A/V receiver vs. Separates

[lsiberian]

JR Music has the onkyo TX-SR876 new - free shipping - $989

Mine will be here today! Yes I am pacing the floor!

Make sure you run eq right. Check out the AS forum on AVS and do as you are told. By the way if yo don't have a tripod a nice tall cardboard box always worked for me.

 

[crackdaddy361]

My son kept turning the master power and standby power switch on and off over and over again. Now, when it turns on, it does not recognize any of the inputs. I bought a cabinet for my new equipment, so it will be toddler-proof (hopefully).

As an aside, I have an early-80's vintage Pioneer A-717 integrated amp that still works great. Unfortunately, no coax inputs or remote control, so I can't use it in place of my HK.

 

[crackdaddy361]

I do agree that a good set of separates is probably overkill for the SBS-01s, unless you are planning on upgrading the speakers soon. So an AVR is a good compromise and if you decide to go that route, all you would need to add is a pre/pro or new receiver later on. Receivers do tend to come out every year and have more features, but I don't tend to buy a receiver just on features alone, as I don't usually need all of the features that they provide.

thanks for this input. I have a small viewing space (20' x 30') with a 96" pull down screen, so I will not be upgrading my speakers any time soon. Do you have any recommendations on AVR's? I saw a previous recommendation on an Onkyo, but I have heard that they run hot. Since it will be in an entertainment armoire (to keep it away from destructive toddlers), I am concerned about excessive heat generation.
Thanks!

 

[The Dukester]

I agree with agarwalro. Great post. Buy an AVR and be done with it. If you really need more power, which you really won't with those speakers, you can add an amp. Couple that with the fact that in my opinion it's easier to sell a used AVR as compared with seperates if you decide to upgrade and it's a no brainer to me. I could have bought seperates when I upgraded but chose to go the AVR route. It just made sense to me.

Look at Yamaha's RX-V offerings, the Denons you mentioned as well as the Pioneer units. There are some killer deals going on right now on the Elite AVRs. Look around. Give the SC-05 or the SC-07 units a look. Gobbs of connectivity, plenty of power and room correction make today's AVRs a great buy in my book.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

 

[cfrizz]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this statement. It is artificial barriers like this that hurt audio in general. Why do you think it is overkill? Do you know of some fatal flaw in the SVS speakers that no one else knows about?

There is no such thing as overkill, not in the equipment anyone wants to get for their system regardless of how much it may cost. If that is what they want then they should get it.

What I have discovered is that most receivers simply don't have the power to let the owner discover just how good their speakers are capable of sounding. So the more power the better.

I have had both receivers & separates & I prefer separates for better sound quality.

I would look at the Emo combo that was suggested except I would switch over to the XPA for power.

Although the most important factor is getting a lock that will keep prying hands OUT of your gear!

I do agree that a good set of separates is probably overkill for the SBS-01s, unless you are planning on upgrading the speakers soon.

 

[crackdaddy361]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this statement. It is artificial barriers like this that hurt audio in general. Why do you think it is overkill? Do you know of some fatal flaw in the SVS speakers that no one else knows about?

There is no such thing as overkill, not in the equipment anyone wants to get for their system regardless of how much it may cost. If that is what they want then they should get it.

What I have discovered is that most receivers simply don't have the power to let the owner discover just how good their speakers are capable of sounding. So the more power the better.

I have had both receivers & separates & I prefer separates for better sound quality.

I would look at the Emo combo that was suggested except I would switch over to the XPA for power.

Although the most important factor is getting a lock that will keep prying hands OUT of your gear!

Thanks for the input; I have a locked cabinet now, so it should not be a problem. My setup is in the basement, and I normally only use it for my wife and I watch movies or HD cable TV.

 

[agarwalro]

There is no such thing as overkill, not in the equipment anyone wants to get for their system regardless of how much it may cost. If that is what they want then they should get it.

I will have to disagree with this statement. Overkill = taking something to a point (well beyond) where there is no added benefit.

A 2.1 setup with RBH T2 floorstanding speakers and 1000 W/channel amp and a SVS PB13 Ultra in a 10x10ft room can be considered overkill perhaps? What about electrostatic speakers in the same size space? Would that be overkill? A 120inch Screen/PJ in the same space will be overkill on the video side...

If one owns a Ferrari and but can only drive in 20mph zones, would that be overkill? It would surely sound great still, and be capable of doing 200mph, but whats the point. Hense the overkill in this situation.

Would doing ones family grocery shopping and carrying it in a dump truck be overkill?

Just because someone has the means to get whatever they desire, does not predicate their ability to actually use the purchase to its fullest extent.

Not trying to be argumentative... just saying that overkill is a real possibility.

What I have discovered is that most receivers simply don't have the power to let the owner discover just how good their speakers are capable of sounding. So the more power the better.

More power is better, but when is it too much? Should Crackdaddy361 get a MPS-2? Sure if he can afford to... but will he use the amp to its full potential? I doubt it, unless he wants to find out what a blown 5.0 setup 'looks' like.

 

[Seth=L]

What other speakers do you have other than the SVS SBS-01? Do you have a subwoofer? It looks to me that most of the receivers and/or separates mentioned thusfar are overkill and it looks like additional speakers should be more involved in the budget. Those little bookshelf speakers don't need power amps behind them. Instead of blowing up receivers you will be blowing up speakers.

 

[lsiberian]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with this statement. It is artificial barriers like this that hurt audio in general. Why do you think it is overkill? Do you know of some fatal flaw in the SVS speakers that no one else knows about?

There is no such thing as overkill, not in the equipment anyone wants to get for their system regardless of how much it may cost. If that is what they want then they should get it.

What I have discovered is that most receivers simply don't have the power to let the owner discover just how good their speakers are capable of sounding. So the more power the better.

I have had both receivers & separates & I prefer separates for better sound quality.

I would look at the Emo combo that was suggested except I would switch over to the XPA for power.

Although the most important factor is getting a lock that will keep prying hands OUT of your gear!

So what your saying is that you think a 1500 dollar pre-pro combo should be used on a speaker package thats only like 800 dollars?

Seriously dude get a grip on reality. Wasting money on the amp section is a common mistake in piecing a system. Speakers are what matters. Speakers are what lasts. Speakers make your system.

In case you didn't understand this.
Speakers make your system.

Many AVRs actually make good pre-pros. And if one is building a home theater then should you really amp the four surrounds?

I say no. Amp the front 3 and use a DCX 2496 to integrate them with up to 3 subs. Or phantom the center and amp just the front 2. A Behringer A500 would be suitable for many speakers. Used with a Behringer FBD you can integrate the LR channel with your subs as well using CX2310 crossover.

In reality I see no advantage to most amps. Since most will blow speakers.

Come on be reasonable. I've yet to see a pre-pro as cheap as a Marantz 4002. Which can easily be paired with a nice amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Seriously dude (cfrizz) get a grip on reality.

You mean dudet?

As in a woman?

 

[crackdaddy361]

I have the 12" subwoofer that came with the SBS-01 package; I have a 5.1 setup.

 

[mr-ben]

I need to have HDMI connectivity for whatever processes the audio and video.

My budget for my new receiver or separates will be about $1200.

The applications will mainly be for my home theater and some music (80/20). Please advise, thanks

I know of no separates that you can purchase today for $1200, with HDMI connectivity. You'll be very happy with probably any modern $1200 receiver, and several good brands/models have already been mentioned.

 

[j_garcia]

I know of no separates that you can purchase today for $1200, with HDMI connectivity. You'll be very happy with probably any modern $1200 receiver, and several good brands/models have already been mentioned.

Apparently you haven't checked with Emotiva recently then, as the set mentioned earlier in this thread is just over $1200 and the pre/pro has HDMI.

I have heard the SBS-01 package driven by an average receiver in a 19'x14' room with good results. They are low sensitivity and I think they can actually handle plenty of power, meaning I think you could drive them with quite a bit of power and they wouldn't complain at all. It doesn't sound like that is what is desired here though.

In your price range Crackdaddy, my I'd be looking at Marantz, Harman Kardon again, Onkyo and possibly give Arcam and Rotel a listen.

 

[cfrizz]

You have it backwards. It's about the SPEAKERS having all the power they need to run to their full potential.

The only way he will have a "blown 5.0 setup. is if he gets carried away with the volume knob. In which case he will also blow out his ears, then he won't need speakers at all!

but will he use the amp to its full potential? I doubt it, unless he wants to find out what a blown 5.0 setup 'looks' like.

 

[lsiberian]

You have it backwards. It's about the SPEAKERS having all the power they need to run to their full potential.

The only way he will have a "blown 5.0 setup. is if he gets carried away with the volume knob. In which case he will also blow out his ears, then he won't need speakers at all!

It's actually not hard too blow speakers before you ears. All you need to do is cross them to low and drive them to hard. This is especially easy in a ported design.

Does a speaker care where it gets power from?

Many speakers aren't going to pushed with enough power to justify the investment of an external amp.

But the nice things is by going the Marantz 4002 route. The OP is getting a pre-pro with an amp section. And can easily hook up a few behringer ep2500s to the pre-out sections if more power is needed.

Plus this option leaves the op enough cash to buy a DCX 2496 to eq the speakers and integrate them seamlessly with the subs.

If you want to spend 1000 on an amp section I suggest buying a 3 channel amp, a DCX 2496 and a Marantz 4002 or HK AVR 247(there is one available buy it now atm that's a crazy deal)

That will net you much better performance than some over priced pre-processor and an external amp.

 

[cfrizz]

So what your saying is that you think a 1500 dollar pre-pro combo should be used on a speaker package thats only like 800 dollars?

When I bought my speakers 19 years ago, I only paid 600.00. Needless to say I spent much more on my Sunfire separates. No doubt you are now going to tell me that I wasted money. But that is not YOURS or anyone else’s judgement to make. It is arbitrary lines like these drawn based simply on price alone that is wrong.

Seriously dude get a grip on reality. Wasting money on the amp section is a common mistake in piecing a system. Speakers are what matters. Speakers are what lasts. Speakers make your system.

I am perfectly aware that the speakers make the system. Guess what? My speakers have never sounded better with the Sunfire combo. The only way his system or mine would go to waste is if they were never turned on. Mine gets used every single day.

In case you didn't understand this.
Speakers make your system.

I was all set to upgrade my speakers until I put some serious power to them. Then they showed me what they REALLY sound like That was about 4-5 years ago. They are going NOWHERE unless they die of old age.

Many AVRs actually make good pre-pros. And if one is building a home theater then should you really amp the four surrounds?

I have had a receiver/amp combo. I prefer the better sound quality…TO ME of separates.

In reality I see no advantage to most amps. Since most will blow speakers.

The only way they will get blown is if the volume is turned all the way up. I have read about more speakers get blown by being driven by under powered receivers.

Come on be reasonable. I've yet to see a pre-pro as cheap as a Marantz 4002. Which can easily be paired with a nice amp.

Just like everything else with this hobby, reasonable is in the ear of the beholder.

 

[mr-ben]

Apparently you haven't checked with Emotiva recently then, as the set mentioned earlier in this thread is just over $1200 and the pre/pro has HDMI.

You can not buy the preprocessor mentioned yet. Maybe in a couple of months, but not today.

 

[lsiberian]

You can not buy the preprocessor mentioned yet. Maybe in a couple of months, but not today.

There is a 800 dollar amp.

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Channel-3-Zone-Preamplifier/Processor/1.html

*Cough *Cough

 

[lsiberian]

Just like everything else with this hobby, reasonable is in the ear of the beholder.

Of course it's our judgement to make. We should learn from everyone's mistakes.

Seriously I disagree with you on this point, but if we all agreed then this hobby wouldn't be any fun. I personally don't mind the heat. I think that an upgrade of speakers with that money would have been a great investment, but hey your ears have to live with it.

And if I could use an external amp atm I would.

I think the biggest issue is an amps stability at the lfe range not necessarily the headroom. This is where many AVRs suffer. Processing is an entirely different ball of wax. And let me go on the record as saying I have nothing against pre-pros. I'm glad you've found your audio nirvana. I hope I find mine someday.

 

[agarwalro]

It's about the SPEAKERS having all the power they need to run to their full potential.

Completely agree.

The only way he will have a "blown 5.0 setup. is if he gets carried away with the volume knob.

Partially agree (assuming you imply the amp is overdriven). It will happen if

1. The amp is underpowered and goes into clipping aka overdriven
2. The amp is too powerful and though not clipped the speaker extrusion capability is maxed over a period of time leading to eventual mechanical failure
3. The amp is too powerful and though not clipped, the speaker coil is fried by an instantaneous peak.

You have it backwards.

Disagree.