i was trying to find a driver that matched db Sensitivity of the prefured sub that could take 80 watts rms at 4ohms

an reach down to 500hz but still cover the highs an over all not cost more then 180 $ per
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
the xovers are custom made i had them made to these specs a 4ohms at 300watt crossed at 500

with 220watts to 2 ohms an 80watts to the highs at 4ohms

with a -3db db attenuation

i settled on the four 4in fullrange drivers per cabinet primarily because of how big i wanted to make the box an

i was trying to find a driver that matched db Sensitivity of the prefured sub that could take 80 watts rms at 4ohms

an reach down to 500hz but still cover the highs an over all not cost more then 180 $ per
Custom with the specific box in mind....thought you couldn't model that? How did you work out baffle step compensation for example?
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
i might sound the noob but ill i used to model was winisd the box is primarily modeled for the sub as that the full range driver at least from winisd size didnt seem to impact

but then again i didnt consider imaging/dispersion an lateral placement issues

everthing in my design is based on what i can cram into a budget of 400$ chucks

an the fact my back isnt in good shape so a big big tower the might better accommodate certain driver layout

just isnt somthing i can do

id go for using soundeasy 23 to model everthing but to pull the trigger on such a buy is dicey for me

last time i bought some software like it to design my subs the supplyed database didnt have the one i wanted

but that before i learned about the Dayton Audio DATS V3 Computer Based Speaker & Audio Component Test System

but for me that still a gamble to buy i cant buy an then return over an over trying to find somthing that works

if ther was a list of the driver database that soundeasy 23 has that would help me choice to buy
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
does anyone soundeasy 23 an does it have a drive database for modeling an does it have the FaitalPRO 4FE35 4" Professional Full-Range Woofer 16 Ohm an the Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" Reference HO DVC Subwoofer
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Your existing design might be OK if you have already sustained severe high-frequency hearing loss. Those full-range drivers are bound to have very harsh treble and major beaming issues at higher frequencies, and that isn't even getting into the comb-filtering issues that such a driver layout would incur. I don't see how all frequencies above 4 or 5kHz wouldn't be completely wrecked. I don't mean to sound harsh here, but that design looks to maximize SPL with sound quality as barely a concern at all. It's a tall order to make something that is full range with high SPL for under $200 each that is good.
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
Your existing design might be OK if you have already sustained severe high-frequency hearing loss. Those full-range drivers are bound to have very harsh treble and major beaming issues at higher frequencies, and that isn't even getting into the comb-filtering issues that such a driver layout would incur. I don't see how all frequencies above 4 or 5kHz wouldn't be completely wrecked. I don't mean to sound harsh here, but that design looks to maximize SPL with sound quality as barely a concern at all. It's a tall order to make something that is full range with high SPL for under $200 each that is good.
in you opition would ditching the four 4in per cab an going for one 10in work far better

heres my updated concept using the same sub but with a Peerless by Tymphany NE265W-04 10" Paper Cone NE Woofer 4 Ohm

with the same 80 watts input to the highs

an do you think this baffle is sufficient
Untitled v309.jpg

the top is the front with the dayton sub an the peerless is the sealed compartment

the bottom of the pic is were the twin 10in rads go
Untitled v300.jpg


Untitled v309.jpg

the inturnal dims are 26.25in tall 9.5in wide by 18in deep

the outer is 0.875in thicker on the bottom ,top an sides the back an front are 1.5in thick with a flush cut down
to .5in
 
Guiria

Guiria

Senior Audioholic
Do you have the tools, space for DIY builds? Have you ever built a loudspeaker before or have wood working skills? I ask the questions as a fellow DIYer wanting your first project to be a success and not biting off more than you can chew. If this is your first splash into woodworking and speaker design then maybe a smaller 2-way and separate subwoofer or something like that might be a more manageable project. You also mentioned some back issues and diy speakers are labor intensive so consider your health before jumping in.

I took a hiatus for about 8 years from the hobby and jumped back into it with a big 3-way tower design and its coming together but not without some hiccups and feelings of “did I overdo it for my first project in 8 years”.

That being said I envy your cad skills and I think if you stick with it and take consideration from the advice in the forums you’ll end up with a good project.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
in you opition would ditching the four 4in per cab an going for one 10in work far better

heres my updated concept using the same sub but with a Peerless by Tymphany NE265W-04 10" Paper Cone NE Woofer 4 Ohm

with the same 80 watts input to the highs

an do you think this baffle is sufficient
View attachment 38861
the top is the front with the dayton sub an the peerless is the sealed compartment

the bottom of the pic is were the twin 10in rads go
View attachment 38862

View attachment 38863
the inturnal dims are 26.25in tall 9.5in wide by 18in deep

the outer is 0.875in thicker on the bottom ,top an sides the back an front are 1.5in thick with a flush cut down
to .5in
In that design, all you would have is a bass driver with a midrange driver. That midrange driver is going to reproduce treble terribly.

I think the best that you can do for a full-range high-output speaker is to use a coaxial driver like these. You need to load them into large cabinets with porting around 40 Hz or so. I would get in contact wit the manufacturers about appropriate crossover design and enclosure design. WinISD is not sufficient for this business, it is meant for subwoofers.
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
Do you have the tools, space for DIY builds? Have you ever built a loudspeaker before or have wood working skills? I ask the questions as a fellow DIYer wanting your first project to be a success and not biting off more than you can chew. If this is your first splash into woodworking and speaker design then maybe a smaller 2-way and separate subwoofer or something like that might be a more manageable project. You also mentioned some back issues and diy speakers are labor intensive so consider your health before jumping in.

I took a hiatus for about 8 years from the hobby and jumped back into it with a big 3-way tower design and its coming together but not without some hiccups and feelings of “did I overdo it for my first project in 8 years”.

That being said I envy your cad skills and I think if you stick with it and take consideration from the advice in the forums you’ll end up with a good project.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
thanks an yes iv got some ok wood working skill an gear

an a ok amount of space

its just have the wood delivered is hell ,the shipping cost ,an because i dont have truck an my car is small
an getting it into my house with my bad back is tough but doable

but other then that im good

iv got to get some metal stencils made up for a router guide that allows me to make precise cuts

as i build all my cabs from layers of wood

an heavy duty long screws
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
oh an i did notice that that is not a full range 10in

for some damn reason i didnt see
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
two questions

is this really a full range PRV Audio 5MR450-NDY-4 5" Midrange Neodymium Woofer 4 Ohm

an has anyone heard of

www.rgsound.it

is it good is it legit
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
two questions

is this really a full range PRV Audio 5MR450-NDY-4 5" Midrange Neodymium Woofer 4 Ohm

an has anyone heard of

www.rgsound.it

is it good is it legit
There are very few decent full-range drivers. Good ones are outside of your price range and wouldn't have the kind of output that you want since you are looking at pro-audio drivers. Look at the response on that PRV driver, its upper midrange and treble response is just awful. You should really just rule out full-range drivers for your design criteria.
 
johnny45

johnny45

Junior Audioholic
my amp has got a good parametric eq an highcut trim controls for room correction that can compensate for that crazy high end
i think for the cost an my budget im going to give those prvs a go
 

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