5.1 Setup with receiver under $1000

[skeletor6]

Hello, I've been doing some research and saved up money for about a year now and I'm ready to buy my first speaker set up. I know $1000 isn't alot compared to what alot of other setups I've seen here on the forums, but it is all I'm able to do.

To start off I'll attach a diagram of the room that they will go in. Only half of the room is actually being utilized and it must be this way due to an old 65" tv that is not being used due to its incompatibility with my HTPC. The red and orange rectangles are the places where the viewing/listening will be done. The TV rests on a computer desk. There is a ledge that is about 4 ft high that runs around the whole back and side walls where the red rectangle is located.

Primary uses are for movies and gaming. Most movies I watch are action and so are the games. I live in a house so excessive noise is not an issue. After doing some research and recommendations from other threads what I've come up with so far is the following equipment.

Fronts: $170
Infinity Primus p162 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P162BG/Infinity-Primus-P162-Black-grille.html?search=primus

Rears: $150
P152 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P152BG/Infinity-Primus-P152.html?search=primus

Center: $200
Infinity PC350 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108PC350BG/Infinity-PC350-Black-grille.html?search=primus

Sub: $182
Bic f-12 http://www.provantage.com/bic-america-f12~7BICA003.htm

Receiver: $217
Onkyo TX-SR508 http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=ONKTXSR508

$170+$150+$217+$200+$182 = $919

Thanks, All comments/recommendations are welcome!

 

[sholling]

That's a pretty good setup so I'll just toss out a couple of ideas. First the last time I checked Amazon had this years P163 and P153 for the same prices as last years P162 and P153. Second you could go with a smaller PC251 center and put that $50 some place else like a toward bit better receiver. Total $1001.

The only part that I haven't heard is the subwoofer but they seem to have a lot of fans.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I agree with sholling re changing 1x2 to 1x3 models and smaller center.
But I think that you should change the AVR to Onkyo TX-SR707
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR707/Onkyo-TX-SR707-Thx-Select2-Plus-100-watts-channel-7.2-Receiver/1.html
Due to 7.1 pre-outs (if you ever decide to use hard to drive speakers)

BIC subs are ok... BUT
and thou it'll be budget breaker - I think you'd need a better sub: ed A2 - 300
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407

or if you don't mind IKEA like assembly :
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770

 

[skeletor6]

That's a pretty good setup so I'll just toss out a couple of ideas. First the last time I checked Amazon had this years P163 and P153 for the same prices as last years P162 and P153. Second you could go with a smaller PC251 center and put that $50 some place else like a toward bit better receiver. Total $1001.

The only part that I haven't heard is the subwoofer but they seem to have a lot of fans.

Thank you! Did not even have a clue I could get the next model up for the same price. Do you have any recommendations as for subs that could be around this price range? From what I've read in other forums the Bic F-12 seems to get recommended alot for its price range.

I agree with sholling re changing 1x2 to 1x3 models and smaller center.
But I think that you should change the AVR to Onkyo TX-SR707
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR707/Onkyo-TX-SR707-Thx-Select2-Plus-100-watts-channel-7.2-Receiver/1.html
Due to 7.1 pre-outs (if you ever decide to use hard to drive speakers)

BIC subs are ok... BUT
and thou it'll be budget breaker - I think you'd need a better sub: ed A2 - 300
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407

or if you don't mind IKEA like assembly :
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770

So definitely change my receiver because of the pre-outs because in case in the future I want to buy an amp and speakers that need more power? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

I was wondering what the added advantage of going with the "ed A2 - 300" and the IKEA one mentioned would give. And also the difference between the two. In other words, would my set up be lacking if it did not have the aforementioned subs?

On another thought, what do you guys think of the room I'll be putting it in and problems that may arise with sound distribution. In most cases, I will be sitting at the computer desk roughly 2 feet from the center at ear level. (labeled in orange). And when i watch movies I'll be at the red section which is a couch which will most likely be not very far from the rears and compared to the fronts and center.

Basically, I'd be placing the speakers to cover half of the room. And from what I've read the room can have a vast effect on how well the audio environment is.

Thanks to both of you for your replies. They are very much apprectiated and already upgraded 4 speakers without added cost.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thank you! Did not even have a clue I could get the next model up for the same price. Do you have any recommendations as for subs that could be around this price range? From what I've read in other forums the Bic F-12 seems to get recommended alot for its price range.



So definitely change my receiver because of the pre-outs because in case in the future I want to buy an amp and speakers that need more power? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

I was wondering what the added advantage of going with the "ed A2 - 300" and the IKEA one mentioned would give. And also the difference between the two. In other words, would my set up be lacking if it did not have the aforementioned subs?

On another thought, what do you guys think of the room I'll be putting it in and problems that may arise with sound distribution. In most cases, I will be sitting at the computer desk roughly 2 feet from the center at ear level. (labeled in orange). And when i watch movies I'll be at the red section which is a couch which will most likely be not very far from the rears and compared to the fronts and center.

Basically, I'd be placing the speakers to cover half of the room. And from what I've read the room can have a vast effect on how well the audio environment is.

Thanks to both of you for your replies. They are very much apprectiated and already upgraded 4 speakers without added cost.

This should demonstrate the difference between bic sub and ed i suggested:
www.svsound.com/animation.cfm

The second sub is not IKEA sub , I mean it requires "some" assembly
Dayton 15" sealed sub is very good value and would easy to eq if needed

 

[skeletor6]

This should demonstrate the difference between bic sub and ed i suggested:
www.svsound.com/animation.cfm

The second sub is not IKEA sub , I mean it requires "some" assembly
Dayton 15" sealed sub is very good value and would easy to eq if needed

LOL Nice animation. If that's pretty much the difference, then I'd be foolish not to upgrade there. Keeping budget in mind, would the Dayton be a better decision for me? And how hard is it to assemble?

Does the upgraded sub hit lower frequencies with better clarity? Is that the reasons for its superiority?

 

[jonnythan]

I tried to find some measurements on the Dayton kit but couldn't, so I modeled it in WinISD instead.

It plays loud. It models as putting out in excess of 113 dB. Response is very peaky crossed over at 80 Hz, though, and the -3dB point is 40 Hz - of course at 113 dB that means you're still getting 95 dB of sound at 20 Hz. But you won't have the thing cranked all the way up anyway.

Several of these combined and EQ'd would blow your house down, but a single one is probably not the best option at this price point.

 

[skeletor6]

I tried to find some measurements on the Dayton kit but couldn't, so I modeled it in WinISD instead.

It plays loud. It models as putting out in excess of 113 dB. Response is very peaky crossed over at 80 Hz, though, and the -3dB point is 40 Hz - of course at 113 dB that means you're still getting 95 dB of sound at 20 Hz. But you won't have the thing cranked all the way up anyway.

Several of these combined and EQ'd would blow your house down, but a single one is probably not the best option at this price point.

Thank you for the specs and thoughts. What do you believe would be a better option at that price point as a single sub set up?

 

[jonnythan]

The eD seems like a good value. I might be tempted to get a Bic PL-200 or an HSU STF-2.

 

[skeletor6]

The eD seems like a good value. I might be tempted to get a Bic PL-200 or an HSU STF-2.

Thank you for your help! I dont know how to compare subwoofers. Between the three I see the eD and PL-200 are 12'' and the HSU STF-2 is 10''.

What are the main differences between the three seeing that they all are around the same price point and the eD being the most expensive?

 

[jonnythan]

That's really tough to quantify without having actual independent measurements to look at. They'll all have their own response curves, power compression, group delay, maximum output, distortion, etc.

Going by gut feel based on brand reputation and measurements of other subs I've seen, I'd say that the eD will have the most output while still having relatively flat response and a decently tight sound. The HSU will probably have a similar character, but, due to its smaller driver, not quite as much volume. The Bic will approach the eD in terms of volume but will sound looser and less accurate.

 

[shadyJ]

I would stick with the C351 center instead of downgrading to the C251. The mid range woofers from Infinity have a great reputation, and its worth the upgrade in my opinion. Also, I would say to scrap the subwoofer and just get the P363 towers. Another worthwhile upgrade, the towers are too good not to have. And then save up, and do the subwoofer right. The subs you are looking at aren't bad but, again in my opinion, subs don't turn serious for home theater until around the $600 mark. There you have the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, Hsu VTF2 mk3, and Elemental Designs A3-300, all of which are beasts. I think these changes will be a big step up for your home theater.

 

[jonnythan]

I would stick with the C351 center instead of downgrading to the C251. The mid range woofers from Infinity have a great reputation, and its worth the upgrade in my opinion. Also, I would say to scrap the subwoofer and just get the P363 towers. Another worthwhile upgrade, the towers are too good not to have. And then save up, and do the subwoofer right. The subs you are looking at aren't bad but, again in my opinion, subs don't turn serious for home theater until around the $600 mark. There you have the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, Hsu VTF2 mk3, and Elemental Designs A3-300, all of which are beasts. I think these changes will be a big step up for your home theater.

No way, especially not with a lower-end receiver. With those towers getting a full-range signal, so much amp power is going to be going into reproducing bass you're going to be choking.

It might not be a bad idea to just stick it through with the bookshelves for now. Another idea is to get the STF-2 or A2-300 and then just add another at some future point in time.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thank you for your help! I dont know how to compare subwoofers. Between the three I see the eD and PL-200 are 12'' and the HSU STF-2 is 10''.

What are the main differences between the three seeing that they all are around the same price point and the eD being the most expensive?

The biggest difference is bass extension - A2-300 is rated at 20Hz FR - (18-100Hz +/-3dB)

This is very serious claim for such inexpensive sub. In addition eD is built using better materials that pl-200 - yes I know Dr. Hsu helped to design this sub, but it doesn't make it great - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1350479

STF-2 is a good sub, but it has it's limits - I think in your mid sized room stf-2 might not be enough - it's pretty musical subs for smaller rooms.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I would stick with the C351 center instead of downgrading to the C251. The mid range woofers from Infinity have a great reputation, and its worth the upgrade in my opinion. Also, I would say to scrap the subwoofer and just get the P363 towers. Another worthwhile upgrade, the towers are too good not to have. And then save up, and do the subwoofer right. The subs you are looking at aren't bad but, again in my opinion, subs don't turn serious for home theater until around the $600 mark. There you have the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, Hsu VTF2 mk3, and Elemental Designs A3-300, all of which are beasts. I think these changes will be a big step up for your home theater.

"Scrape the sub" - that's the worst Idea I heard today. Yes, P363 towers for fronts and P351 center would be better but then again I'm sure that Revel fronts would be even better, but there is no budget for ether.
2x P163 + 2 x 153 + C251 + $400-500 vented sub is the way to go to get a around balanced system at around $1200-1300 for HT.

 

[its phillip]

jonnythan is right about the P363s presenting a difficult load for entry level receivers, unless much has changed from the P360:

 

[skeletor6]

No way, especially not with a lower-end receiver. With those towers getting a full-range signal, so much amp power is going to be going into reproducing bass you're going to be choking.

It might not be a bad idea to just stick it through with the bookshelves for now. Another idea is to get the STF-2 or A2-300 and then just add another at some future point in time.

Okay, I think with my budget that's what I'm going to have to do. What are the downfalls of the p163's? And thanks for straying me away from the p363 idea it was a nice comment, but outside of my budget.

"Scrape the sub" - that's the worst Idea I heard today. Yes, P363 towers for fronts and P351 center would be better but then again I'm sure that Revel fronts would be even better, but there is no budget for ether.
2x P163 + 2 x 153 + C251 + $400-500 vented sub is the way to go to get a around balanced system at around $1200-1300 for HT.

Unless there is any other better optionhttp://stores.nextag.com/cart/view?date=Fri%20Sep%2016%2011:15:46%20PDT%202011&date=Fri+Sep+16+11%3A15%3A46+PDT+2011s....this is the way I'm going to go.

So to summarize here is the set up.

Fronts: 2x P163 $171
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-Two-way-Bookshelf-Satellite/dp/B0045NCB32

Rears: 2x 153 $150
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-Two-Way-Bookshelf-Satellite/dp/B004649W1Y

Center: C251 $150
http://stores.nextag.com/cart/view?date=Fri%20Sep%2016%2011:15:46%20PDT%202011&date=Fri+Sep+16+11%3A15%3A46+PDT+2011
(I can't find anywhere else to find the c251?)

Sub: eD A2-300 $450
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR707 (refurbished) $347
http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=ONKTXSR707

Total = $1268

It's a little over budget but upgrades seemed necessary. Only questions I have left is if it is okay to buy the receiver refurbished and a good place to buy the c251?

Thanks to everybody! I really appreciate the help and greater utility in my money spent.

 

[its phillip]

wwstereo has the PC251 for that same price:
http://www.wwstereo.com/website/ecommerce/productline.aspx?manufacturer=INFINITY

 

[skeletor6]

wwstereo has the PC251 for that same price:
http://www.wwstereo.com/website/ecommerce/productline.aspx?manufacturer=INFINITY

okay thank you

 

[jonnythan]

I would recommend against the 707. It does have preouts, but more importantly it lacks support for HDMI 1.4 (which is required for 3D among other things). I personally don't think preouts are a big deal and would get the 509 (or 608 if you want to upgrade to 7 channels and analog-HDMI upconversion). Or you can get a Yamaha v667, A800, or Pioneer 921 that gets you both, but at $390 shipped from Amazon. The Yamaha A700 is $360.