Active Cross-overs

[GO-NAD!]

You're even willing to compare your two speaker models, but are you against trying the idea of putting those Energy's in another room, in order to be more sure if your lack of complete satisfaction stems whatsoever from the speaker itself?

I was quite satisfied with the Energys while they were on stands, prior to the cabinet installation, so I'm hesitant to blame them. What I'd really like to have is a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's. But, with a wife whose agreement to any audio investment is more from tolerance, than enthusiastic approval, I'd have better luck convincing her to purchase in-walls than another pair of free-standers. Then, she'd see a "practical" improvement from the change. Sigh...

If willing to build something, I wonder if placing them on a small acoustical treatment (custom made of course, to be unobtrusive) would help to absorb some midrange (and hopefully lower midrange) affecting the boundary interaction with the cabinet. See, I wonder how much resonance is still created even if that speaker was not at all touching the cabinet, but say in free space just a few millimeters away. I'm just wondering out loud.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that if I were to wall mount them, but they are still in close proximity to the cabinet, you think there might still be issues with resonance? I had been mulling over a possible wall mount bracket design over the weekend. I did some searching for a commercial design, but I didn't see anything with a long arm to get some distance from the wall behind the speaker. So, what I'm thinking is to construct a wooden bracket which incorporates a socket. I'd make another socket that would be bolted to the back of the speaker. Into each socket, I'd insert a wooden arm of whatever length I needed. In fact, I thought I'd make arms of 2 lengths - one short (WAF), for everyday ambient listening. I'd make another longer arm, 12" - 16" to get some distance from the wall, for critical listening. If the arm was 16" long, it would put the back of the speaker at the front edge of the cabinet shelf. I would mount the wall bracket so that the speaker would be an inch or so above the shelf. Of course, I'll have to do some experimentation on the bracket design to ensure it'll be strong enough. These speakers weigh 28 lbs each!

However, should I encounter resistance to that idea, or should anyone more knowledgeable than myself deem this wall mount idea to be less effective than de-coupling pads, than pads it is. Pads may take care of or at least reduce resonance, but I'd still have the close proximity to the wall behind.

That's where some electronic correction might be necessary, such as:

I agree that the Behringer products, perhaps namely the DCX, could be a great boon. One of the first people I'd probably try to bother in helping me implement one is our respected moderator, annunaki.

Have you been reading the "Custom In-wall Sub" thread in the DIY section...?

My crystal ball tells me that dual stereo hidden in-wall subs are in your future.

Thanks, once again!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Auralex Mopads

As an addendum to my last post, I did a search for reviews/comments on the Auralex Mopads and I did find a lot of glowing opinions. There were a very small number of desenting opinions. I couldn't find any review where objective measurements were taken. The positive reviews ranged from slight improvement, to absolutely astounding improvement in SQ. I guess it all boils down to how bad the resonance was to start with. Anybody know if any measurements have been taken to demonstrate how effective these are? I know - results may vary....

 

[jostenmeat]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that if I were to wall mount them, but they are still in close proximity to the cabinet, you think there might still be issues with resonance?

Maybe?

I had been mulling over a possible wall mount bracket design over the weekend. I did some searching for a commercial design, but I didn't see anything with a long arm to get some distance from the wall behind the speaker. So, what I'm thinking is to construct a wooden bracket which incorporates a socket. I'd make another socket that would be bolted to the back of the speaker. Into each socket, I'd insert a wooden arm of whatever length I needed. In fact, I thought I'd make arms of 2 lengths - one short (WAF), for everyday ambient listening. I'd make another longer arm, 12" - 16" to get some distance from the wall, for critical listening. If the arm was 16" long, it would put the back of the speaker at the front edge of the cabinet shelf. I would mount the wall bracket so that the speaker would be an inch or so above the shelf. Of course, I'll have to do some experimentation on the bracket design to ensure it'll be strong enough. These speakers weigh 28 lbs each!

I already know for a fact you are much handier than I am. While for me doing something like this would be a scary prospect, and for you this could be child's play, in either case, I just want for us to be sure that the efforts are even warranted to begin with.

However, should I encounter resistance to that idea, or should anyone more knowledgeable than myself deem this wall mount idea to be less effective than de-coupling pads, than pads it is. Pads may take care of or at least reduce resonance, but I'd still have the close proximity to the wall behind.

For me and my own experiences, there's no substitute for experimenting. Why don't you order a pair of mopads, and if unsatisfactory, sell them, or return them. I'm guessing there must be a vendor that will take returns, if only at the loss of shipping . . .

The mopads should be rather affordable, and therefore IMO you ought to try, instead of "predicting" its relative worth compared to building wooden arms with sockets carrying 28lb loads sticking out of your living room wall.

As an addendum to my last post, I did a search for reviews/comments on the Auralex Mopads and I did find a lot of glowing opinions. There were a very small number of desenting opinions. I couldn't find any review where objective measurements were taken. The positive reviews ranged from slight improvement, to absolutely astounding improvement in SQ. I guess it all boils down to how bad the resonance was to start with. Anybody know if any measurements have been taken to demonstrate how effective these are? I know - results may vary....

Honestly, I might not even bother looking. Even if you found measurements, they won't really be worth much, unless it was comparative to other materials in the same room, same position, same day, same test equipment. If you checked out measurements on acoustic panels, you would know exactly what I mean.

Let us know how you lean!

 

[GO-NAD!]

I did some comparisons between listening to the Energys sitting on the shelf and also sitting on stands out in front of the cabinets. There is a definite difference as far as resonance is concerned. The difference in the bass response is also there, but the difference is more subtle. I find that the short length of time taken to move the speakers between the shelf position and the stand position is long enough to make it difficult to gauge the degree of difference by ear.

For me and my own experiences, there's no substitute for experimenting. Why don't you order a pair of mopads, and if unsatisfactory, sell them, or return them. I'm guessing there must be a vendor that will take returns, if only at the loss of shipping . . .

The mopads should be rather affordable, and therefore IMO you ought to try, instead of "predicting" its relative worth compared to building wooden arms with sockets carrying 28lb loads sticking out of your living room wall.

I think I'll try the pads at first, since the change in resonance seemed more pronounced. When, I receive the test CD, I'll do some comparisons of frequency response (shelf vs stands) and see what the difference in readings is, then decide if the wall bracket idea is worth the effort.

Honestly, I might not even bother looking. Even if you found measurements, they won't really be worth much, unless it was comparative to other materials in the same room, same position, same day, same test equipment. If you checked out measurements on acoustic panels, you would know exactly what I mean.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I'll get them - if they don't make much difference there, I can put them under the centre speaker for my HT. Right now, it's sitting on top of the TV and I'm sure that's going to resonate!

Thanks again!