A little different take on "do i need an amp"

D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
So I've done some reading around if I need an exterenal amp with my AVR including this https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/connecting-an-external-amp-to-a-receiver

My system started out as a 2 channel music system. I was using Audio Physic Classic 30's as my mains powered by a Rega Elicit R amp. I've just started turning that into a home theater now so I picked up the matching Audio Physic Classic Center which is a 4ohm speaker. My AVR is a Marantz 6013 and my mains are still being powered by the rega by leveraging the pre-amp out on the Marantz. My question is should I be powering the Center with more than just the AVR given this and the fact that it's a 4ohm speaker.

My surrounds right now are KEF Q150s an I'll be looking to add a pair of KEF in wall rear surround and eventually 4 in ceiling speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Hard to know without more information. Just because its a 4ohm speaker doesn't mean much. Not familiar with the integrated amp you're using as a power amp let alone know why you're doing that, as the Elicit R seems about the same as what your avr can already do on it's own. While an external power amp might help in some cases, why you need one isn't apparent....what distance are you from speakers, how loud do you listen and are you using a sub or not?
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
Not familiar with the integrated amp you're using as a power amp let alone know why you're doing that, as the Elicit R seems about the same as what your avr can already do on it's own.
It’s because the OP’s speakers are 4-ohm, and the Elicit is rated for 4-ohm operation, while the Marantz is not.

dvon, it’s hard to say if you need an outboard amp for your new center speaker. With the Marantz not having to deal with front left and right speakers, it may well do fine driving the center. Just hook it up and see what happens. If it plays as loud as you want and the Marantz doesn’t shut down, then you’re good to go.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It’s because the OP’s speakers are 4-ohm, and the Elicit is rated for 4-ohm operation, while the Marantz is not.

dvon, it’s hard to say if you need an outboard amp for your new center speaker. With the Marantz not having to deal with front left and right speakers, it may well do fine driving the center. Just hook it up and see what happens. If it plays as loud as you want and the Marantz doesn’t shut down, then you’re good to go.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
It may be "rated" 4 ohm by the brand but still seems little different in capability....
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
Hard to know without more information. Just because its a 4ohm speaker doesn't mean much. Not familiar with the integrated amp you're using as a power amp let alone know why you're doing that, as the Elicit R seems about the same as what your avr can already do on it's own. While an external power amp might help in some cases, why you need one isn't apparent....what distance are you from speakers, how loud do you listen and are you using a sub or not?
My main speakers are about 7 feet from me, I listen at moderate volume and I have two SVS SB 3000's handling LFE. The debate is really that my center is 4ohm
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
It’s because the OP’s speakers are 4-ohm, and the Elicit is rated for 4-ohm operation, while the Marantz is not.

dvon, it’s hard to say if you need an outboard amp for your new center speaker. With the Marantz not having to deal with front left and right speakers, it may well do fine driving the center. Just hook it up and see what happens. If it plays as loud as you want and the Marantz doesn’t shut down, then you’re good to go.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Wayne,

This was exactly my question. I've been running it and it seems fine, just wonder if I'd be getting more out of the center with more/better power. I've not noticed any notable heat from the AVR and because I'm not running the mains from it I have a hunch that's a big piece of it. The mains are also 4ohm so that would be a bit much.
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
It may be "rated" 4 ohm by the brand but still seems little different in capability....
Would you mind elaborating what you mean by little different in capability? I'm still learning.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Would you mind elaborating what you mean by little different in capability? I'm still learning.
While Marantz doesn't have a (printed) rating of performance at 4 ohm, it doesn't mean that they can't handle it in general up to a point depending on the volume level you're asking of the speakers at what distance and with which speakers. Looking at a few bench tests of similar Marantz avrs I'd think the 4 ohm capability is somewhere around 50% more than the 8 ohm performance. Looking at the vague spec by ohms (the 8, 6 and 4 listed without any qualifications) the ratio is similar. Whether the Rega amp is any more capable is hard to tell. Isn't Rega just a brand of record player primarily? All I've ever known about them, do they make anything or just design it or brand it?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Not to say an external amp isn't a good thing for taking the load off the avr's power supply especially as you add channels....but I'd get a much more powerful amp than the avr more than a slightly different one. Keep in mind it takes a doubling of power for a mere 3dB advantage.....
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Not to say an external amp isn't a good thing for taking the load off the avr's power supply especially as you add channels....but I'd get a much more powerful amp than the avr more than a slightly different one. Keep in mind it takes a doubling of power for a mere 3dB advantage.....
I guess you mean a power amp with at least 300W for an 8 ohm load (500W @ 4 ohms) would be the way to go?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I guess you mean a power amp with at least 300W for an 8 ohm load (500W @ 4 ohms) would be the way to go?
Well, he is using an existing amp but yeah if actually getting a power amp to supplement an avr, I'd not use an integrated amp and I would use an amp of significantly more power while I'm at it....if really needed for the levels he's listening at at all :)
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
While Marantz doesn't have a (printed) rating of performance at 4 ohm, it doesn't mean that they can't handle it in general up to a point depending on the volume level you're asking of the speakers at what distance and with which speakers. Looking at a few bench tests of similar Marantz avrs I'd think the 4 ohm capability is somewhere around 50% more than the 8 ohm performance. Looking at the vague spec by ohms (the 8, 6 and 4 listed without any qualifications) the ratio is similar. Whether the Rega amp is any more capable is hard to tell. Isn't Rega just a brand of record player primarily? All I've ever known about them, do they make anything or just design it or brand it?
They do make record players as well as phono pre amps and amps. In the music world they are pretty well regarded amps. I bought mine when the system was first based around vinyl. Still have my Rega RP6 running through it and sounds amazing. That said I did some digging through the manual in more depth and it does seem ok at 4ohms, I need to adjust a setting tomorrow though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
They do make record players as well as phono pre amps and amps. In the music world they are pretty well regarded amps. I bought mine when the system was first based around vinyl. Still have my Rega RP6 running through it and sounds amazing



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Curious, have you seen bench tests of the amp? I briefly looked and couldn't find one. I may not be as familiar with Rega as some, I've only noticed them the last few years for their turntables but haven't needed anything in the way of a new tt for 35 years...
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
Curious, have you seen bench tests of the amp? I briefly looked and couldn't find one. I may not be as familiar with Rega as some, I've only noticed them the last few years for their turntables but haven't needed anything in the way of a new tt for 35 years...
I remember digging when I bought it 5 years ago and seeing some solid numbers, it was quite happy at 4ohms but can’t find it now. Another key note is it had a home theater bypass so when using home theater it acts as a power amp, for vinyl it acts as integrated amp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Sorry for the sidetracking :) but I think the avr would likely be fine with the avr especially with crossing to subs but don't know your listening levels or room/seating details but if you're happy with current power levels I think it would be fine.....but what did you have in mind, a multich amp to cover also other speaker channels at some point?
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
Sorry for the sidetracking :) but I think the avr would likely be fine with the avr especially with crossing to subs but don't know your listening levels or room/seating details but if you're happy with current power levels I think it would be fine.....but what did you have in mind, a multich amp to cover also other speaker channels at some point?
No apology needed! If I was building this all from scratch obviously integrated amp wouldn’t be how I’d go now. I think I’m likely fine in my setup. I was more concerned about 4ohm center at first but this seems OK.

If I went down amp route my debate would be 5 channel to power center and four surrounds or 7 channel to power mains as well and sell the Rega.

Or get rid of Rega and do high quality 3 channel for front stage



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
L

Leemix

Audioholic General
They do make record players as well as phono pre amps and amps. In the music world they are pretty well regarded amps. I bought mine when the system was first based around vinyl. Still have my Rega RP6 running through it and sounds amazing. That said I did some digging through the manual in more depth and it does seem ok at 4ohms, I need to adjust a setting tomorrow though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If the setting is a 4ohm setting in the AVR its best to leave it at default 8, 4ohm setting only limits power to protect a little from heat but its better to keep an eye on it and let it have air or active cooling.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
If the setting is a 4ohm setting in the AVR its best to leave it at default 8, 4ohm setting only limits power to protect a little from heat but its better to keep an eye on it and let it have air or active cooling.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ah ok, that’s helpful. I’ll leave it then since it’s not ever run very hot. It’s well ventilated, the cabinet has vents in the bottom and back and never seems to have any issues with heat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
No apology needed! If I was building this all from scratch obviously integrated amp wouldn’t be how I’d go now. I think I’m likely fine in my setup. I was more concerned about 4ohm center at first but this seems OK.

If I went down amp route my debate would be 5 channel to power center and four surrounds or 7 channel to power mains as well and sell the Rega.

Or get rid of Rega and do high quality 3 channel for front stage



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LOL just re-read my last post....I guess you figured that I meant the center would be fine with the avr....

Or repurpose the Rega to another room? It's what I do with all my older gear, set up another room....almost out of rooms :)
 
D

dvon1981

Audioholic Intern
LOL just re-read my last post....I guess you figured that I meant the center would be fine with the avr....

Or repurpose the Rega to another room? It's what I do with all my older gear, set up another room....almost out of rooms :)
I’m just gonna leave things for now. Just watched Aquaman pretty loud and nothing skipped a beat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top