A little sub help please....for a noob

[keh3180]

Hey guys, needing a little advice. Yes, I'm a noob....to this site. With that said, I am in need of a new sub, the amp in mine is shot.. When my wife and I built our house, I had a theatre system built in. I didn't know a lot about it, but trusted the company that put everything in. After doing some research, I don't guess they did too bad. Well, that was 6 years ago, and now I need a new sub. My old sub wasn't the greatest, but it did ok, and was in my budget. Knowing a little more now, I want to get something better than I had.

I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver, with JBL speakers (can't call the series off top of my head). My sub was a JBL Venue 10. Again, not the greatest, but I didn't know any better, and I was budgeting (since I'm not a sound "pro"). I would like to get some opinions on what would be best for me now. My main use will be for watching movies. Occasionally we'll have the radio on, but rarely.I have researched A LOT, but just don't know what to look for.

I have looked at:
JBL(es150p, es250p, studio250p)
HSU (vtf1-mk2, vtf2-mk2, stf2)
SVS (pb1000, pb2000, sb1000)
BIC (f12, h100, v1020, 1220)
Velodyne (impact10, impact12)
Definitive (Supercube2000)
Polk (dsw 660wi, dsw 550wi)

and more...lol...tired of listing.

Anyway, my budget is around $500....obviously would love to have another $250 sub, but I don't think I will be able to.....hence the reason I am here. If you guys could guide me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Kenny

 

[ImcLoud]

I would buy the vf2, for around $600 its the best bang for your buck sub available {IMO}, when buying mine I compared it to many... Some people also like the rythmik lv12r {I also bought but preferred the vtf2}...

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

How big is you space? (and yes - HSU and SVS are the brands to go with)

 

[markw]

Yeah, Hsu and SVS would be the way to go.

 

[Pyrrho]

If you want to keep to $500 or less, read this:

2013 Subwoofer Roundup: 6 Subs For $500 Or Less | Audioholics

Then buy this:

PB-1000 Product Page

You will not find a subwoofer for $500 that has a deeper, flatter response. If you want to give up some deep bass for extra volume, go for the Premier Acoustic PA-150 described at the first link.

Now, if you want something better, you can buy a more expensive model from SVS. Hsu would be a good choice, too, at some of the higher prices, depending on exactly how much you want to pay and what characteristics matter most to you.

SVS also has a great warranty and great customer service. When comparing prices, make sure you add in the shipping costs; with SVS, that is already included in the price.


Edited to add:

From your list, I would want the PB-2000 the most. But at $799, it is noticeably more than the $499 PB-1000.

 

[keh3180]

Thanks for the advice guys...room size is 15x18; 12' ceiling.

So, let me ask this. Do I really need a frequency lower that 25 and higher than 150??

I ask because, by looking and comparing specs of different speakers, and relating price, the JBL ES150 and ES250 looks dang good at nearly half the price. It has higher RMS, and what looks like a good range (25-150).

Can someone tell me what I should and shouldn't look for??

 

[Mo Noyz]

25-150Hz is just fine for a sub.

I have a ten year old Velodyne CHT 15 that I swear by. Very clean, very fast, so it's also quite good for music. Their current Impact series has some subs in your price range that you may want to check out. I have no experience with that line, but they are one of the most well-respected subwoofer companies in the business.

They also have a room size chart on their site that may help you out.

Velodyne Acoustics- Defining Bass For 30 Years

 

[3db]

Let me add the Rythmik LV12-R to your list which retails for $590.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks for the advice guys...room size is 15x18; 12' ceiling.

So, let me ask this. Do I really need a frequency lower that 25

You do if you want the lowest notes of a pipe organ properly reproduced, or the lowest sounds from some movie sound effects. Some people don't care about these things, or not enough to pay for it.

and higher than 150??

I ask because, by looking and comparing specs of different speakers, and relating price, the JBL ES150 and ES250 looks dang good at nearly half the price. It has higher RMS, and what looks like a good range (25-150).

Can someone tell me what I should and shouldn't look for??

You should ignore the power ratings of subwoofers, and ignore the size of the woofer. The power ratings would matter if you were selecting the woofer, but you are not doing that with a powered subwoofer. What you want is actual performance, and how much power the amplifier delivers is not telling you that. The reason is, speakers can be dramatically different in sensitivity, so it can be the case that you would get more volume from one speaker with 10 watts than you would get from another with 100 watts. Literally. So the power rating, without knowing anything about the sensitivity of the woofer it is driving, is totally useless information.

The size of the woofer also is to be ignored. It is actual performance that matters, not what was done to get it. You should look for professional reviews in which performance is actually measured in accordance with accepted standards, and then you can compare.

The SVS PB-1000 has the flattest response, and the deepest bass, of ANY subwoofer you can find for $500 or less. It has "only" a 10" woofer. But a good 10" woofer is better than a bad woofer of any size.

Now, if you don't care about deep bass, and want it loud, look again at my first link that I gave you previously, where you will find something that sacrifices deep bass for increased volume: the Premier Acoustic PA-150. I personally would not be willing to sacrifice deep bass for increased output, particularly as the SVS PB-1000 has respectable output. But you have to decide what matters to you, and whether or not you care about how deep the bass goes.

 

[copmagnet82]

There is no point in re-typing what other people have said, especially Pyrrho, so do yourself a favor and get an SVS sub. You will not regret it .

 

[keh3180]

You do if you want the lowest notes of a pipe organ properly reproduced, or the lowest sounds from some movie sound effects. Some people don't care about these things, or not enough to pay for it.


You should ignore the power ratings of subwoofers, and ignore the size of the woofer. The power ratings would matter ...
...particularly as the SVS PB-1000 has respectable output. But you have to decide what matters to you, and whether or not you care about how deep the bass goes.

Thank you for the help. I knew the power to sub ratio....same as with my car audio stuff. But, just a little lost with these being powered, lol. Instead of me matching the right power and amp to a sub, these are already matched up, so that is my confusion I guess. Power makes all the difference in car audio, and getting the right power on the right sub is what gives you the best sound. I guess what I am trying to get at, is, with these being active subs, they should already be matched to sound good, in theory, so what distinguishes one to another, lol?? Just wondering if there is enough difference between an "onsale" JBL sub that is marked down from $499 to $250, as opposed to a regular priced SVS

With that said, I am much higher on crisp, deep SQ, than loud, so it appears the SVS will be my best bet according to you guys. Thank you for the help.

 

[yokken]

Get the PB-1000 from SVS. You'll love it.

 

[mike c]

25-150Hz is just fine for a sub.

I have a ten year old Velodyne CHT 15 that I swear by. Very clean, very fast, so it's also quite good for music. Their current Impact series has some subs in your price range that you may want to check out. I have no experience with that line, but they are one of the most well-respected subwoofer companies in the business.

They also have a room size chart on their site that may help you out.

Velodyne Acoustics- Defining Bass For 30 Years

25hz extension is fine ... but unlike the other manufacturers, velodyne specs it's low end subwoofers "in-room, corner loaded"

in a room with no room gain, this would be what a cht-15 gets you
+/-3dB points: 29.2Hz -> >150Hz
Velodyne: CHT-15R - AV Talk - AV Forums and Hi-Fi Forums

i've had dual CHT-15R's myself. and i would trade those two for a single PB1000 in a heartbeat.

 

[Mo Noyz]

That's all very cute, but you may want to keep reading that thread to find out where those seemingly arbitrary numbers come from.

"I have to ask... Why the heck did you use the Jazz preset? The sub came out worse than it should of if extension was the goal. The chosen preset hampered it, but provided flatter response from 30hz on up for sure. In the Movie preset the sub played strong to 20hz, and at an astounding 110 DB at 20hz and had around 26% distortion in this particular dedicated theater room."

"Also worth noting that all of the subs tested will go significantly lower in-room, as they were all tested outside, with no boundary gain."

Thanks for playing. I realize it's almost mandated that in order to be a member here one must defend SVS subs to the death against all invaders. But, please try to keep in mind that there are a lot of subwoofer companies that also build high quality budget subs. And stop trying to pull up poorly executed tests from people who didn't really know what they were doing to show why someone else's choice of sub is somehow inferior.

Or, at the very least, finish reading your gotcha thread before jumping out of your seat proclaiming victory.

 

[3db]

If you can swing an additional $100, I would go for the Rythmik over the SVS PB-1000... ruler flat frequency response of the SVS but digs deeper and plays louder and cleaner.

 

[ImcLoud]

For music, I would really consider dual subs.... I have found that for example 2-sb1000's will sound better than a single sub that costs the same.... If you can swing the cost the sb1000 pair for $950 would be my pick for a budget music system.. 2.2 wins over 2.1 every time... I would take dual sb1's over a single uls15 {and you all know how I like hsu and that sub imparticularly....

duals are Much easier to set up, seem to integrate much better, be more accurate, easier to place, and smooth out the room... Also for some reason 2 200w subs will have much more output than a single 400w sub? not sure why, don't know the science behind it, its just from my experience and others... if you are serious about music and want a sub to work with your stereo mains, get dual subs...

 

[ReUpRo]

Extending yourself on budget is a slippery slope. As you can see, in short order we've brought you close to double your original max.

Stick to the budget. Either of the SVS PB1000 or Hsu Vtf1 subs in the $500 range will be a good pick, with a slight performance advantage to SVS and Hsu being slightly cheaper.

IMHO, at most, the suggestion by 3db to go with the Rythmik LV12R would begrudgingly get my vote (since it is 20% over budget).

 

[crossedover]

That's all very cute, but you may want to keep reading that thread to find out where those seemingly arbitrary numbers come from.

"I have to ask... Why the heck did you use the Jazz preset? The sub came out worse than it should of if extension was the goal. The chosen preset hampered it, but provided flatter response from 30hz on up for sure. In the Movie preset the sub played strong to 20hz, and at an astounding 110 DB at 20hz and had around 26% distortion in this particular dedicated theater room."

"Also worth noting that all of the subs tested will go significantly lower in-room, as they were all tested outside, with no boundary gain."

Thanks for playing. I realize it's almost mandated that in order to be a member here one must defend SVS subs to the death against all invaders. But, please try to keep in mind that there are a lot of subwoofer companies that also build high quality budget subs. And stop trying to pull up poorly executed tests from people who didn't really know what they were doing to show why someone else's choice of sub is somehow inferior.

Or, at the very least, finish reading your gotcha thread before jumping out of your seat proclaiming victory.

There is nothing poorly executed about his tests. He has a highly regarded methods, so much so he is employed by a highly respected manufacturer of professional audio

 

[Mo Noyz]

There is nothing poorly executed about his tests. He has a highly regarded methods, so much so he is employed by a highly respected manufacturer of professional audio

Perhaps, but conducting a test like that outside is nearly pointless.

And using those numbers to prove a point is downright silly.

Even the guy who tested later admits:

"No. In fact the lines on the graphs do actually continue below 23/24Hz. However, the THD graph starts to become unreliable when the fundamental frequency gets too close to the noise floor. So to keep things consistent, I truncate/shade the plots where the data starts to become unreliable. In fact the FR and Power Compression graphs are still pretty accurate down to the 60dB mark, the THD graph is a bit more sensitive.

Because we are measuring outdoors, there is an ever-present noise floor at or around 40dB. Wind noise, birds, trees, golfers cursing on the course next door, distant planes, Jerry's ice-cream van, AV Talk sub test spectators chatting, etc, etc. The precise spectral content of this varies over time but there is some noise ever-present at around this level."

Sorry, that's not a very smart way to test speakers.

Though, I did gain some amusement by Mike C's "they suck so bad I bought two of them" admission.

 

[Steve81]

Perhaps, but conducting a test like that outside is nearly pointless.

FYI, outdoor ground plane testing is the standard for subwoofer testing. Unlike in room tests, properly done outdoor tests are repeatable, and offer a level playing field.

With respect to the CHT-15R, it's probably also worth noting that while the Movie mode offers some electronic signal shaping (centered around 37Hz per the manual) to give a little extra kick for action flicks, both it and the Jazz mode employ a 24Hz subsonic filter, which along with the expected roll off below tune, effectively limits extension.

http://www.velodyne.com/pdf/cht/cht-r_manual.pdf