A little sub help please....for a noob

[Mo Noyz]

Right, but 24Hz is plenty low enough for me.

And I'm not sure how outdoor tests offer a level playing field considering the fluctuating ambient noise levels. But, I'll take your word for it.

I just don't understand why my recommendation of Velodyne needed to be attacked. Or my choice of separates over a receiver. Or the fact that I like running flat settings over EQ. Or the fact that I disagree that an external DAC isn't worth ones time or money.

Sorry, but it hasn't been nice. I'm going to contact an admin and ask to have my account deleted.

 

[Steve81]

And I'm not sure how outdoor tests offer a level playing field considering the fluctuating ambient noise levels. But, I'll take your word for it.

Noise is generally controlled by taking the measurements relatively high output levels (at AH, IIRC the tests start at 90dB centered at 50Hz) and at relatively close distances (2 meters). As far as level playing fields, the reality is that no two rooms are alike in how they effect subwoofer response, and seemingly small variations in subwoofer & microphone placement can have a big effect on the results.

I just don't understand why my recommendation of Velodyne needed to be attacked.

Reviews like this probably don't help:
Velodyne EQ-Max 15 Subwoofer Review | Audioholics
The inability to deliver even 100dB of output below 31.5Hz in CEA2010 burst testing from a vented subwoofer with an $879 price tag sticks out like a store thumb against competition from companies like Hsu, Rythmik, PSA, Outlaw, and yes, SVS.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thank you for the help. I knew the power to sub ratio....same as with my car audio stuff. But, just a little lost with these being powered, lol. Instead of me matching the right power and amp to a sub, these are already matched up, so that is my confusion I guess. Power makes all the difference in car audio, and getting the right power on the right sub is what gives you the best sound. I guess what I am trying to get at, is, with these being active subs, they should already be matched to sound good, in theory, so what distinguishes one to another, lol?? Just wondering if there is enough difference between an "onsale" JBL sub that is marked down from $499 to $250, as opposed to a regular priced SVS

With that said, I am much higher on crisp, deep SQ, than loud, so it appears the SVS will be my best bet according to you guys. Thank you for the help.

The retail price on the JBL subwoofer covers the cost of the retailer as well as the manufacturer. When you go into the store to buy a subwoofer, the cost of it pays for the building, the employees, etc. The retail price has to be high enough to cover everyone's expenses and give everyone a profit before it gets to you. With SVS, you are not having to pay for a retail store. So they can have a much lower retail price for their items. You should figure that a subwoofer sold in a retail shop is going to have about double the retail price of an approximately equivalent one from a factory direct store, assuming no one is gouging you. (Which means that your example of the JBL is more like the performance of a $250 factory direct subwoofer.) And then, of course, some companies do a better job at a given price than other companies. On all counts, SVS is a great choice and a great value.

The downside of factory direct is that you cannot hear it or see it before you buy. But with SVS, you are good to go, as there are professional reviews in which many of their subwoofers have been measured and SVS invariably provides a great product for the price. Plus, they have a very good return policy, in case you are not happy with it once you get it in your home.

You can go cheaper than the SVS PB-1000. But if you do, you will get a significantly inferior product.

 

[mike c]

you shared your experience with the cht-15.

i shared my experience of BOTH the CHT-15R's and PB1000.

wasn't an attack, but sharing my personal experience of both subs help the OP much more i would think.

i joined AH because i was asking for subwoofer recommendations, they tried to steer me right, but i had to try many other brands before landing on SVS.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/44397-subwoofer-opinions-mike-c.html

That's all very cute, but you may want to keep reading that thread to find out where those seemingly arbitrary numbers come from.

"I have to ask... Why the heck did you use the Jazz preset? The sub came out worse than it should of if extension was the goal. The chosen preset hampered it, but provided flatter response from 30hz on up for sure. In the Movie preset the sub played strong to 20hz, and at an astounding 110 DB at 20hz and had around 26% distortion in this particular dedicated theater room."

"Also worth noting that all of the subs tested will go significantly lower in-room, as they were all tested outside, with no boundary gain."

Thanks for playing. I realize it's almost mandated that in order to be a member here one must defend SVS subs to the death against all invaders. But, please try to keep in mind that there are a lot of subwoofer companies that also build high quality budget subs. And stop trying to pull up poorly executed tests from people who didn't really know what they were doing to show why someone else's choice of sub is somehow inferior.

Or, at the very least, finish reading your gotcha thread before jumping out of your seat proclaiming victory.

i read those threads back and forth, top to bottom BEFORE i purchased my subwoofers. if i had "listened" to those threads (or if someone explained to me wth they meant) i would NOT have purchased my velodynes.

jazz mode would produce the flattest and lowest extension. (like steve said) movie mode will just EQ bump somewhere. you don't need to explain the CHT to me, because i owned it, two of them, and tried to squeeze the most performance out of them (even bought a velodyne SMS-1)

about in-room specs, that's exactly what i said in my reply to you.

 

[Mo Noyz]

Velodyne sucks!

SVS FTW!

 

[mike c]

Perhaps, but conducting a test like that outside is nearly pointless.

And using those numbers to prove a point is downright silly.

Even the guy who tested later admits:

"No. In fact the lines on the graphs do actually continue below 23/24Hz. However, the THD graph starts to become unreliable when the fundamental frequency gets too close to the noise floor. So to keep things consistent, I truncate/shade the plots where the data starts to become unreliable. In fact the FR and Power Compression graphs are still pretty accurate down to the 60dB mark, the THD graph is a bit more sensitive.

Because we are measuring outdoors, there is an ever-present noise floor at or around 40dB. Wind noise, birds, trees, golfers cursing on the course next door, distant planes, Jerry's ice-cream van, AV Talk sub test spectators chatting, etc, etc. The precise spectral content of this varies over time but there is some noise ever-present at around this level."

Sorry, that's not a very smart way to test speakers.

Though, I did gain some amusement by Mike C's "they suck so bad I bought two of them" admission.

yes, because that was velodyne's recommendation to me after i bought a velodyne DD18. they told me i needed dual ported subs, so i bought a second ported sub.

 

[keh3180]

Thanks for the help guys...I have still yet to buy a sub. It's killing me, as my HT sounds like *** without it, lol. Anyway, had a couple of things come up, car issues, wife's grandmother, and well, had to rebudget. I had to put some money into things that weren't foreseen. Anyway, I want to wait a little and get the SVS, but I have decided to just go with something less expensive. So, I'm asking opinions...again, lol.

I'm down to a budget-sub....which one do you guys like of these choices. The prices are prices I found online....

BIC F12. $199
Martin Logan Dynamo 500. $349 (this is the absolute top of my budget...don't wanna spend it, but if it's a clear choice, I will)
JBL ES150. $159
JBL ES250. $249

Let me know your opinions and thank you.