$5,500 Denon AVR-5308CI vs. $700 Emotiva UMC-1

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We all know how tricky HDMI signals can be sometimes with all that copy-protection compliant stuff.

HDMI can be great --> 1080p picture + HD Sound all in one cable. No complaints here.

But what if you have a display (TV, Projector) that only accepts Component Video or has a "handshake" issue with the HDMI Input?

This $5,500 receiver canNOT convert HDMI to Component signal at all!
It says so in the manual - it cannot convert HDMI signal to Analog Signal!

Then I was reading about the little $700 Emotiva UMC-1. It says that it can convert HDMI signal to analog Component 1080i signal!

I guess Denon didn't think of everything. They put a million out-dated Composite-Video and S-Video connectors on the receiver, but don't even allow HDMI to Component video conversion?

 

[3db]

We all know how tricky HDMI signals can be sometimes with all that copy-protection compliant stuff.

HDMI can be great --> 1080p picture + HD Sound all in one cable. No complaints here.

But what if you have a display (TV, Projector) that only accepts Component Video or has a "handshake" issue with the HDMI Input?

This $5,500 receiver canNOT convert HDMI to Component signal at all!
It says so in the manual - it cannot convert HDMI signal to Analog Signal!

Then I was reading about the little $700 Emotiva UMC-1. It says that it can convert HDMI signal to analog Component 1080i signal!

I guess Denon didn't think of everything. They put a million out-dated Composite-Video and S-Video connectors on the receiver, but don't even allow HDMI to Component video conversion?

Emotiva is the exception and not the rule. If you look at most audio receivers, they will up convert everything to 1080p thru HDMI only. Thats just the way it goes.

 

[Highbar]

I didn't think that the HDMI copy protection and all aloud converting an HDMI signal into anything else. I thought if it came in as HDMI it had to leave as HDMI.

 

[Warpdrv]

I will be interested in how this all plays out, as that would be stripping the copy protection from the source.... HDMI has made this simple fact the reason the whole industry has had so many long and drawn out table matches that have made hardware manufacturers absolutely miserable !!! That is why Preamp and receivers have taken so long to get a grasp on which format HDMI will finally end up...

Emotiva will have to answer some serious questions regarding that conversion !!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, they do make products that will convert HDMI to Component + Coaxial digital audio:

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-TO-COMP-VID-CONVERTR/dp/B000WS0DEI/ref=pd_bbs_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1237576322&sr=8-6

http://www.amazon.com/HDmi-Ypbpr-VGA-Audio-Converter/dp/B001KUSYFW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1237576322&sr=8-5

I think HDMI-to-Component conversion is a good alternative for people who have HDMI-Handshake issues on their displays.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will be interested in how this all plays out, as that would be stripping the copy protection from the source.... HDMI has made this simple fact the reason the whole industry has had so many long and drawn out table matches that have made hardware manufacturers absolutely miserable !!! That is why Preamp and receivers have taken so long to get a grasp on which format HDMI will finally end up...

Emotiva will have to answer some serious questions regarding that conversion !!!

But my Denon BD player, Toshiba HD DVD player, Sony DVD player, and Oppo SACD/DVD-A player can all output Component Video as well as HDMI.

I don't see the problem whether HDMI is converted inside the player or in the receiver/pre-pro?

 

[Jeepers]

I guess Denon didn't think of everything. They put a million out-dated Composite-Video and S-Video connectors on the receiver, but don't even allow HDMI to Component video conversion?

Maybe Denon didn't consider this to be important. Why should a receiver be able to convert almost everything ? I agree that HDMI can cause a lot of issues and these should be solved first.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe Denon didn't consider this to be important. Why should a receiver be able to convert almost everything ? I agree that HDMI can cause a lot of issues and these should be solved first.

But they thought that EIGHT composite video & EIGHT s-video inputs are important?

Let's see, you can afford a $5,500 receiver, but you are still using composite video?

Knowing that HDMI gives plenty of people hell, they didn't think it was important for alternatives?

Like another Hi-Def 1080i video alternative such as Component analog?

 

[Jeepers]

But they thought that EIGHT composite video & EIGHT s-video inputs are important?

Let's see, you can afford a $5,500 receiver, but you are still using composite video?

Knowing that HDMI gives plenty of people hell, they didn't think it was important for alternatives?

Like another Hi-Def 1080i video alternative such as Component analog?

I agree with you on this and actually I consider the composite and s-video inputs as a waste. Probably Denon was competing with Yahama's Z11 which also has a lot of these (not 8 of each) useless inputs.

As for the HDMI issues; maybe Denon's next flagship might have that feature in case a lot of people consider this to important as long as the HDMI issues aren't solved. The Z11's video processing isn't what it is supposed to be for a flagship and this was taken care of by the Z7.

As already mentioned in another post, apparently Emotiva is the exception and not the rule. I don't think you should expect from a flagship to have all the features. Would you be willing to trade the audio/video performance of the 5308 to the $700 Emotiva just because it can convert HDMI to Component signal ?

 

[Shock]

But they thought that EIGHT composite video & EIGHT s-video inputs are important?

Let's see, you can afford a $5,500 receiver, but you are still using composite video?

Knowing that HDMI gives plenty of people hell, they didn't think it was important for alternatives?

Like another Hi-Def 1080i video alternative such as Component analog?

There will always be composite connections on receivers......always.

 

[Warlan]

Why would you spend $5000 on a receiver then downconvert from HDMI to analog?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why would you spend $5000 on a receiver then downconvert from HDMI to analog?

Because my $7,000 1080p projector has "handshake" issues with my Toshiba HD-XA1.

Component Video may be "analog", but it is fully capable of delivering 1080p resolution picture.

Just because it is "analog" does not mean it is inferior - it just means it does not have any of that "handshake" issues that HDMI has.

My projector seems to love the HDMI from my $2000 Denon blu-ray player and my HTPC (both are HDMI v1.3).

But it does not like the HDMI from my Toshiba HD DVD player, Sony DVD player, & Oppo SACD player, which are v1.0, v1.1, or v1.2.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Would you be willing to trade the audio/video performance of the 5308 to the $700 Emotiva just because it can convert HDMI to Component signal ?

No, I would just use component cables.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There will always be composite connections on receivers......always.

Yeah, sure. But why EIGHT of them on a receiver?

Just put 2 composite, 2 S-video, and save the space for even more HDMI & Component.

 

[tn001d]

I am not sure why a you are making a big deal here. Just use the component cables from the equipment that has HDMI issues and let your Denon do the 1080i - 1080p conversion.

If you must use HDMI then a a simple solution maybe to update your XA1 to a HD35. You can find them for around $200-250.

 

[Warlan]

Because my $7,000 1080p projector has "handshake" issues with my Toshiba HD-XA1.

So because your player has handshake issues with your projector it is somehow a fault of the receiver? That makes zero sense.

Component Video may be "analog", but it is fully capable of delivering 1080p resolution picture.

Just because it is "analog" does not mean it is inferior - it just means it does not have any of that "handshake" issues that HDMI has.

If the source is digital and you are converting it to analog it is inferior. Granted, the difference may not be noticeable at 10feet away.

My projector seems to love the HDMI from my $2000 Denon blu-ray player and my HTPC (both are HDMI v1.3).

But it does not like the HDMI from my Toshiba HD DVD player, Sony DVD player, & Oppo SACD player, which are v1.0, v1.1, or v1.2.

So it sounds like the problem is your projector or your non v1.3HDMI players. I would assume these players all have components out, so why not just use those if 'downgrading' your signal isn't an issue?

Honestly, not seeing why you are faulting a receiver when the problem is the compatibility of your projector with older versions of HDMI. Maybe you should make a thread that says 'My $7000 Projector sucks because it doesn't handshake well with older versions of HDMI'. Just a thought...

 

[djreef]

The problem is that he wants to have his cake and eat it. Hell, if I spent that kind of $ on a receiver I would, too.

I think the point is why would a $700 unit do something that a $5500 can't. I dunno.

DJ

 

[bandphan]

So because your player has handshake issues with your projector it is somehow a fault of the receiver? That makes zero sense.
Re Read the problem

If the source is digital and you are converting it to analog it is inferior. Granted, the difference may not be noticeable at 10feet away.


So it sounds like the problem is your projector or your non v1.3HDMI players. I would assume these players all have components out, so why not just use those if 'downgrading' your signal isn't an issue?

Honestly, not seeing why you are faulting a receiver when the problem is the compatibility of your projector with older versions of HDMI. Maybe you should make a thread that says 'My $7000 Projector sucks because it doesn't handshake well with older versions of HDMI'. Just a thought...

Just a newb eh? I completely get what he is saying. BTW do you hear digital? and other than deep color support (which most do not have a capable display) component is just as good as hdmi, saying that it isnt the only confusing part of this thread.

 

[Warlan]

Probably because one was released over a year ago and the other hasn't been released yet. That and the real problem is with his projector with awful backward compatibility. I'd be wondering more why my $7000 projector can't play well with older HDMI sources.

 

[Warlan]

Just a newb eh?

Newb? My post count has hardly anything to do with my knowledge of audio/video.

I completely get what he is saying.

I do too. I just think his blame is misplaced.

BTW do you hear digital? and other than deep color support (which most do not have a capable display) component is just as good as hdmi, saying that it isnt the only confusing part of this thread.

So you are claiming going from a digital source and remaining digital through to the output is not better than going from a digital source and converting it to analog one more time then back to digital? And sorry, but last I checked 1080p via HDMI is better than 1080i via component. Newb indeed.