Adjusting subwoofer levels after Audyssey.

astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
Apologies if I've posted this in the wrong section.

This has been bothering me for awhile now, I've always noticed after Audyssey has done it's thing, EQ, distances, level match, I find the bass to be pretty lacking tbh, this is without Dynamic EQ too. I normally listen to everything from -25db to -20db.

Although I understand that Dynamic EQ adjusts things to be hearable at below reference levels, are there other ways to eachieve this without Dynamic EQ. Do I adjust subwoofer levels by a certain amount, if so how much? Maybe the bass tone control, which goes to a max of +6db. I'm aiming not to adjust bass not for preference, but to kind of achieve a flat bass level to my my/our ears if that makes sense. Any ideas, or is DEQ really the best option.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
A lot of folks bump up the sub level trim by 2 or 3 db. If you really want know what's going on a UMIK mic and REW are great tools to have for audio enthusiasts. Depending on your room Audyssey can do a fantastic job, but there's only so much it can do if you're dealing with room modes and nulls from standing waves. Sub placement is pretty important to for a linear response too. Your room is wholly in charge of bass frequencies and careful placement can go a long way. Have you heard of the sub crawl?

What do you have against DEQ?

 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Adjusting the “bass” tone won’t do anything for sub trim. You need to go into the speaker menu and bump the subwoofer level up. Raising it by 3-5db is common.
Also what is the associated equipment? And how big is the room?
 
astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
A lot of folks bump up the sub level trim by 2 or 3 db. If you really want know what's going on a UMIK mic and REW are great tools to have for audio enthusiasts. Depending on your room Audyssey can do a fantastic job, but there's only so much it can do if you're dealing with room modes and nulls from standing waves. Sub placement is pretty important to for a linear response too. Your room is wholly in charge of bass frequencies and careful placement can go a long way. Have you heard of the sub crawl?

What do you have against DEQ?

Not much against DEQ only that I listen to alot of varied things often, movies, music, video games, YouTube so, if I left it at a reference level offset of 0db the bass gets pretty heavy so, a lot of up and down adjustments of that setting, difficult to figure out a good middle ground other than finding out if maybe upping the sub by a certain amount.

And about the room, it's about 4M X 5M.
Equipment is a Denon AVR 2313 receiver, a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 2s and Bronze centre the a BK Double Gem Subwoofer.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Not much against DEQ only that I listen to alot of varied things often, movies, music, video games, YouTube so, if I left it at a reference level offset of 0db the bass gets pretty heavy so, a lot of up and down adjustments of that setting, difficult to figure out a good middle ground other than finding out if maybe upping the sub by a certain amount.

And about the room, it's about 4M X 5M.
Equipment is a Denon AVR 2313 receiver, a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 2s and Bronze centre the a BK Double Gem Subwoofer.
I prefer DEQ 10 myself and it's appropriate for pretty much everything I listen to, which is also very diverse, ranging from movies to metalcore to country and everything in between. Did you follow my link for the sub crawl? I know it looks goofy but it really is effective in helping you find good placement.

A quick glance at BK's site shows me the double gem is a dual 10" sealed design with a 300w amp, but nothing about the frequency response. You might realize better results with a ported model. Sealed designs in general tend to struggle with deeper frequencies.
 
astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
I prefer DEQ 10 myself and it's appropriate for pretty much everything I listen to, which is also very diverse, ranging from movies to metalcore to country and everything in between. Did you follow my link for the sub crawl? I know it looks goofy but it really is effective in helping you find good placement.

A quick glance at BK's site shows me the double gem is a dual 10" sealed design with a 300w amp, but nothing about the frequency response. You might realize better results with a ported model. Sealed designs in general tend to struggle with deeper frequencies.
I will give the sub crawl a try, my partner already knows how goofy this hobby can be sometimes :)

Why -10 offset though, what's the pros and cons of that setting over the other -5, and -15. Going by the best I've learned about mixing levels, obviously movies standard is known quite well, TV programs and, I'm assuming TV series as well, are just 10db below movies. Music being unknown or varied, but I have heard mixers for music using 85db. Games is a mystery, I just always assumed they use a similar mix level to music as the volume of music to games usually seems similar.
 
astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
Also the sealed sub thing Vs ported was something I definitely overlooked, looked at everything else but that. Too attached to it now though, he's a beauty
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I will give the sub crawl a try, my partner already knows how goofy this hobby can be sometimes :)

Why -10 offset though, what's the pros and cons of that setting over the other -5, and -15. Going by the best I've learned about mixing levels, obviously movies standard is known quite well, TV programs and, I'm assuming TV series as well, are just 10db below movies. Music being unknown or varied, but I have heard mixers for music using 85db. Games is a mystery, I just always assumed they use a similar mix level to music as the volume of music to games usually seems similar.
The offset is basically a direct relationship to the MV(master volume). Basically using “0” offset allows DEQ to engage with the MV lower. That’s because at lower volumes, hearing bass is more difficult for humans, so in order to maintain “flatness” the DEQ contour was created. It also boosts the treble range too.
If you typically listen at high volumes, Deq does much less. If you listen at lower volumes, it’s effects are much more obvious, and when it gets obnoxious, then people use the offsets.
Deq also raises the surround speaker levels too.
 
astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
The offset is basically a direct relationship to the MV(master volume). Basically using “0” offset allows DEQ to engage with the MV lower. That’s because at lower volumes, hearing bass is more difficult for humans, so in order to maintain “flatness” the DEQ contour was created. It also boosts the treble range too.
If you typically listen at high volumes, Deq does much less. If you listen at lower volumes, it’s effects are much more obvious, and when it gets obnoxious, then people use the offsets.
Deq also raises the surround speaker levels too.
Fortunately I have no surrounds right now, just a humble 3.1 setup, however I think I said before, I pretty much listen at -25 to -20db. But that's after Audyssey has set it's levels.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Fwiw, this is what Deq looks like on paper with different MV levels.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Fortunately I have no surrounds right now, just a humble 3.1 setup, however I think I said before, I pretty much listen at -25 to -20db. But that's after Audyssey has set it's levels.
Well, I’d say unfortunately no surrounds lol. But that’s just me.
Imo, if you’re in the -25-20 MV range you would definitely benefit from experimenting with the offsets. As you get closer to “0” MV there’s less effect, but the offsets will help with keeping it balanced at lower(relatively speaking) volume levels.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Pretty sure it's -20, but could be -25.
Btw. Nice job on those. I’ve seen you lost them before. Always liked em. I’d be curious to see what the same exact sweeps look like at -5 and -40 since it applies more db at lower volumes. I had some one time but that laptop is TU.....
 
astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
I took some sweeps a while back too, just for this purpose! I labeled each sweep so you can see how the different RLO settings shape the curve.

View attachment 45333
Going by them -10 does honestly seem like a good middle ground. I guess if I ignored DEQ and just raised subs a bit, either way I could be losing something. -10db offset does seem like the best option. Although I do dread the surround boost DEQ has when I get my Bronze FX surrounds.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Going by them -10 does honestly seem like a good middle ground. I guess if I ignored DEQ and just raised subs a bit, either way I could be losing something. -10db offset does seem like the best option. Although I do dread the surround boost DEQ has when I get my Bronze FX surrounds.
Well a couple things. The surrounds can be backed off a couple or a few db to balance out, and they also get less boost as MV goes up too. Kinda like the the offset.
FWIW, I don’t use Deq. I have a house curve and blah blah blah, but my MV levels are usually between -10 and -15 for most of my film watching, so Deq doesn’t help me much.
Music is different Ime and anywhere from -30 to -15 is normal for me.
 
astartesultra

astartesultra

Enthusiast
Well a couple things. The surrounds can be backed off a couple or a few db to balance out, and they also get less boost as MV goes up too. Kinda like the the offset.
FWIW, I don’t use Deq. I have a house curve and blah blah blah, but my MV levels are usually between -10 and -15 for most of my film watching, so Deq doesn’t help me much.
Music is different Ime and anywhere from -30 to -15 is normal for me.
Well at least the surround boost can be fixed somewhat. Another question, does anyone think DEQ reduces sound quality at all, or does actually keep the content untouched, besides it's boosts.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Well at least the surround boost can be fixed somewhat. Another question, does anyone think DEQ reduces sound quality at all, or does actually keep the content untouched, besides it's boosts.
Imo quality wise it’s just fine.
 

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