ABC's 20/20 on vodka

[Buckeyefan 1]

Did anyone see 20/20's special this evening on vodka? They took several Manhattan bar going "snobs" who thought they knew their drink of choice - vodka, and gave them a taste test to see if they could pick out their favorite, as well as rank them from top shelf to house. Not surprisingly, they all failed. But amazingly, they picked "Grey Goose" as the worst of the 6 shots. Most described it having a terrible, heavy after taste, and wouldn't use it to clean off wounds.

According to the ATF: vodka is defined as a neutral spirit "without distinctive character, aroma, taste or color." In theory, then, one brand of vodka should taste like every other, and the phrase "premium vodka" would be something of an oxymoron. In fact, vodka's neutral taste does account for much of its appeal: It mixes equally well with tonic water and tomato juice.

So next time you go ordering that mixed drink with Grey Goose, Kettle One, Belvedere, Absolut, or Stolichynaya - just remember that the purpose of vodka is not to have "distinctive character, aroma, taste, or color." If you're doing shots, why not Canadian whiskey?

Do you think this in any way parallels audio myths?

 

[jaxvon]

Eh, not really. If you've ever been drunk on high-quality vodka and the $5.19 a fifth vodka, you'll know why you pay more for Absolut. The morning after especially. Good liquor is a much nicer hangover, as well as a much more pleasant drunk.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Did anyone see 20/20's special this evening on vodka? They took several Manhattan bar going "snobs" who thought they knew their drink of choice - vodka, and gave them a taste test to see if they could pick out their favorite, as well as rank them from top shelf to house. Not surprisingly, they all failed. But amazingly, they picked "Grey Goose" as the worst of the 6 shots. Most described it having a terrible, heavy after taste, and wouldn't use it to clean off wounds.

Missed it

Not surprising

Even Vodka makers can alter the taste for differences


In theory, then, one brand of vodka should taste like every other, and the phrase "premium vodka" would be something of an oxymoron.


Well, back to the 'definition' of premium Does that mean a premium price? Premium glass, labeling? Premium to what?

Do you think this in any way parallels audio myths?

Absolutely As are many other consumer marketplace products

 

[brian32672]

According to the ATF: vodka is defined as a neutral spirit "without distinctive character, aroma, taste or color."

I have to totally disagree with this one. By chance the only alcohol I drink other than beer is vodka. And boy let me tell you, Albertsons vodka compared to Absolut, or Smirnoff - Is just horrible.

Granted I do drink quite a bit of both, depends on money factor.

I used to be a real alcoholic with drinking (no lie) a bottle of Two Fingers Tequilia a night. About 5 nights a week.....

No I do not drink that anymore...

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Mtry,

Just wondering if you've ever replied to a thread using all the smilies. You left out , , , , , , . But still, it was a very emotional response.

PS,
Where does the name mtrycrafts come from? It sounds like some type of military boating term.

This is the only other info I could find for mtry:
mtry = number of variables randomly selected at each node
mtry:
this is the only parameter that requires some judgment to set, but forests isn't to sensitive to its value as long as it's in the right ball park. I have found that setting mtry equal to the square root of mdim gives generally near optimum results. My advice is to begin with this value and try a value twice as high and half as low monitoring the results by setting look=1 and checking the test set error for a small number of trees. With many noise variables present, mtry has to be set higher.

I'm sure I'm way off.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I have to totally disagree with this one. By chance the only alcohol I drink other than beer is vodka. And boy let me tell you, Albertsons vodka compared to Absolut, or Smirnoff - Is just horrible.

Granted I do drink quite a bit of both, depends on money factor.

I used to be a real alcoholic with drinking (no lie) a bottle of Two Fingers Tequilia a night. About 5 nights a week.....

No I do not drink that anymore...

Wow, that's some serious drinking. You ever mess with this stuff? We used to chase this stuff with 151 Rum, then a 40oz beer in college. Stupid.

 

[Rob Babcock]

The more money you spend on vodka the less taste it has, or that's what I think is ideal. For my money there really isn't anything better than Grey Goose or Stolychnaya. One night I was drinking some Svedka (not bad at all for mid priced) and decided to try the jigger bottle of Chopin the liquor store clerk gave me as a freebie. The Chopin literally made the Svedka taste like paint thinner by comparison! But the 2 oz bottle had a $6 sticker on it ( )- I checked the big bottles and it was something like $50 per litre. Yikes- for that kind of money I'll keep drinking my Svedka.

Incidentally, I never do shots; all my liquor consumption is mixed drinks (I don't really drink often or much anymore). I'd find it pretty hard to believe that the average guy couldn't tell the diff in a mixed drink, but shots...all you get is a bit of fire as it goes down. Straight booze is just heat to me- I probably couldn't tell Mr. Boston from Stoli's that way.

 

[anamorphic96]

Wow, that's some serious drinking. You ever mess with this stuff? We used to chase this stuff with 151 Rum, then a 40oz beer in college. Stupid.

DAMN !!! Buckeye. I can only imagine what those nights where like.

When it comes to Vodka I usually stay with the middle of the road stuff such as Skyy, Smirnoff, Absolut.

Good alcohol does ease some of the misery of a hangover. Especially compared to some of that off brand well stuff they use.

 

[racquetman]

Obviously none of you guys are chemists

The reason none of these experts can tell the difference is simple. Vodka is nothing but Ethanol and water. The grade (purity) of the ethanol and the quality (taste) of the water makes the difference. If you don't believe me then go hang out with some graduate level chemists who like to drink. They take laboratory grade ethanol and partially deionized water and make "vodka" all the time. Why spend money on the packaged product when you can make it yourself??

 

[HookedOnSound]

According to the ATF: vodka is defined as a neutral spirit "without distinctive character, aroma, taste or color." In theory, then, one brand of vodka should taste like every other, and the phrase "premium vodka" would be something of an oxymoron. In fact, vodka's neutral taste does account for much of its appeal: It mixes equally well with tonic water and tomato juice.

Thanks for the post.

I have had debates in the past with friends telling me that my taste buds were bad because I couldn't really differentiate one Vodka for another. The only difference that I found (drinking it straight) was smoothness (even this trait is small for my tastebuds). And for mixing, well, I couldn't tell unless you substituted for diesel!

I am not talking about those new 'flavoured' vodkas either.

Seems like I wasn't too far off at all.

Sincerely,

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Thanks for the post.

I have had debates in the past with friends telling me that my taste buds were bad because I couldn't really differentiate one Vodka for another. The only difference that I found (drinking it straight) was smoothness (even this trait is small for my tastebuds). And for mixing, well, I couldn't tell unless you substituted for diesel!

I am not talking about those new 'flavoured' vodkas either.

Seems like I wasn't too far off at all.

Sincerely,

The "6 bar snobs" on 20/20 last night couldn't tell any difference at all between the cheapest, and most expensive vodka in their mixed drinks. Half of them only drink vodka in mixed drinks. The other half drank it both ways, and claimed they would be able to tell drinking it straight. There were differences in taste, but moreso on the side of being "terrible" than smooth. Grey Goose was the worst, straight out of the bottle. None of the 6 could pick it out from the others when used as a mixer.

Everclear grain alcohol is actually a more potent form of vodka. And yes, it does taste like racing fuel (not that I've tried racing fuel, of course )

Not to go too far off subject, but 20/20's next story was about art. They had several paintings ranging from 4yr old's "splatter work" to multi million dollar works of art. They asked artists to differentiate. They all picked the 4 yr olds' splatter painting as the "definite professional work of art." It was hysterical. One artist even said - "those kids have potential."
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/GiveMeABreak/story?id=563146&page=1

 

[Steve1000]

Awesome reading. Thanks.

The bit about the art is one of my pet peeves vindicated. In any art I want to see breathtaking talent and craftsmanship. Otherwise, as to whether it is really high "art," I am extremely cynical about it. Same goes for music.

The "6 bar snobs" on 20/20 last night couldn't tell any difference at all between the cheapest, and most expensive vodka in their mixed drinks...

Not to go too far off subject, but 20/20's next story was about art. They had several paintings ranging from 4yr old's "splatter work" to multi million dollar works of art. They asked artists to differentiate. They all picked the 4 yr olds' splatter painting as the "definite professional work of art." It was hysterical. One artist even said - "those kids have potential."

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/GiveMeABreak/story?id=563146&page=1

 

[MDS]

I haven't been much of a drinker since college (quite some time ago) but when I do drink, I drink one and only one thing: Jim Beam and coke. There is a very small difference to me between Jim Beam and Jack Daniels whiskey, with Jack being just a tad 'harsher'. But could I tell I tell which was whilch if I were blindfolded? Probably not.

I think the vodka blind taste tests are analogous to audio in one way: Our senses are easily fooled. In the whisky case its possible that the slightly higher alcohol content of Jack Daniels (90 proof) over Jim Beam (80 proof) is what leads me to believe it has a stronger whisky taste, but take away the knowledge of which one you are drinking and that small difference becomes almost unnoticeable in the same way that small differences in power output, distortion, or many other variables become almost irrelevant for determining which amplifier, cable, or other component is in use.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

There is a very small difference to me between Jim Beam and Jack Daniels whiskey, with Jack being just a tad 'harsher'. But could I tell I tell which was whilch if I were blindfolded? Probably not.

I can smell a difference. I don't drink whiskey so I couldn't tell them apart by taste. Years ago when I did drink whiskey (ironically, up until I turned 21, at which point I quite for several years) I liked jack better. I can't remember why.

But I drink wine now.....MMMMmmmmm..wine.

 

[algernon]

The reason none of these experts can tell the difference is simple. Vodka is nothing but Ethanol and water. The grade (purity) of the ethanol and the quality (taste) of the water makes the difference. If you don't believe me then go hang out with some graduate level chemists who like to drink. They take laboratory grade ethanol and partially deionized water and make "vodka" all the time. Why spend money on the packaged product when you can make it yourself??

Yeah, in college we mixed anhydrous ethanol with orange juice. It just floated on top until we shook it up. Also got to try moonshine once in Alabama. It was amber colored, came in a ball jar, and looked, smelled and tasted like kerosene.

On hangovers: They are due to several factors: The primary cause is dehydration, alcohol is a diuretic. Rehydrating yourself before you pass out can significantly lessen a hangover. This is often difficult to remember to do, however.

Another cause are substances called cogeners, which are chemicals that are produced along with ethanol during the fermentation process. These can include other alcohols, ketones and aldehydes. Dark spirits have more that clear spirits, and more expensive distilled spirits have less than the cheap stuff (better distillation to remove the impurities)

Finally, the ethanol is convered in our bodies to acetaldehyde, which also contributes a large part to a hangover. The enzyme needed to convert acetaldehyde to acetate, which is readily excreted, is maxed out by excessive consumption, leading to an accumulation of acetaldehyde and a nasty hangover. B complex vitamins can help replenish this enzyme.

 

[jaxvon]

So, to minimize a hangover, drink plenty of water (I know that), and hit the B-Vitamins hard? Thanks for the tip!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Mtry,

Just wondering if you've ever replied to a thread using all the smilies. You left out , , , , , , . But still, it was a very emotional response.

PS,
Where does the name mtrycrafts come from? It sounds like some type of military boating term.

This is the only other info I could find for mtry:
mtry = number of variables randomly selected at each node
mtry:
this is the only parameter that requires some judgment to set, but forests isn't to sensitive to its value as long as it's in the right ball park. I have found that setting mtry equal to the square root of mdim gives generally near optimum results. My advice is to begin with this value and try a value twice as high and half as low monitoring the results by setting look=1 and checking the test set error for a small number of trees. With many noise variables present, mtry has to be set higher.

I'm sure I'm way off.

You are too funny for me, LOL.
Yes, you are a bit off and I will keep the sectret for the time being

at one time I tried to add a number of those emotion faces and it told me I used too many

 

[zipper]

Got an opportunity to try some home made Russian Vodka................looked like gasoline & certainly had the octane to match. Much like Everclear, it was more like swallowing a vapor than a liquid.

GG has pleasant taste going down & less after-taste,IMO. But for mixing (other than Martini's) I wouldn't say it matters a whole lot. I tried some highly touted vodka made in Idaho (can't remember the name) & man, was it gawd-awful. Remember............always store your vodka in the freezer, especially if you do shots.

Jack Daniels has a unique taste that I prefer mixed with Coke. Conversely, I preferred Crown straight up rather than mixed. Makers Mark & V.O. Gold are excellent either way. Can't compare Jim Beam as I never was much of a bourbon fan.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Well being a pretty big drinker when I'm at school, I go out at least 4 nights a week, I have to agree with some earlier posts. If I'm taking a shot of vodka they all pretty much taste the same, I have to say when I'm drinking Grey Goose it seams smoother, but it could just be that I'm really drunk anytime I order it. In a mixed drink I don't think there would be anyway to tell a differnce from a $6 dollar per bottloe of McCormicks vodka vs a $50 dollar bottle of Grey Goose, now drinking it straight is a different story. On the Grain Alcohol, that is some nasty stuff, we take flaming shots of those everyonce and awhile and its just like instant dry mouth and it takes like rubbing alcohol to me, I hate it (the dumb things we do in college)

 

[annunaki]

Having been a bartender in the past I have done some of my own tests with customers and others on myself.

I only drink Vodka on ice, I do not mix it with anything else. I have tried all the major "well knowns" and some, some of you may have never heard of.

I was part of a blind taste test with 5 different vodkas. I was only told what vodkas were in the test, that was it. I was able to correctly identify each vodka. Many vodaks have there own character, and yes, it is directly due to how pure they are.

I COMPLETELY agree with the findings of that test, Grey Goose is HORRIBLE. Every person I have given a blind test to always picks Grey Goose as the worst of the bunch. To me, they are the Bose of the vodka world. All marketing, and no substance.

It is funny, because the people who order Grey Goose, (usually) are the one's who know the least about Vodka. They are typically people who like to look important, and think they are ordering something good. I like to think of them as posers. Again, just like (most) people who purchase Bose.

My favorites are as follows:
1. Shaker's (Wheat)
2. Belvedere
3. (tie) Ultimat/Shaker's (Rye)
4. Chopin
5. Christiana
6. (tie) Vox/ Stoli's